StarDestroyer.Net BBS

If you really want us to actually have a chance, might as well make us all Space Marines. So we can stay disease-free, eat not-so-edible foods, not really require sleep, have built-in armor, and all that fun stuff. Not much short of that is going to work.

That'd actually be pretty cool. Being a Space Marine in Medieval times.

Maybe like one in ten of us can have a Babel Fish or something so we can have some sort of contact with the world outside Fortress SDN?

I think we might be better off on a mediterranean island, somewhere like Ibiza or Formentera (a name derived from the latin word for grain - which possibly bodes well). If we got good at boat and net building we should be able to get plenty of fish, and the climate would be nice enough. The Pine Islands were under the Moors at that stage I believe, so we'd have the advantages that go along with that.

Some of those with engineering background, and students of history, warfare and nautical stuff could probably design much more advanced vessels than those used by others at the time, if we can get the carpentry going well enough.

I think an island like this would be easier to defend if it came to that, and we could probably still grow some things during the relatively mild winter. I'm sure that being slightly more isolated would help considering how strange we'd all seem.

Regarding the scenario - I think it would be more interesting if we didnt get to bring anything with us, but instead had a year's worth of forewarning to learn skills and prepare ourselves mentally and physically. I'd be very keen to spend time learning horseriding, as much as I can about blacksmithing, fencing and other martial arts, and history etc.

Couldn't we all bring back a piece of a piece machinery to help with industry. Then put it together when we get there?

If at all possible, bringing back and establishing stills should be top priority. Whiskey, Vodka, gin, grappa and other such beverages at or above 40% alcohol will hit the society of the native French barbarians like a sledgehammer and subtily.

Zor

Simple stills would not be a problem if we have somebody skilled in glass-making and glassblowing or metal-working. Besides trade an alcohol is nice disinfectant and solvent. We could try mold extracts as a substitute for antibiotics and willow (Salix sp.) extracts as a substitute for aspirin. If we could jury-rig some kind of water-powered dynamo we could try to produce some chemicals by electrolysis and If we got alkalies it would be trivial to make soap (it was almost unknown in that time, wasn't it?).

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:You know what? All you naysayers are right. Without any goal, any hope, any modern conveniences, we'd all end up killing each other in grossly unprofessional ways. THUS, I will edit the OP, but I will also post my new addition here for consideration:

NEW GOAL AND INCENTIVE: The Great Sky-Fairy has sent you back in time with a goal in mind: Improve the past while keeping as many members alive as possible. The greater advances in technology, the bigger a peaceful empire, whatever new philosophies lead to a revolution in thought all count. If you manage to successfully accomplish these things, you're reverse-aged back to whenever you left Kansas, back to where you were, with a cash bonus based on how well you did. A big one. From God. Of course, if you die on this trip, or leave the group in tatters, or abandon it entirely, God smites you hard, 'cuz he's a dick. If you die in service of the goal and the group succeeds, you get the Jesus treatment, plus money.

That should help morale problems at least.

Confound you anyway!

The SDNet community, ~4000 blithely opinionated, temporocentric anachronisms in a 750 AD French township, face-to-face unmoderated and unfettered by modern law, and my only hope for escape is to help make it work!? And not get lynched or shot in the process!??? And with a woman shortage!?!?!? We're all gonna die as horny ad-hoc teen-aged raiding parties violate the first law of any medieval foreign land; don't mess with their women, or their men will kill you. Our neighbors will be on us so fast wondering what happened to the previous occupants of the village our heads will spin as they fall.

Well, anyway its off to the nearest Amish or Hutterite enterprise for supplies and info. I'll need breeding chickens, seed, bees and beekeeping gear, farming implements, a spindle (they don't look that heavy, just awkward), a manual pottery wheel (those actually are heavy), lots of needles and thread, carpentry tools like levels and squares, assorted screws, nuts and bolts and other fasteners, pencils and sharpeners, and blacksmithing tools and a small anvil (all to augment existing included town amenities), the requisite reading materials, modern body armour, and a sword & sword maintenance kit, fishing and hunting and kitchen knives from the nearest cutlery store. My fishing rod and tackle. I could probably get my hands on a good modern blackpowder rifle and pistol. I've got a book on soapmaking and maybe one on glassmaking somewhere... warm clothing - coveralls mostly, long underwear and spare work boots, gloves, a hard hat, knee and elbow padding, camping gear, MREs, empty spare packs, toiletries and a chemical toilet.

A few axes and saws, a few chisels and wedges, lengths of chain and rope, a railroad spike or two, and whatever trinkets I figure I could barter or trade with the locals, like fluffy plush toys or something. Cordless drill, charger, and solar panels from Canadian Tire. Self-generating flashlights, several tins of coffee, and a kitchen sink with a few lengths of copper pipe, pipe bender, and a few soldering kits. Any remaining wealth I have gets converted into gold coinage.

Included for sure will be tools of the only 750 AD trade I'd truly be qualified for; a shovel and a pick. That's probably more than I could fit into 24 hours of preparation.

Upon transport, I won't be running away, as even the slightest wrong move will give me the mother of all hernias, and such injuries are not fixable by any drug. Upon depositing my gear at my flea-infested hut (oh yeah; bring bug spray and lots of it), I will be reporting to Emperor Darth Wong for duty in the hopes his management and leadership skills will translate into the era even if the rest of his engineering degree won't.

I am assuming this drug vault has medical data and disinfectants as well as drugs, including lots of sedatives and pain relievers, and fresh water, and we aren't arriving in a downpoor or the dead of winter.


Actually, Diomedes suggestion of only allowing a year's worth mental preparation sounds a lot less taxing then a bunch of people cluelessly bringing a hodgpodge of supplies in 24 hours. Any change wrought would be more genuine and lasting, coming as it were from the actual material potential of the era. All those firearms in the hands of so many people, outside the HAB, is courting disaster. Also, we all know The Shep would find a way to bring a nuke...

Anyway, a year would give me time to review every episode of Gilligan's Island and make notes.

I think we ought to make it a rule for these kinds of threads where anyone who claims they're going to march balls-first into some classical era and survive should have to demonstrate that they've spent at least a year out in the wilderness surviving on a generous supply of *modern* tools and provisions.

We'd be so totally fucked it isn't even funny. Elfdart, Lagmonster, Tevar, Broomstick, a bunch of the Mess members and myself are the only ones here I know for certain have some relevant skills that could be put to use trying to build things and generally make things work. Even among that group, without actual tools, it'd be fucking difficult. There's a fair bit I can do with a basic set of tools like knives, axes, saws, hammers, crowbars and such, but it ain't going to be pretty. Most of my relevant skill sets would come from spending my summers in the country in a setting with no electricity or running water and having to do everything by hand, from firewood to carrying water, fishing and such. Limited but somewhat useful.

Clean water would be a problem, but digging wells isn't too difficult, just a fuckload of work and then some and you need to find a suitable place.

As for location, nowhere in southern Europe, thanks very much. We'd be best off somewhere in south-central Sweden, because the climate there is tolerable and the neighbors aren't all absolute fuckwits, but we'd still need protection from the local clans. The place hadn't even been Christianized yet and we could more easily avoid being tortured to death.

The idea about raiding other places for women, we'd get stomped out so fast it isn't funny. We could probably deal with small bands of brigands because we have numbers, but any organized military expedition would wipe us out in no time flat.

As for how the community would be run, it'd have to be a dictatorship with essentially the moderators and part of the Senate in charge and the Mess and other members considered reliable as enforcers and anybody who didn't get with the program would get the shit beaten out of them until they did. Those who still refused I expect would be either exiled or just done away with just to get examples. We'd need enforced cohesion just to survive and the sort of relative freedm and leisure time we are all used to would be completely out of the question.

Language barrier would be a big problem everywhere, but the ancient Swedish language is close enough to modern that there would be something to work with for those who know any of it, me included. Finnish of the time is even closer to modern, but learning it would be a major hassle. Though you'd only have to learn the basic words and forget about grammar and it'd still work.

But all in all, thank you very much, I'd rather sit this shit out.

Edi

How many people here have even cut down a tree?

Perhaps more to the point, what was the average lifespan of someone who was born into that era? Even complete familiarity with the ways and means of that era wouldn't exactly give you a comfortable life or a high survival rating by modern standards. And if you're limited to what you can bring along with you in a backpack as per the OP, you're pretty much fucked. Now if we were allowed to engineer a fortress-city using modern technology and an unlimited budget and then teleport it to that era, we might be onto something.

I think once people realise the amount of shit you get on you, and even in your mouth while engaging in animal husbandry would be enough to send most people running home.

I grew up on a farm and know something about husbandry and also know how to butch some animals(nothing larger than a pig though) but I doubt I could do much without modern tools.
I also have some exotic skill which could be useful I can fell a tree with an axe and much more importantly move trees with a hores as my grandfather a farmer does this kinda as a hobby and I did it quite often with him(I can also plow with a horse).
I can also spinn yarn as my grandmother showed it to me, however I do not know what kind of spinning-wheel you can expect around 750 and it is rather time consumeing..

I would take as many of the "old" tools my grandfather owns as possible, stuff like the hand powered drills, saws, good knives and a good axe or two(Maybe a butchers axe?) would come in handy. I know how to use those old tools and they should be much better than the medival stuff. A modern horse harnesses and saddle would also be good. I doubt I could get my hand on a firearm in 24 hours though as it would be rather useful.
I doubt I could survive but at least I could try.

Darth Wong wrote:Perhaps more to the point, what was the average lifespan of someone who was born into that era?

I think the average lifespan is often skewed due to a high infant mortality rate, which none of the members would have to worry about.

lance wrote:
I think the average lifespan is often skewed due to a high infant mortality rate, which none of the members would have to worry about.

No but without up to date vaccinations my kids would probably get polio or some other childhood disease thats easily curable right now. I'll pass on this.

I'm just going to go find a mediaeval lass and fuck her brains out, then die happy and with fat children, hopefully sans-plague. I'm hoping the Sky Pixie will overlook my absence because of His kind heart. (har har)

I mean, what can I hope to offer? The specialist skills I know require a millennia more of science and technology and a million pound lab.

The OP says we get whatever the villagers had in terms of shelter, food and tools, so many things, including wells, will already be in place; we should have supplies for one season. It would just be a matter of upgrading and learning how things work without dying in the process. The key to success will be social organization more so than the discrete era-applicable skill sets of individual members. Engineers and scientists are trained problem solvers first, tech monkeys second, and there is a ready population of geeks-turned-grunts wanting back to an era of air conditioning, TV, and hot showers to whom manual labour will soon seem a small price to pay to get out.

The dictatorship wouldn't be any old dictatorship. A liberal corporate democratic one, medieval circumstances redefined into familiar perspectives. The entire population can read and write, and do math to varying degrees of competence, and we pretend to know the End of History; most of us live it as professional white-or-blue collar drones or children therof. Some of us have the means to convert a substantial amount of cash into gold before arrival, others have good survival ideas that only need a little time and research to realize. Assuming we can halfways defend those resources, we can bring the strengths of 21st century social organization to bear on our problems.

I would suggest the leadership incorporate; draw up a company charter and regs, from reason d'etre and succession right down to the proper form of a company memo, and an ethics charter. SDNet Inc., Company of Adventurers, Agents of Finance Banking and Commerce.

A true meritocracy, each member contributing and advancing as honestly as they can, divided into study boards, management teams, and work groups, the OP not giving any incentive to do otherwise. We'll start with simple trade and survival, keep as low a profile as possible, and with the company charter to guide us, work for world domination. Every member a wage slave, with voting share options, the Emperor and Senate having controlling interest, of course. We can convert some lead bullets to typeset for a crude printing press. Surely someone will have brought paper and ink, or knows how to make it. Official documents will have to be in Latin and English, as we are supposed to influence the locals. I can't do Latin, but as a lowly corporate serf my only concern is getting away with this long enough to collect a pension, and make the company successful enough that I can collect one...

Whatever local skills and knowledge we need, we buy in controllable amounts, from labourers, farmers and miners to mercenaries. If the drug vault is as comprehensive as it is implied to be, we will have immunization shots against many common ailments; those alone would be worth a fortune to the wealthy of the era, provided there are a few doctors and nurses in the community who know how to prescribe them.

What a disaster this would be. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to intermarry with the local townfolk. The idea of kissing a woman who grew up without the benefits of modern dentistry simply does not appeal to me.

Durandal wrote:What a disaster this would be. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to intermarry with the local townfolk. The idea of kissing a woman who grew up without the benefits of modern dentistry simply does not appeal to me.

It's funny how we take things like that for granted. A while ago I saw a porno with a girl in it who had really crooked teeth. I'm talking about teeth that looked almost like they had to be some kind of novelty item. When her mouth was closed, she was hot. Red-hot. But the minute you could see those crooked teeth ... well, let's just say that she should avoid smiling on camera.

Durandal wrote:What a disaster this would be. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to intermarry with the local townfolk. The idea of kissing a woman who grew up without the benefits of modern dentistry simply does not appeal to me.

Along the same lines, my dad has a theory on the worst thing brought over by the European explorers. Basically, the Europeans knew of refined sugar while the natives were ignorant of such things; so, the strains of bacteria which live off refined sugar appeared in Europe rather than the Americas. As a result, when the explorers found and smooched the cute native girls, they passed on the worst germ of the bunch--tooth decay.

Also, for pure amusement value-neat short story.

Frank Hipper wrote:How many people here have even cut down a tree?

"waves hand"

60 Trees with an actual axe on my Grandfather's farm over 6 years. It takes about 8 hours to do the tree in and was good exercise. Back then axe technology is far inferior to ours as they didn't have steel axes.

Durandal wrote:What a disaster this would be. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to intermarry with the local townfolk. The idea of kissing a woman who grew up without the benefits of modern dentistry simply does not appeal to me.

Actually, their teeth weren't that bad until the Black Death and refined sugar. As The Year 1000 points out, most skeletons uncovered before the late 1200s had surprisingly good teeth and they can often judge the date of burial from how straight they are.

I'd be more creeped out by the idea that I might be fucking an ancestor.

Elfdart wrote:Actually, their teeth weren't that bad until the Black Death and refined sugar. As The Year 1000 points out, most skeletons uncovered before the late 1200s had surprisingly good teeth and they can often judge the date of burial from how straight they are.

Still, it's not like they brushed or flossed. I suppose if I could bring back an unlimited supply of Listerine spray, toothbrushes and toothpaste, it might be manageable.

And even worse, there'd be no magazines to publish pictures of me!

ONce upon a time I recall something from a countrylife museum about frayed birch twigs and rags for teeth cleaning. One way of answering is surely to look at Roman methods on this? Considering all their fastidiousness, I'd have thought they had something.