Teen Creationism

C.S.Strowbridge · Post by **C.S.Strowbridge** » 2002-08-16 04:05pm

Zoink wrote:
C.S.Strowbridge wrote:
Zoink wrote: You have to define evil. If evil is defined as "something that is against God's will", then God's actions (whatever they may be) are not evil.
That's an incredibly stupid definition.

All it is is a setup for circular reasoning.
How is it stupid? Show me the circular reasoning.

It defines god as good and not god as evil without every proving anything. Just cause you were told. 'God is good.' over and over again doesn't make it true. It's called brain washing.

What God does is good, cause God is good. It's circular.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-08-16 04:40pm

How is God good? He allows Hitler to perform genocide, when the Jews have done nothing. He doesn't stop the Jews from evicting the Palestinians, and now he does nothing to stop the violence? That's gross negligence.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-16 06:32pm

If "God" simply controled everyones actions then what would be the point of existing? without free will what is the point he may aswell have grown crystals or something.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2002-08-16 09:05pm

He had no objections to smiting people who pissed him off in the Old Testament. Pharaoh qualifies for some holy asskicking, but Hitler does not?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-16 09:32pm

TheDarkling wrote:If "God" simply controled everyones actions then what would be the point of existing?

Okaaayy ... if God does not control everyone's actions, then what is the point of existing? What is the point of existing either way?

without free will what is the point he may aswell have grown crystals or something.

Ah, so it's much better to give us free will and then sentence us to eternal torture if we dare to use that free will for anything other than worshipping him. In other words, instead of using direct control to eliminate free will, he uses fascist threats of violence to eliminate free will. What's the difference?

Darik Sdair · Post by **Darik Sdair** » 2002-08-16 09:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:If "God" simply controled everyones actions then what would be the point of existing?
Okaaayy ... if God does not control everyone's actions, then what is the point of existing? What is the point of existing either way?
without free will what is the point he may aswell have grown crystals or something.
Ah, so it's much better to give us free will and then sentence us to eternal torture if we dare to use that free will for anything other than worshipping him. In other words, instead of using direct control to eliminate free will, he uses fascist threats of violence to eliminate free will. What's the difference?

Might be the sadistic pleasure that can be derived by breaking someone's free will and making them a loyal, master-loving slave. But that would be so... human.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-08-16 10:33pm

Might be the sadistic pleasure that can be derived by breaking someone's free will and making them a loyal, master-loving slave. But that would be so... human.

you mean like the greco-roman gods who differed from mere mortals only in power but have the exact same mentality as normal people, hell morally they are worse at times.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-16 11:08pm

you mean like the greco-roman gods who differed from mere mortals only in power but have the exact same mentality as normal people, hell morally they are worse at times.

I liked those guys. Take Zeus for example: he would see a beautiful woman from his perch high on Mount Olympus, and his first instinct was to sneak down there and fuck her brains out. Now that's a guy whose motivations we can understand, not like this "I'll make them, give them free will, and then torture them forever if they don't worship me" nonsense.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-16 11:10pm

Darth Wong wrote:
you mean like the greco-roman gods who differed from mere mortals only in power but have the exact same mentality as normal people, hell morally they are worse at times.
I liked those guys. Take Zeus for example: he would see a beautiful woman from his perch high on Mount Olympus, and his first instinct was to sneak down there and fuck her brains out. Now that's a guy whose motivations we can understand, not like this "I'll make them, give them free will, and then torture them forever if they don't worship me" nonsense.

Yeah, but Lord Wong, he always tended to do it in the form of an animal....WTF is THAT all about???

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-08-17 01:40am

Darth Yoshi wrote:How is God good? He allows Hitler to perform genocide, when the Jews have done nothing. He doesn't stop the Jews from evicting the Palestinians, and now he does nothing to stop the violence? That's gross negligence.

Actually Darth yoshi they did.I'll let you figure it out though.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-08-17 02:51am

Priesto wrote:Actually Darth yoshi they did.I'll let you figure it out though.

Did what?? Decide to crucify Jesus??? I don't see the logic in persecuting people for a crime committed by the ancestors.

Frankly, it reminds me of the Klingons in Star Trek, whose judicial system punishes whole families for crimes committed by one member IIRC.

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-08-17 03:03am

Punishment will extend beyond present generations if the sin is that bad.Logic? like I have said before, you don't know the situations those people were in at the time.You can't sit here and tell me each individuals situation can you? It isn't wise to comment on something with a lack of understanding the situation.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-17 05:44am

Darth Wong wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:If "God" simply controled everyones actions then what would be the point of existing?
Okaaayy ... if God does not control everyone's actions, then what is the point of existing? What is the point of existing either way?

Simple the point of existing is whatever you make it to be however I was speaking more from Gods POV why make something then only control it and before you say he does control everything because hes all seeing (which Im not sure I would agree with but) just because he can see the future doesnt mean he has an active hand in making it.

without free will what is the point he may aswell have grown crystals or something.
Ah, so it's much better to give us free will and then sentence us to eternal torture if we dare to use that free will for anything other than worshipping him. In other words, instead of using direct control to eliminate free will, he uses fascist threats of violence to eliminate free will. What's the difference?

Yes they are Facist threats of violence in the same way that if someone commmits a murder or other crime they get puished for it but they still commit crimes and the important part is they make the choice.
I am assuming you agree with punishing those sorts of actions? but from your statement it seems you do not.

I also dont see why any God worth worshiping (Im not sure anything deserves worship maybe respect would be better) would want that - if a god wants worshiping hes obviously flawed and not deserving of respect in any way.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-17 09:09am

Stravo wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
you mean like the greco-roman gods who differed from mere mortals only in power but have the exact same mentality as normal people, hell morally they are worse at times.
I liked those guys. Take Zeus for example: he would see a beautiful woman from his perch high on Mount Olympus, and his first instinct was to sneak down there and fuck her brains out. Now that's a guy whose motivations we can understand, not like this "I'll make them, give them free will, and then torture them forever if they don't worship me" nonsense.
Yeah, but Lord Wong, he always tended to do it in the form of an animal....WTF is THAT all about???

When you are immortal you have to think up ways to spice up your sex life

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2002-08-17 09:23am

Stravo wrote:Yeah, but Lord Wong, he always tended to do it in the form of an animal....WTF is THAT all about???

Well Zeus was Greek.

The reason that Zeus would go down as, say, a gorgeous bull was because he wanted to be incognito, cause Hera would have his testicles if he was caught. This is a very human practice. And to be fair, it wasn't always animals; one time he disguised himself as the womans husband while the guy was away on business in order to get some.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2002-08-17 02:27pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Ah, so it's much better to give us free will and then sentence us to eternal torture if we dare to use that free will for anything other than worshipping him. In other words, instead of using direct control to eliminate free will, he uses fascist threats of violence to eliminate free will. What's the difference?
Yes they are Facist threats of violence in the same way that if someone commmits a murder or other crime they get puished for it but they still commit crimes and the important part is they make the choice.
I am assuming you agree with punishing those sorts of actions? but from your statement it seems you do not.

Fuck you, asshole. I never said murder was OK, so don't try to put words like that in my mouth. I said that it was fascist for God brutalize and torture people for not worshipping him. Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you legally blind?

Even if we disregard the magnitude of God's brutality, that's fascism because failure to worship him is not a legitimate crime; thought crimes are only considered "crime" under the values of fascism.

I also dont see why any God worth worshiping (Im not sure anything deserves worship maybe respect would be better) would want that - if a god wants worshiping hes obviously flawed and not deserving of respect in any way.

Wanting worship makes him narcissistic. Brutalizing and torturing people for not giving it to him makes him fascist and evil.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-17 03:30pm

Despite showing your obvious anger management issues did you have a point back there?

I was making the statement that threats of violence arent facist what he was using them for I agree was however I did say that when I said any God wanting worship isnt really a God at least not as most christian religions would have us believe.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-17 04:18pm

TheDarkling wrote:Despite showing your obvious anger management issues ...

What anger management issue? I'm managing my anger just fine. I'm directing it where it needs to be directed. In this case, that's you, since you slandered me.

You accused me of saying that I don't think "murder or other crimes" should be punished. Oh, I'm soooo sorry for using foul language in response to your foul slander. Maybe next time you do that, I should mail you a fucking thank-you card.

... did you have a point back there?

Of course. The point was that it's fascist to punish thought crimes with threats of violence.

I was making the statement that threats of violence arent facist what he was using them for I agree was however I did say that when I said any God wanting worship isnt really a God at least not as most christian religions would have us believe.

And you were wrong, because threats of violence are only acceptable in response to real crimes. Threats of violence in response to thought crimes (ie- expressing disloyalty to God in the Bible or expressing disloyalty for the government in the case of real-life goverenments) are absolutely fascist. I made this point in the previous post (you know, the one to which your only response was a rhetorical "did you have a point" question). Are you really this dense? Or are you trying to be deliberately evasive?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-17 04:37pm

And you were wrong, because threats of violence are only acceptable in response to real crimes.

Yes which is what I said here.

I was making the statement that threats of violence arent facist what he was using them for I agree was

Now I thought I made that clear if not I apologise for not being clear enough.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-17 04:48pm

NecronLord wrote:
Stravo wrote:Yeah, but Lord Wong, he always tended to do it in the form of an animal....WTF is THAT all about???
When you are immortal you have to think up ways to spice up your sex life

Maybe he just thought the girl would appreciate the huge schlong of a bull

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-17 04:52pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And you were wrong, because threats of violence are only acceptable in response to real crimes.

Yes which is what I said here.

Not in context. You were objecting to my argument that it was fascist for God to violently punish people for not worshipping him. You quoted it but seemed to change it to "it's fascist to violently punish any crimes" before responding.

Now I thought I made that clear if not I apologise for not being clear enough.

I would prefer an apology for accusing me of thinking murder is OK, but I guess that will have to suffice for now ...

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-17 05:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:I would prefer an apology for accusing me of thinking murder is OK, but I guess that will have to suffice for now ...

I wasnt saying that at all I was saying thats where you argument would lead to, from what I can see we parted ways because you thought I was speaking about "God" as depicted in the bible but I did say that any God that wanted worship wasnt worthy of the title showing that I wasnt refering to the Judeo-Christian God.

However since I am a civil guy I apologise if you thought I was implying that you believed murderers should run free

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-08-17 05:19pm

Priesto wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:How is God good? He allows Hitler to perform genocide, when the Jews have done nothing. He doesn't stop the Jews from evicting the Palestinians, and now he does nothing to stop the violence? That's gross negligence.

Actually Darth yoshi they did.I'll let you figure it out though.

[sarcasm]How morally superior.[/sarcasm] Punishing millions of people for the actions of what, 200 at most (counting those who jeered)? Besides, the Jews had already been suffering for at least 1000 years before that. They were pariahs in Europe, Mohammed imposed Islam on them, and they were scattered across the old world. You're saying that even after all that, Jews deserved genocide? What a vindictive God. I wouldn't worship someone like that.

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-08-18 01:30am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
Priesto wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:How is God good? He allows Hitler to perform genocide, when the Jews have done nothing. He doesn't stop the Jews from evicting the Palestinians, and now he does nothing to stop the violence? That's gross negligence.

Actually Darth yoshi they did.I'll let you figure it out though.
[sarcasm]How morally superior.[/sarcasm] Punishing millions of people for the actions of what, 200 at most (counting those who jeered)? Besides, the Jews had already been suffering for at least 1000 years before that. They were pariahs in Europe, Mohammed imposed Islam on them, and they were scattered across the old world. You're saying that even after all that, Jews deserved genocide? What a vindictive God. I wouldn't worship someone like that.

Those few had children and they then grew.You must realize that the sin was this bad.That's the price you pay for crucifying the son of God.The jews weren't wiped out or something, but those who were taken were in the blood line of those ancient people.To free a murderer instead of an innoocent person is clearly wrong.You believe the children of the wicked should live and become contamintated like them? The Chosen people who knew better knew the consequences, when it was too late.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-08-18 01:50am

Those descendants had nothing to do with it. Punishing them has no effect on the perpetrators, since they aren't alive anymore to know their descendants have been murdered. And they don't even know why they died. What's the point of punishing someone without telling him why? While we're on the Holocaust, what about Gypsies, who were also put into the death camps? What did they do?