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PeZook wrote:Shep, you're pretty much the only country on Earth which even uses the Firebees.

Actually, to be technical. I don't. Nobody uses them. They appeared out of nowhere, marked with nameplates saying:

AQM-34 Firebee Serial #xxxxxx
Teledyne Ryan Corporation
San Diego, California, U.S.A.

A company and country which don't exist. It's not that hard to build a drone secretly for covert operations.

Ah, right.

In other news: PUPPIES!

...we'll probably kill them with inadequate radiation shielding, faulty wiring or failing life support, but...PUPPIES!

PeZook wrote:Ah, right.

In other news: PUPPIES!

...we'll probably kill them with inadequate radiation shielding, faulty wiring or failing life support, but...PUPPIES!

They might probably die before even getting up there unless you give them oxygen masks before hand.

Or die of fright. Whichever comes first.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: They might probably die before even getting up there unless you give them oxygen masks before hand.

Or die of fright. Whichever comes first.

Feh, Laika did just fine. The G forces aren't that high.

EDIT: As for fright, see the caption below the cute picture. The "conditioning" part is there for a reason

PUPPIES!

poke poke poke

Actually, Skimmer, are you interested in sharing data from the observatory... or are those observatories for some insidious purpose.

30 x An-22s

They approached from all directions, because the An-22 has a hueg range, and even launching from Shepistan, I've got room to play with.

Launched at about 700 miles from Astarian Shores.

120 Firebees

Essentially, this means: the 1311 km max range of old-model Firebees would mean it's almost expended by the time it reaches coastline, passing over 1126 km. It could not penetrate deeper than 200 km. A 2000 km endurance Firebee could penetrate for ~900 km still.

I would assume that the 30 carrier planes, with their 50-100 m RCS, would be picked by Astarian OTH radars at extreme ranges. Envelope of several kms of course would not help targeting, but what Norse could utilize?

1) Send it's 60 Su-27s to intercept, 2 per each An-22 carrier. They have a 1500 km battle range. Utilizing their GSh-30-1 guns and 6 missiles under the wings, each Su-27 could engage both KC-22 carriers and the payloads they release, very successfully - Su-27 top speed at altitude is 2500 kph. The Su-27s radar would pick something as large as an An-22 at 100+ km away. This means that in ~24 minutes upon An-22s', the Su-27s will be to meet them in the 1100 km overseas boundary.

At what point this becomes feasible? Answer: when the An-22s are roughly 1500 km away. By the time they cover the 400 km to release drones, the Su-27s will be there to intercept.

2) Of course, the An-22s will try to release their payloads once seeing the enemy threat. It is questionable as to how many they could manage to release before th Su-27 pilots confirm that those are unmarked craft conducting attacks on Astaria and down the An-22s... Let's say the Su-27 pilots get a grip only after several minuts of contact, and all Firebees are already released.

3) Su-27s will try to kill An-22s.

4) Su-27s will fly back, trying to spot, relay data about Firebees, and kill them if possible.

6) 17 reaction groups are created. 7 priority groups and 10 non-priority. Priority groups are seven A-50 AEW&C planes guiding groups of 10-15 MiG-29s (a total of 100+ MiG-29s) in 300x300 km envelopes or even larger. 10 non-priority groups are MiG-31s joined in Hunter Packs (4 planes, 1 serving as AWACS with PESA at full power and altitude of 20+ km, 3 serving as his hunter-killers), covering areas around 200x200 km.

7) OTH radar would detect Firebees with a say 10% error. That is rather high. But only 10% of Firebees would survive as I believe, since the ones detected by OTH radars would be then pursued by the reaction groups.

Now, hunting down the remaining 10-20 Firebees would be a major pain in the ass, but there are ground installations and it's possible that Firebees will pass over several of them. ~50% at least could be downed. Thus only 10-5 Firebees remain.

Not a serious threat. An-22s... say, many would be down. They would need 15 minutes to get out of Su-27s range, and if they detect the Su-27 itself at ~30 km, there would be no chance of them outrunning the plane.

MKSheppard wrote:

Norseman wrote:There's also the problem that if you used that kind of covert action the biological agents would be all but guaranteed to spread outside of Astaria.

I was unaware that Astaria did a booming trade with the outside world.

Velaria, we DO have quite a bit of trade with Velaria. Which has quite a bit of trade with the IRT, Japanistan, etc...

As for the resultativeness of such acts with Firebee drones...

120 (initial launch): considering IADS is nonexistent, how many tons can they spray? Let's assume each can carry 500 kgs - an overestimation, but let it be so. That means 60 tons.

10 (likely to survive and pass for a sufficiently long time over Astarian airspace), how many tons can they spray? ~5 tons.

Insufficient to cause any immediate widespread damage to Astarian agriculture. Sufficient to cause disruptions in select regions, but not much more.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Actually, Skimmer, are you interested in sharing data from the observatory... or are those observatories for some insidious purpose.

They did "reserve the right to cover sensitive equipment during inspection to avoid damage"

So I guess the satellites will gather scientific data, but also spy on people to some extent. Of course, they won't be as good at it as the KH-11 series, which are essentially multi-ton space telescopes.

PeZook wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Actually, Skimmer, are you interested in sharing data from the observatory... or are those observatories for some insidious purpose.

They did "reserve the right to cover sensitive equipment during inspection to avoid damage"

So I guess the satellites will gather scientific data, but also spy on people to some extent. Of course, they won't be as good at it as the KH-11 series, which are essentially multi-ton space telescopes.

Maybe. In which case it's time to practice some serious camouflage. (Like I haven't started yet).

Cute puppies.

Fingolfin, I don't have time to make a proper post right now but consider me on board for the buoy thing.(Or whatever it was that your Admiral was suggesting.)

DarthShady wrote:Cute puppies.

Fingolfin, I don't have time to make a proper post right now but consider me on board for the buoy thing.(Or whatever it was that your Admiral was suggesting.)

Sure. In fact, it's time for an SNC meeting...

I don't have time either for dealing with biowarfare, but I'll try to get something out before I leave for Oslo (Saturday).

By the way, Shroom, you are also invited to the next SNC meeting.

PUPPIES.

You can't shoot the puppies into space where they can get hurt. I shall steal them from you!

Steve wrote:PUPPIES.

You can't shoot the puppies into space where they can get hurt. I shall steal them from you!

Well, if you are lucky, they will last as long as the Russian dog that went up into space after they return...

When can we go back to launching monkeys to space?

DarthShady wrote:When can we go back to launching monkeys to space?

Why not an elephant? *looks over at the baby elephant*

PeZook wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Actually, Skimmer, are you interested in sharing data from the observatory... or are those observatories for some insidious purpose.

They did "reserve the right to cover sensitive equipment during inspection to avoid damage"

So I guess the satellites will gather scientific data, but also spy on people to some extent. Of course, they won't be as good at it as the KH-11 series, which are essentially multi-ton space telescopes.

No of course not, Japanistan has not riddled them with surface gear and target downlinks at all! The sensitive equipment is merely the control systems, which Japanistan must protect to prevent the electronic hijacking of its spacecraft, and don’t even think about googling Galactic Radiation and Background.

So. How many GRABs will you be launching, Skimmer, and can I use them as target practice when they die?

Oh - Alaskan Cabinet Members:

Secratary for Civil Defence "I won't endorse this shelter design because I can't fit through the door!" Herman Kahn:




National Science Advisor Dr. "What?" Doctor:




Oh and I'm planning an ALBM test.

Lonestar, I just love love love Blitzschlag and the banter:

"You Livonian piece of crap Sharpe thought. "Doctor, I don't come down to your office and advise you on how to create crimes against nature, please don't tell me how to do my job…""

Sea Skimmer wrote:No of course not, Japanistan has not riddled them with surface gear and target downlinks at all! The sensitive equipment is merely the control systems, which Japanistan must protect to prevent the electronic hijacking of its spacecraft, and don’t even think about googling Galactic Radiation and Background.

Ooooook.... I take it that the telescope data is not for sharing between scientists... *authorizes grant to scientists to launch satellite*

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Ooooook.... I take it that the telescope data is not for sharing between scientists... *authorizes grant to scientists to launch satellite*

The 5% of the time when it’s pointed in a spaceward direction slightly downgraded imagery will be made public to demonstrate the triumph of Japanistani technology and advancement. These are however but interim trials systems. Japanistans real space effort awaits the competition of a testing of its own air and ground launched boosters.

OOB updated to reflect the THEL/IDB program, drone interceptors, etc.