StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Steve wrote:

Stas Bush wrote:

Norseman wrote:Incidentally something like HMS Dreadnaught would be *utterly* obsolete by 1925

"Obsolete" doesn't mean militarily useless. Even pre-dreadnaughts continued playing a role in WWII, either directly or having their artillery taken off-ship to be used as fortifications or assault guns, not to mention the post-Dreadnaught ships.

In the 1920s what you call the "utterly obsolete" ships (pre-dreadnaughts and first dreadnaughts) comprised a good share of folks' navies.

Hrm? As I recall the pre-dreads still around were all scrapped in the 20s, as were the first dreadnoughts.

Steve wrote:As I recall the pre-dreads still around were all scrapped in the 20s

Stas Bush wrote:Oh, certainly NO! They should only be counted as total tonnage (I even counted training ships with armament in the total tonnage). They aren't "capital ships", despite some of them serving on

Stas Bush wrote:And I suppose stuff below 150-200 tons is not counted (lower limit of warships serving my Navy, obsolete pre-1913 destroyers have this small displacement)

Thanas wrote:If they don't, wouldn't it be a bit unfair? I mean, you are committing resources to them anyway.

Offender, Duchy of California Coastal Gunboat laid down 1924

Displacement:
11,802 t light; 12,554 t standard; 12,675 t normal; 12,772 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(356.02 ft / 350.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (26.00 / 26.17 ft)
(108.51 m / 106.68 m) x 22.86 m x (7.92 / 7.98 m)

Armament:
4 - 18.00" / 457 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,940.86lbs / 1,333.95kg shells, 75 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Main guns limited to end-on fire
Weight of broadside 11,763 lbs / 5,336 kg
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m torpedoes - 1.372 t each, 8.232 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted reloads

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 195.00 ft / 59.44 m 9.30 ft / 2.83 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 104.98 ft / 32.00 m 9.30 ft / 2.83 m
50.02 ft / 15.25 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 195.00 ft / 59.44 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 195.00 ft / 59.44 m 28.51 ft / 8.69 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 5.00" / 127 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 5.00" / 127 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 10.00" / 254 mm Quarter deck: 6.00" / 152 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 14,052 shp / 10,483 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 219 tons

Complement:
596 - 776

Cost:
£4.865 million / $19.459 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,216 tons, 17.5 %
- Guns: 2,208 tons, 17.4 %
- Torpedoes: 8 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 4,872 tons, 38.4 %
- Belts: 1,705 tons, 13.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 489 tons, 3.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,079 tons, 16.4 %
- Conning Tower: 187 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 463 tons, 3.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,251 tons, 33.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 873 tons, 6.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,744 lbs / 5,780 Kg = 4.4 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.651
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Average freeboard: 14.86 ft / 4.53 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.7 %
Waterplane Area: 20,109 Square feet or 1,868 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 78 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 894 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 3.39
- Overall: 0.99
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Thanas wrote:^Steve, pre-dreads may not be scrapped due to no WNT.

In other news, here is my beauty:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I unveil to you the pride of the German Navy, the Bismarck class.

Bismarck class, Germany Battleship laid down 1925

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 380,00 ft / 115,82 m 18,00 ft / 5,49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 66% of normal length

Short facts:
- 18inch armor
- 8inch armored deck
- 9x18 inch guns
- excellent gun platform, excellent seaboat
- 25 knots maximum speed, 16 knots cruising speed (faster cruising speed than most Battlecruisers)
- great survivability. This ship can take a whopping 21-2 torpedoes and 37 18inch shells (alternatively: 72 16inch shells, 92 15inch shells, 125 14inch shells).

Raesene wrote:You have to elongate the main armour belt if you don not add secondary armour.

Ma Deuce wrote:

Raesene wrote:You have to elongate the main armour belt if you don not add secondary armour.

Yeah, that belt only covers 43% of the waterline, though thankfully the TDS is much longer. Thanas may recall I mentioned that the belt should be at least 60% of the waterline. Unfortunately, Springsharp has a somewhat confusing method for measuring belt length: The percentage shown is actually relative to what Springsharp considers a "normal" belt length, in other words a 100% belt in SS = 65% of the waterline. He's still got an extra 1,700 tons of standard displacement to work with; should be enough to rectify it without sacrificing anything else.

Bismarck class, Germany Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
55.712 t light; 58.518 t standard; 60.995 t normal; 62.977 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(934,42 ft / 885,83 ft) x 124,67 ft x (39,37 / 40,32 ft)
(284,81 m / 270,00 m) x 38,00 m x (12,00 / 12,29 m)

Armament:
9 - 18,00" / 457 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2.940,86lbs / 1.333,95kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
80 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
40 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
50 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 15.000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
50 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 28.381 lbs / 12.873 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 575,00 ft / 175,26 m 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3,00" / 76 mm 628,94 ft / 191,70 m 30,00 ft / 9,14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 12,0" / 305 mm 14,0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8,00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3,00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3,00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 20,00" / 508 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 89.796 shp / 66.988 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.459 tons

Complement:
1.939 - 2.522

Cost:
£16,364 million / $65,457 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4.527 tons, 7,4%
Armour: 24.031 tons, 39,4%
- Belts: 6.617 tons, 10,8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2.094 tons, 3,4%
- Armament: 4.730 tons, 7,8%
- Armour Deck: 9.921 tons, 16,3%
- Conning Tower: 668 tons, 1,1%
Machinery: 2.915 tons, 4,8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24.163 tons, 39,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.283 tons, 8,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0,1%
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
109.572 lbs / 49.701 Kg = 37,6 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 21,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
Metacentric height 8,9 ft / 2,7 m
Roll period: 17,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,491 / 0,495
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16,00%, 34,45 ft / 10,50 m, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m
- Forward deck: 34,00%, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m, 25,92 ft / 7,90 m
- Aft deck: 37,00%, 25,92 ft / 7,90 m, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m
- Quarter deck: 13,00%, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Average freeboard: 25,51 ft / 7,78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180,5%
Waterplane Area: 72.985 Square feet or 6.781 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 247 lbs/sq ft or 1.206 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,57
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for three aircraft carried

Agent Sorchus wrote:What can I do to increase the Composite score? note I based this ship on the Danae class light cruiser.

Niobe, Germany Light cruiser laid down 1919

Displacement:
4.350 t light; 4.523 t standard; 5.308 t normal; 5.937 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(503,00 ft / 500,00 ft) x 49,00 ft x (14,50 / 15,82 ft)
(153,31 m / 152,40 m) x 14,94 m x (4,42 / 4,82 m)

Armament:
6 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1919 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 - 2,00" / 50,8 mm 45,0 cal guns - 4,03lbs / 1,83kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 689 lbs / 312 kg
16 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 8,00 ft / 2,44 m torpedoes - 0,589 t each, 9,426 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,00" / 76 mm 408,50 ft / 124,51 m 8,40 ft / 2,56 m
Ends: 1,00" / 25 mm 81,48 ft / 24,84 m 8,40 ft / 2,56 m
10,02 ft / 3,05 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 126% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck: 1,00" / 25 mm For and Aft decks

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41.561 shp / 31.004 Kw = 29,00 kts
Range 2.350nm at 24,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.415 tons

Complement:
310 - 404

Cost:
£0,922 million / $3,687 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 203 tons, 3,8%
- Guns: 193 tons, 3,6%
- Torpedoes: 9 tons, 0,2%
Armour: 769 tons, 14,5%
- Belts: 433 tons, 8,2%
- Armament: 83 tons, 1,6%
- Armour Deck: 253 tons, 4,8%
Machinery: 1.476 tons, 27,8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.902 tons, 35,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 959 tons, 18,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6.271 lbs / 2.845 Kg = 58,1 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 13,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,523 / 0,536
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m, 14,26 ft / 4,35 m
- Average freeboard: 14,48 ft / 4,41 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,1%
Waterplane Area: 16.673 Square feet or 1.549 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 392 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,03
- Longitudinal: 0,99
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Code: Select all

CSS Ridículo, Columbian battle barge laid down 1920

Displacement:
	26 123 270 t light; 26 736 300 t standard; 27 242 740 t normal; 27 647 890 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(984.25 ft / 984.25 ft) x 984.25 ft x (984.25 / 998.89 ft)
	(300.00 m / 300.00 m) x 300.00 m  x (300.00 / 304.46 m)

Raesene wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Code: Select all

CSS Ridículo, Columbian battle barge laid down 1920

Displacement:
	26 123 270 t light; 26 736 300 t standard; 27 242 740 t normal; 27 647 890 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(984.25 ft / 984.25 ft) x 984.25 ft x (984.25 / 998.89 ft)
	(300.00 m / 300.00 m) x 300.00 m  x (300.00 / 304.46 m)

Don't forget to hoist the signal "Resistance is futile"

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:What the hell? A 27million tonne ship? Are you insane?