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The big place where I think handguns easily show superiority to long guns is in personal protection. Handguns can fit into purses and any would be rapist suddenly has a very hard time. There is a decent bit evidence suggesting that the use of a handgun is the best choice to make in a rape scenario, leading to the lowest rates of penetration and injury. While I think it would be sexy as hell for women to routinely carry some bigass guns; if they have to work in bad areas I think a concealed handgun is perfectly justifiable and functionally superior.

Darth Wong wrote:

StimNeuro wrote:Actually, you would have to improve police response time in remote areas, which would require some change to infrastructure. I'm a small guy (130lbs) and I live pretty far out from a city. If someone decides to break through a window and come into my house, it'll take a good 15 minutes for the police to show up.

Then you grab your shotgun. There's still no need for a handgun.

I know, I've had the alarm go off multiple times over the past 10 years and they've always taken about that long to get there. If a burglar comes in and is armed with nothing more than knife, there's not much I can do to him while I wait for the police to arrive. A handgun would make the best defense in my situation, because the structure of the house makes it very difficult to rifle or shotgun. The pistol's smaller size makes it ideal for home defense.

Oh puh-lease, the idea that anything bigger than a handgun won't be effective in home defense is ridiculous.

no the whole arguement for handguns is that small caliber pistols are needed by women and men without upper body strength so that they would be able to defend them selves against much larger male predator types. of course since if your not intimidated by the size of the weapon, and can fire it reasonably well, it shouldn't be to hard to defend one's self.

Darth Wong wrote:Then you grab your shotgun. There's still no need for a handgun.

Penetration has a non-porn definition as well....

Faqa wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Then you grab your shotgun. There's still no need for a handgun.

Penetration has a non-porn definition as well....

Are you trying to tell me shotshell will have a higher penetration than pistol rounds?

however a shotgun with rocksalt, or beanbag load, the guy may not be dead, but he sure will fucking wish he was.....

Darth Wong wrote:

StimNeuro wrote:Actually, you would have to improve police response time in remote areas, which would require some change to infrastructure. I'm a small guy (130lbs) and I live pretty far out from a city. If someone decides to break through a window and come into my house, it'll take a good 15 minutes for the police to show up.

Then you grab your shotgun. There's still no need for a handgun.

I know, I've had the alarm go off multiple times over the past 10 years and they've always taken about that long to get there. If a burglar comes in and is armed with nothing more than knife, there's not much I can do to him while I wait for the police to arrive. A handgun would make the best defense in my situation, because the structure of the house makes it very difficult to rifle or shotgun. The pistol's smaller size makes it ideal for home defense.

Oh puh-lease, the idea that anything bigger than a handgun won't be effective in home defense is ridiculous.

The handgun is still more effective in tight quarters due to it's smaller size. I never completely discounted the shotgun, but given the choice, in my home at least, I'm taking the pistol because it can go more places, more easily than a shotgun.

Darth Wong wrote:Oh puh-lease, the idea that anything bigger than a handgun won't be effective in home defense is ridiculous.

Shotguns actually make very effective weapons for defending one's self. In a best case scenario, I'd stay in my room with my shotgun pointed at the door and the police on the phone.

The issue that worries me is when a person defending their home needs to leave the "safety" of his room. This is mostly an issue when you have children in the house. So, if a person needs to make his/her way to the kids room, you have to ask yourself what you feel comfortable walking out there with.

My Mossberg is just too long for me to feel comfortable wielding in my house. It's got 4 feet off my shoulder. Sure, I could talk tough and claim that if a guy grabbed the barrel, I could swing it and pop him with the stock, but I'd rather keep things simple. A pistol allows me to keep one hand free, and still fend off an attacker.

So, if the guy is at a distance: the shotgun and pistol are both good bets.
If he gets in close, the shotgun isn't nearly as useful.

Granted, I think anyone concerned with home defense needs to own a good pump shotgun. Preferably, the shortest barrel you can legally obtain. Criminals know that sound. Hell, I don't know one person that can't identify the sound of a shotgun being pumped. But if he decides to call my "bluff" and stay around, I'd rather have my pistol to fight with.

I own a few guns and I enjoy them, and I think that everyone should be taught basic gun safety in school so that even if they don't ever intend to own one they should know how to check it and unload/safe it without hurting themselves out of ignorance. A day or two at a range would be good too, so people understand what kind of responsibility it is, as well as what it can-- and most importantly cannot-- do.

But that's just me.

I carry a pistol because it is the handiest tool for self-defense. My favorite, however, is the military style rifle, of which I own a civilian model AR-15 and AK-47 ("civilian" meaning they are semi-automatic, not full automatic). My penchant for the rifle is mostly due to familiarity; I never fired a weapon as a kid and so the Army taught me everything about them.

I currently own a Remington 30-06, and have a hunting license. Need a better scope. Considering, getting a handgun, because damn if they aren't fun to shoot, and unlike some of you, on 40 acres with nobody else on the other 80, I can just step out my back door and walk a few yards to be shooting. I live on the eastern plains of Colorado right now. Colorado has quite a bit of wildlife, I've seen Coyotes and Pronghorn Antelope from my porch. Also, the great state of Colorado allows conceal and carry permits
Edit: I agree with Coyote on the importance of gun safety training. That's one of the reasons I got a hunting license was for the hunter's safety course.

My apologies in advanced for not reading the first seven pages of this thread.


I carried a loaded weapon, round in the chamber, safety off, while in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm glad I had it then. Never in all my time in the US did I ever feel I needed a weapon, even while transiting the shadier sides of DC and New Orleans. And I'm not a hunter (nothing against it, just not my thing). I'm not going to get into the politics of gun control, but I will answer the question posed in the topic:

No, and that probably won't change any time soon.

I consider the ownership of a gun every day directly after work. Then I realize that killing those fucking shit-monkeying asshats of customers that show up just isn't worth the resulting imprisonment.

Military and law enforcement only, IMO.

If I lived in some kind of post-apocalyptic inner city slum where a shotgun was required for day-to-day survival, the money to buy said shotgun should go towards a bus ticket instead.

Everyone in my family has grown up with guns. We were all taught early on about safety and had it reinforced. I own several shotguns, rifles, and several bows. I mostly hunt with my homemade Yew Bow as I like the greater challenge.

God I love America

Given the comments I'm hearing about theoretical tactical advantages, I'd love to know what the statistics are on tactical maneuverability actually being a major factor in home-defense situations in the USA. How many times do you hear of an armed homeowner being killed by an intruder because his shotgun was too long for close-in fighting? It sounds to me like people are just looking for excuses to justify a preference.

I personally would rather have a shotgun over any other gun for home defense. Just pump it once and chances are the asshole in your house is running the other way. The cool thing about that is because you never had to fire your weapon you don't have to deal with bullet holes in the sheetrock, or blood stains on the furniture.

Darth Wong wrote:Given the comments I'm hearing about theoretical tactical advantages... It sounds to me like people are just looking for excuses to justify a preference.

DW, this is true of all weapon comparisons-- whether it is a shotgun vs. pistol for home defense; or AK vs. M16; 5.56 vs. 7.62, 9mm vs. .45..... all the opinions and 'research' are typically people who have a personal preference and enough technical background and know-how to write up an article on why their choice rawks and the others suxxorz.

The best gun for home defense, if it ever comes to it, is whatever gun you know and are familiar and comfortable with. If that means Grampaw's old deer rifle, then so be it. It's better than trying to learn a wholly new weapon in the blink of an eye at what could be the most important moment of your life (and someone else's).

Darth Wong wrote:Given the comments I'm hearing about theoretical tactical advantages, I'd love to know what the statistics are on tactical maneuverability actually being a major factor in home-defense situations in the USA. How many times do you hear of an armed homeowner being killed by an intruder because his shotgun was too long for close-in fighting? It sounds to me like people are just looking for excuses to justify a preference.

Not very often I'd bet because if the criminal realizes you are serious, he's not going to risk getting blown away by going for your 12 gauge or your 9mm pistol.
OTOH, if he thinks that you are mentally unable to pull the trigger on him, it doesn't matter what gun you have as he'll take it away while you hesitate.

The advice I give anyone who asks me* about which gun to use for home defense is to ask them in fairly graphic terms if they honestly think they could kill another human being in self defense.
If the answer is 'no', I tell them to forget about a gun because it'd just get taken away from them.
If 'yes', then we discuss specifics about which gun and the training necessary to be safe and effective with it.



*I'm known as a 'gun guy' at work, and I've had several people, including a few women, ask me about which gun to buy.