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Count Chocula wrote:

Armageddon? from Cleaned Up Fanfics wrote:Chapter One

Eagle Flight, Over The Eastern Pacific
“I, Satan Mekratrig, Lord of Hell, Commander of the Legions of the Damned do hereby declare my dominion over the earth and all that it contains. Crawl to me, humans, knowing the eternity of torment that awaits you.”

“Balls.” Said Lieutenant Michael Wong.

FUCK YEAH!

Oh. Oh my.

I guess not.

Yeah. That's slightly creepier than I would usually expect, though.

Ford Prefect wrote:Yeah. That's slightly creepier than I would usually expect, though.

It's an easy way to draw people in, I'll admit.

I've done it myself, and though I think Stark is right about its negative effects, in principle I don't have much of a problem with it. I just think Chocula is being particularly sychophantic.

actually it has the opposite on me. I've tried to read armageddon thrice now, since this thread provoked another attempt.

I can't get over the lameness of the first bit that chocula quoted in its entirety, as "Balls" said Lt. Wong is exactly where I quit each time.

Pick wrote:

Ford Prefect wrote:Yeah. That's slightly creepier than I would usually expect, though.

It's a lazy way to draw people in, I'll admit.

my eyes rolled so far out of my head when i read 'mike wong lick lick rimjob lol satan' that i was blind for days

Samuel wrote:What would be the best way to make them more of a threat? Have Hell stockpiling weapons to take on heaven for the last 50,000 years and unleash them upon human forces?

You're looking at this ass-backwards here. The question is not, "what minor revisions could make The Salvation War an interesting story as-is?" It's "what avenue of storytelling would serve the purposes of telling a compelling, interesting and dramatic story?"

Count Chocula wrote:Although Armageddon turned into "The Curbstomp War," it was a close run affair and if it had lasted a few months longer, or if Satan had had smarter lieutenants (or if he himself had adapted past the Bronze Age), humanity on Earth would have been in an assload of trouble.

In the first few chapters of The Salvation War, Stuart alludes to just how close humanity was to running out of ammunition and equipment to fight Satan's minions.

The biggest rule in screenwriting (and writing in general) Show, don't tell.

Stuart TOLD us that it was a close battle and we very nearly lost but in no way does the story actually SHOW that.

Duckie wrote:actually it has the opposite on me. I've tried to read armageddon thrice now, since this thread provoked another attempt.

I can't get over the lameness of the first bit that chocula quoted in its entirety, as "Balls" said Lt. Wong is exactly where I quit each time.

That's why I said 'in principle'. When I did it, I did it because I couldn't be stuffed inventing a whole crew of characters, so I got users on the board to do it for me. In The Salvation War you get direct usage of usernames like 'Kuroneko' and 'Surlethe', which is awfully obtrusive. Has Doctor Surlethe even been given a first name?

also stark has a point too lol

Ford Prefect wrote: I just think Chocula is being particularly sychophantic.

Syncophantic? Syncophantic? Me? Mike and I don't exactly see eye to eye, but he's in the first chapter of Armageddon?.

I dispute your scurrilous accusation, you magnificent specimen of Australian man.

I'm just calling it like I see it, my man.

Duckie wrote:actually it has the opposite on me. I've tried to read armageddon thrice now, since this thread provoked another attempt.

I can't get over the lameness of the first bit that chocula quoted in its entirety, as "Balls" said Lt. Wong is exactly where I quit each time.

I said "people", not "me". I didn't actually realize it was Wong Wong the first time I tried to read it, but I still didn't get that much further in. I then skipped to a much later passage to see if the style changed, but it didn't.

Pick, could you expand on what you don't like about the style of writing? more for the sake of posterity* than anything else.

*well not really because of autoprune but hey

At least names like "Wong" and "Schatten" are names that real people really have. Every time I read "Doctor Surlethe" or "Doctor Kuroneko" I died a little inside.

stuart may not know things about non-missiles film at eleven

Darth Raptor wrote:At least names like "Wong" and "Schatten" are names that real people really have. Every time I read "Doctor Surlethe" or "Doctor Kuroneko" I died a little inside.

stuart may not know things about non-missiles film at eleven

the obvious solution to this is to not read fanfics

Darth Raptor wrote:At least names like "Wong" and "Schatten" are names that real people really have.

Hey man, non-real person names are awesome. Then again, I might be more interested in The Salvation War if it was populated by people called Bear Fury, Athenian Grinn and Laser Circus.

ps these are my names do not steal

'nobody is named surlethe or kuroneko' could be very bad if it turns out kuroneko actually is named kuroneko man. He'd never do your math homework for you ever again.

Also my name is totally Duckie. For serious yo.

Also Also, am I in this fic? Please tell me I'm not.

The most obvious solution is to read Karen Traviss and then try to take a red pen to most any fanfic.

Count Chocula wrote:The most obvious solution is to read Karen Traviss and then try to take a red pen to most any fanfic.

Chocula: hurf hurf it's good if you lower your expectations *beats up on board hobbyhorse and chewtoy*

Chocula why are you in this thread.

Duckie wrote:Also Also, am I in this fic? Please tell me I'm not.

The chances that you are in either Armageddon or Pantheocide is the same as mine: precisely zero.

The duck's horns are goring. Ow. I read exactly one Traviss paperback and hated it...you may have noticed I'm not "hurf hurf" posting on any Traviss threads here, I just really didn't like the book I read. Zahn's, Daley's and Foster's novels were much better IMO. Splinter of the Mind's Eye especially.

I was here for fun but now you've made it SRS BZNZ. Ventedda!

EDIT PS I like Armageddon. And TSW. So there.

what can i say i'm a masochist and cannot spend all day writing my own terrible fiction

I gave up on Armageddon in short order. It was around when it became clear that the role of Abigor (the only character I ever gave a fuck about) was to be perpetually in awe of humanity. I'm not sure why I gave Pantheocide a try, but I did, and I got as far as "hay guise now we get to meet this dumb bitch from Thailand i totally had a boner for" before the bile came back and made it impossible to go on.

Ford: It's the aforementioned showing-not-telling issue which got to me most. There didn't seem to be a lot of mystique or alternate interpretation, even in characterizations. Things were made clear which were unnecessary to be clarified. I think one of the most interesting things about including magic (well, an allegory to magic) is it allows you to play by rules which you have formulated, but aren't necessarily revealed outright, and certainly not in the same way that standard physics is hypothetically accessible to everyone. It's something I think is fair enough to revel in. Also, the wording hits me as being flat, but then again, that's more fitting for this kind of work than anything veering into purple. Nevertheless, to me it lacks "flair". [insert Office Space joke here]

Darth Raptor wrote:what can i say i'm a masochist and cannot spend all day writing my own terrible fiction

raptor we shoudl be fanfiction bros

when i start writing again of course

i have not read your particular brand of terribleness yet and am desirous of the experience

It was around when it became clear that the role of Abigor (the only character I ever gave a fuck about) was to be perpetually in awe of humanity.

Abigor is one of those characters who should be very cool. Much like Michael-Lan, though, he suffers from this incessant need to depict humanity as the end of days incarnate. It's been said a few times now, of course.

Also, Pick, I have to agree with you on quite a few counts there. While there is such a thing as prose which is too descriptive, Stuart's writing is very ... functional. It's not exactly bad, but it is the bare minimum required to tell the events. Given the number of conferences which go on, this can lead to a great amount of pretty dry moments. At times it can turn into detailed blow-by-blow break down of precisely what just happened, but it's still usually perfunctory.

Personally, my second biggest complaint has to be how basically every character is flat, which is in part because there are so many characters. For a great number of names in The Salvation War, there is no real differentiation I can pick up. It certainly wouldn't count as a character driven piece, in my mind.


destructionator what are you laughing about

Yes, there's something about it that is very... hmm. Reminiscent of a history text. It recounts events, but it doesn't do so in a way that especially draws one's attention. How should I describe it? Like a logbook. And the characters speak in a way that solidifies the impression. Their speech is indistinct, which contributes to the issue you brought into more light: the difficulty of mentally categorizing the constituent characters when they're not presented in a context that brings out their individual features. I actually don't think that a huge amount of characters means they become interchangeable, but the task of making them sympathetic as actual people becomes much harder.

Pick wrote:Yes, there's something about it that is very... hmm. Reminiscent of a history text. It recounts events, but it doesn't do so in a way that especially draws one's attention. How should I describe it? Like a logbook. And the characters speak in a way that solidifies the impression. Their speech is indistinct, which contributes to the issue you brought into more light: the difficulty of mentally categorizing the constituent characters when they're not presented in a context that brings out their individual features. I actually don't think that a huge amount of characters means they become interchangeable, but the task of making them sympathetic as actual people becomes much harder.

I think the word you are looking for is documentary. If people wants to tell a story in TSW and focus on a small group of characters, there's no stopping you from writing fanfic about TSW.

I find it funny that you guys are bitching about the story for not being personal enough, yet no one wants to write fanfics that focus on those aspects.