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Ghost Rider wrote:Overall, well done. It does get to heart of the matter(as does MoO's debate with her...gotta love that "It's fun to attack a woman!" line she does throw out), that she has attacked and ignored other authors and claims that she's right in her cause and obviously everyone disagreeing are misogynist pigs.

What is sad is really none of this would happen if she would for but one second see that 3 million wouldn't work in if we invaded China, let alone the scale she's going for. Instead she ties everything to 3 million and tries to actually state that Lucas is off his rocker and really this is all one giant scam by Palpatine.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:Overall, well done. It does get to heart of the matter(as does MoO's debate with her...gotta love that "It's fun to attack a woman!" line she does throw out), that she has attacked and ignored other authors and claims that she's right in her cause and obviously everyone disagreeing are misogynist pigs.

I don't recall ever debating her. She left TFN at about the time I started discussing the whole situation, and after she left and posted those blogs of hers on SW.com I decided I had no reason to correspond with her.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:What is sad is really none of this would happen if she would for but one second see that 3 million wouldn't work in if we invaded China, let alone the scale she's going for. Instead she ties everything to 3 million and tries to actually state that Lucas is off his rocker and really this is all one giant scam by Palpatine.

Oh, but GR, she's a real life defense expert!

Master of Ossus wrote:Oh, but GR, she's a real life defense expert!

jedi_haiku (Ryan Kaufman) and I are standing by for the inevitable wave of arguments that will follow the article, but we did it to set down the continuity about the clone army and put an end to a few debates. Common sense tells me this will never happen, and that folks wouldn't find it much fun if it did. But it does give us the ability to brandish the document, repel all boarders, and yell: "Because we bloody well say so!"

Pablo Sanchez wrote:If I ever become an EU writer I'll be sure to write up a short story to establish the fact that in the Star Wars universe, 1!=1. That's right, the reflexive property of equality doesn't apply in SW. Because I bloody well say so.

And hopefully, Lucasfilm will listen to fans who DON'T want the change and we can work to defeat this initiave. I certainly will fight and write letters against any campaigns fans may make to have the changes and furthermore work actively against any I see because I think its important to keeping the feel of the Clone Wars as a primarily non-clone and non-droid war.

Stas Bush wrote:See? Clone = non-clone.

How much more anti-Lucas can one get, I wonder.. It's just sad.

Stofsk wrote:Good job man. I don't get involved in these kinds of debates because evidentally many, more capable than I, are already doing that. But still, the fact you're doing it is something to be commended.

Stas Bush wrote:

Master of Ossus... because I think its important to keeping the feel of the Clone Wars as a primarily non-clone and non-droid war.

See? Clone = non-clone.

How much more anti-Lucas can one get, I wonder.. It's just sad.

Stas Bush wrote:+http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b ... 986/p3/?71

Scroll down to bottom of page. I'm "Gross-admiral_Thrawn".

TFN member wrote:And hopefully, Lucasfilm will listen to fans who DON'T want the change and we can work to defeat this initiave.[...] because I think its important to keeping the feel of the Clone Wars as a primarily non-clone and non-droid war. They're superheroes in the war, ditto with the Jedi.

And hopefully, Lucasfilm will listen to fans who DON'T want the change and we can work to defeat this initiave.[...] because I think its important to keeping the feel of the Clone Wars as a primarily non-clone and non-droid war. They're superheroes in the war, ditto with the Jedi.

Starlog wrote:I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.

Karen Traviss wrote: Digest of my replies from yesterday: I hope nobody's ever put off asking questions. I don't mind what folks ask as long as they're prepared to hear the answers. You know why the number of clones will never work out right? Because there are a number of things already floating around that make the two ends of the equation irreconcilable using real world numbers.

We know how big Kamino is, we had existing clone numbers, but we also have mega-figures for droids. The two don't mix. But what we did know was that the war would never run its course, and so most of those droids would never see battle. So that's how we took the numbers we had and retconned them the way we did.

If you took this to its logical conclusion, the numbers of clone soldiers needed would have been many billions. Kamino is about half as big again as Earth (population 6 billion, with lots of land masses) and a waterworld. It has a billion inhabitants. So - and this is where it takes the fun out of it - real science and numbers means that they could never have produced and trained anything like that number of clones, because the infrastructure alone would have been unworkable. In fact, the whole physics and economics of them having an advanced industrial world doesn't stack up - using hard facts.

And they wouldn't have had the resources or infrastructure to create huge training and exercise areas, either. And clones produced by that method wouldn't have been functional enough as human beings to operate on the battlefield. And you can't teach everything by flash training; you need them to do it for real. And...keeping secret the supply of the hardware alone would have been impossible. And...

So...bang goes the whole clone wars thanks to reality. And that's why I get a litle impatient when I get folks flaming me about the numbers. They're being selective. They don't look at the whole equation, which is a lot more complex than dividing droids by clones!

Crown wrote:I'm sorry - but you're dead wrong. Let me rephrase;

There is no way using 'hard facts' that the island of Manhattan could support a population of 1.5 million people given it's land size ... you'd be right too, if we were moronic enough to treat the island of Manhattan as a closed system - which is the way you're treating Kamino.

But here's the thing, Manhattan isn't a closed system, it doesn't need to supply food, water, electricy, etc on it's given landmass to support its population.

Much like Kamino doesn't need to supply those things inorder to support a population greater than 6 billion - simply because in a universe where intra galactic travel is measured by the hour, no planet could be seriously analysed as a closed system.

Don't believe me? Then explain Coruscant.

Crown wrote:Honestly though, I get the impression that she's trying to convince herself more than anything - since she obviously knows those numbers are batshit insanely wrong - and is just throwing out the first thing that pops into her head as justification ... unfortunately it is by and large groundless.

I mean she does make some valid points, for example; 'In fact, the whole physics and economics of them having an advanced industrial world doesn't stack up - using hard facts.'

But this is a red herring. The fact that they are an advanced industrial world is a fait acompli in the movies, too bad for her, now she has to explain why this 'advanced industrial world' can only put out an army (and according to her claims support said army) that is in essence only twice the population of Manhattan.

I'm sorry; it's a water world! Doesn't fly, as Earth's oceans can actually support 1.5 times the population than Earth's land mass can!