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Norseman wrote:Sino-Mongol-Manchu

Eh what?

Beowulf wrote:

Norseman wrote:Sino-Mongol-Manchu

Eh what?

Stas' latest post, that town he mentions is right next to all three of them

Someone brought up the question to me in IMs and is prompting me to bring it up here.

Everyone is aware that an infantry division would have some organic artillery, right? Primarily 75mm and 105mm range field pieces, maybe even a battery or two of 125mm.

I suspect President Dupont is going to endure quite a few barbs thrown his way in the coming days...

Steve wrote:I suspect President Dupont is going to endure quite a few barbs thrown his way in the coming days...

Probably, yes. But no more than Sanger is going to get for suggesting it in the first place, and there really wasn't any other honorable thing to do.

Yeah. Just as long as you two RP logical reactions from certain quarters it's fine.

That said, French revanchism may also be directed northeasterly toward those Communists that conquered so much of your African empire.

Reichkanzler Sänger, I shall be proud to award you with the Grand Dominion's Highest Honour.

*pins medal*

The Double-Cross!

Ahhh, there now. I believe I have all my bases covered in that last post. Time to get on with that OOB I've been neglecting..

Steve wrote:Someone brought up the question to me in IMs and is prompting me to bring it up here.

Everyone is aware that an infantry division would have some organic artillery, right? Primarily 75mm and 105mm range field pieces, maybe even a battery or two of 125mm.

Yes I am aware of that and I decided I wanted Chilitina to have an army with a lot of artillery. It is a way to increase the hitting power against the populous nations to my north. If i have strayed into the realm of ridiculousness in the number of my guns though, I can certainly reduce the number in my army.

Shep, while you may certainly be among world leaders in chemistry and make some breakthroughs, there are a number of countries who could still be superior to you in various ways.

Steve wrote:Shep, while you may certainly be among world leaders in chemistry and make some breakthroughs, there are a number of countries who could still be superior to you in various ways.

I think that was more a rah-rah moment Steve.

Just keeping you two honest. Full-time job, I swear.

Steve wrote:Shep, while you may certainly be among world leaders in chemistry and make some breakthroughs, there are a number of countries who could still be superior to you in various ways.

Despite large-scale government support of the dye and chemical industry in Sheppoland?

It took WWI for example, for the British to begin supporting their dye and chemical industry seriously, with the formation of ICI.

The 1913 war between Sheppo and Goddamns caused an enormous boom in basic research in the chemical industry in both countries, which is now only just coming online in brand new giganto-plants that can produce obscene quantities of mustard each day, and brand new research labs full of scientists finding new ways to kill their fellow man. We've basically vaulted from the middling middle to at least the top 5 to 7 of countries in world chemical research.

The Russo-Polish war forced Tukhachevsky to the ideas of mass chemical warfare from the start (like IRL). Hey to chemistry. Too bad Tsar Russia wasn't exactly top of the line here...

Incidentally, I want to ask of Beowulf and Bluewolf, what is the status of Chinese Eastern Railway? It was probably seized, or not Russian in the first place? Or not even built?

I imagine Mongolia is not too shabby on chemistry, seeing as we have enormous industrial capacity and have had it for decades by this point.

I don't oppose you in the top 5 or so. But best? Uh uh.

And Akhlut, why all the artillery "divisions"?

Jesus Christ, if I knew people were going to go hogwild on artillery brigades I'd have limited them as I did tanks and motorized units. Maybe I should....

Seriously, attach them to Corps and Divisions, don't make them divisions of their own.

Stas Bush wrote:Incidentally, I want to ask of Beowulf and Bluewolf, what is the status of Chinese Eastern Railway? It was probably seized, or not Russian in the first place? Or not even built?

Most of it exists, but not built by the Russians. I'm not sure about the westernmost section (between Hailar and Chita).

Steve wrote:I don't oppose you in the top 5 or so. But best? Uh uh.

And Akhlut, why all the artillery "divisions"?

Jesus Christ, if I knew people were going to go hogwild on artillery brigades I'd have limited them as I did tanks and motorized units. Maybe I should....

Seriously, attach them to Corps and Divisions, don't make them divisions of their own.

Mea culpa, I'll redo it, that was just the initial draft.

Sorry for snapping. I think maybe it's time to sleep.

I was thinking that Portugal doesn't use as much integrated artillery support as other nations do* and thus has dedicated artillery divisions. These divisions are rarely fielded as a large unit however, and instead are attached to infantry or tank divisions. This has the disadvantage of infantry companies lacking organic fire support but means in general Portuguese artillerymen are well trained and equipped as they are seen as a vital and dedicated force.

*Not sure how many guns a typical division of 15,000 men should have, but I'd have likely half of that and only light guns at that.

Norade wrote:I was thinking that Portugal doesn't use as much integrated artillery support as other nations do* and thus has dedicated artillery divisions. These divisions are rarely fielded as a large unit however, and instead are attached to infantry or tank divisions. This has the disadvantage of infantry companies lacking organic fire support but means in general Portuguese artillerymen are well trained and equipped as they are seen as a vital and dedicated force.

*Not sure how many guns a typical division of 15,000 men should have, but I'd have likely half of that and only light guns at that.

Something like an artillery brigade would be more appropriate as a divisional-level attachment, I think.

My OOB (land forces) has been posted. Any objections?

An artillery brigade should be a corps level attachment. Another one to three would be found at the Army level; additional ones might be held at the level of army group or more likely allocated to the supreme command to use as strategic assets as army groups usually don’t exist in peacetime. Other then some very short lived Nazi experiments only the Russians ever used artillery divisions and they were Army Group/Front level assets. Post WW2 the ratio was 1 per front though during the war it could be three or four if the front had a major offensive role to play.

Regardless of calibers it was the corps artillery that did most of the heavy lifting in combat, shooting country battery and interdiction missions as well as providing the oomph for major attacks. Divisional level guns primarily fired for missions of only immediate importance to the division, which usually meant some kind of direct support role or call fire. Army level guns basically slotted in alongside the corps weapons.

Keep in mind that however many artillery pieces you have, you are still limited by how much ammo you can produce and how many spare barrels you have (a large portion of total production in war would go into rearming existing guns, because they get worn out and when you fire millions of shells some are bound to explode in the bore and wreck barrels). Huge artillery forces would have lower states of training, and take much longer to equip with radios and motorize. Though of course on the latter two subjects, only the British and US reached a standard of full motorization and full scale implementation of radio based fire control before the end of WW2.

Czechmate wrote:

Norade wrote:I was thinking that Portugal doesn't use as much integrated artillery support as other nations do* and thus has dedicated artillery divisions. These divisions are rarely fielded as a large unit however, and instead are attached to infantry or tank divisions. This has the disadvantage of infantry companies lacking organic fire support but means in general Portuguese artillerymen are well trained and equipped as they are seen as a vital and dedicated force.

*Not sure how many guns a typical division of 15,000 men should have, but I'd have likely half of that and only light guns at that.

Something like an artillery brigade would be more appropriate as a divisional-level attachment, I think.

Indeed, I was more meaning to say that they are parted out as needed sometimes as a brigade, sometimes as low as a quarter of a brigade.

Also, what are we using for tank designs? I was thinking of still using the a Portuguese version of British Mark VIII as my main tank, but wanted to know what the limits are for either designing our own tanks or picking a historical design.

Tanks should be historical or direct variations of historical designs. The 1920s is really not a good time to go and mass produce a tank anyway, like aircraft what could be done was highly restricted by the low power of gasoline and diesel engines. So coming out with a new tank every single year makes more sense then committing to mass production, unless you intend to start a war shortly after. Otherwise in five years everything is obsolete. In the interim, .50cal anti tank rifles and anti tank machine guns can provide a robust anti tank defence at moderate cost. In real life in 1925 the only tank around you needed a real anti tank gun to kill was the Char 2C, which was more of a Maus pattern mobile fort then a serious combat tank.