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Posted: 2008-08-07 06:52pm
by Beowulf
Sea Skimmer wrote:phongn wrote:
Well, everyone has guided missiles; the only thing apparently prohibited at the moment are SRBMs and larger.
SRBMs are banned? That doesn’t work, since the definition of an SRBM is simply a missile with less then 1000km range. I propose instead we just adapt a firm limit on starting ballistic missile performance; mainly a range limit of 300km and a payload limit of 500kg (same as that of the MTCR treaty). This allows for a wide range of tactical ballistic missiles and SAMs that have SSM capability like Nike-Hercules and Patriot (no mistake), without creating any real scope for strategic bombardment. Even with nerve gas you just aren’t going to kill many people with weapons this big, and it would take a long time to get nukes that weigh under 500kg. By that point people will have whole new missiles.
Missiles with this kind of performance would have the potential to put a very small payload into a very low orbit, but as I’ve said before I’m not adverse to the idea of spaceflight existing on a very limited scope. The limitation to V-2 technology is just totally illogical in a world in which allows mach 6 surface to air missiles that can be turned into SSMs at the flick of a switch.
My proposal is involves that nukes simply don't exist, and there are certain weapon system thus involved that wouldn't either. SSBNs would have no reason to exist, as well as the larger rockets (IRBMs and bigger). In conjunction with the lack of larger rockets, there is currently no space program.
However, if you want ATACMS, you're golden. Nothing preventing you from grabbing something similar either.
I'll add to the proposal MCMs, at 1 pt apiece.
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:10pm
by Lonestar
You know what? I really dislike all these choads(to include RI) who want to be Island nations.
"Hurr hurr I want a degree of immunity from attack...err...I mean, I'm too lazy to come up with a new map. Even if we still have over a week until Stas returns and makes the global map. Yeah. That's it."
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:30pm
by Sea Skimmer
Speaking of maps, if anyone spots a decent sized map image of South East Asia which DOESN’T have shitloads of writing all over it, I’d be much obliged if they’d point me towards it. I’ve been looking on and off for weeks now, and I can’t find jack crap that suitable. Hell even in my books I can find something worth scanning….
As for the island nations, how about we squeeze all the ones that really want to be that way into a narrow waterway almost totally encircled (only exit to the open ocean being 20-30 miles wide) by Shepistan and Japanistan? That I’ll teach them. Between the huge masses of pollution drifting over and the suicide gliders they’ll be begging for land boarders in no time.
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:50pm
by Lonestar
Sea Skimmer wrote:
As for the island nations, how about we squeeze all the ones that really want to be that way into a narrow waterway almost totally encircled (only exit to the open ocean being 20-30 miles wide) by Shepistan and Japanistan? That I’ll teach them. Between the huge masses of pollution drifting over and the suicide gliders they’ll be begging for land boarders in no time.
Well, people like Phong are basically BROADCASTING that the reason why they want to be an Island nation is to afford themselves a degree of immunity. In other words, "Hey I'm an Island and i have an impenetrable air defense network."
So yeah, I'd support sticking 'em in a inland sea between Shepistan and Japanistan, if that's the route they want to go.
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:51pm
by phongn
Lonestar wrote:You know what? I really dislike all these choads(to include RI) who want to be Island nations.
Er, in my case its so I can be have it run on semiautomatic if needed and not make everyone else have to worry about what I do on land. Put me as an island and if I have to go away for awhile and everyone can easily ignore me. The military structure was then made for that.
That said, putting me and Stas right next to each other would be hillarity and make me have a rather different OOB.
Lonestar wrote:"Hurr hurr I want a degree of immunity from attack...err...I mean, I'm too lazy to come up with a new map. Even if we still have over a week until Stas returns and makes the global map. Yeah. That's it."
We don't even have a world map! How the hell am I supposed to figure out where I am?
Lonestar wrote:Well, people like Phong are basically BROADCASTING that the reason why they want to be an Island nation is to afford themselves a degree of immunity. In other words, "Hey I'm an Island and i have an impenetrable air defense network."
That significantly changes if I end up a land-based power. It's just one draft I have; I have other OOBs ready.
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:54pm
by Lonestar
Alternatively, if someone really wants to have the defensive mechanisms that come with being an Island nation, maybe the size(physical size) of the country should be chopped in half or something? I don't like the idea of Japanistan islands just kinda floating out there, Britain-size Islands would be more like it.
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:56pm
by phongn
Lonestar wrote:Alternatively, if someone really wants to have the defensive mechanisms that come with being an Island nation, maybe the size(physical size) of the country should be chopped in half or something? I don't like the idea of Japanistan islands just kinda floating out there, Britain-size Islands would be more like it.
I would certainly be willing to be something the size of the British Isles, actually, and was pondering IRTv2 being modeled on them.
Posted: 2008-08-07 07:57pm
by MKSheppard
Coiler wrote:Stop being a dick and bending the rules just to satisfy your fetish for WMDs.
Says the moron who adopted a policy in the last game that of course resulted in his nation being targeted by so many WMDs by everyone, that they ceased to exist 4 minutes after the balloon went up.
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:08pm
by Setzer
I'm an island, but I'm like Cyprus, England or Sicily. I'm close to a continent, so it's not like I'm immune to attack.
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:19pm
by Sea Skimmer
Lonestar wrote:Alternatively, if someone really wants to have the defensive mechanisms that come with being an Island nation, maybe the size(physical size) of the country should be chopped in half or something? I don't like the idea of Japanistan islands just kinda floating out there, Britain-size Islands would be more like it.
Well Japanistan is being modeled as the territory of Burma-Thailand-Vietnam- Peninsular Malaysia + the Island of Sumatra (which is still being brutalized into becoming a proper part of Japanistan) and a few minor islands. That gives me some areas which are pretty well defended by geography, but my potential land boarder is over 2,000 miles long and I’m fully expecting to be attached to a continent. Anything else would make the game a waste of time as far as I’m concerned.
Setzer wrote:I'm an island, but I'm like Cyprus, England or Sicily. I'm close to a continent, so it's not like I'm immune to attack.
Being ‘close’ is not good enough. The English channel is only 20 miles wide but it was enough to stop the strongest Army in Europe in 1940. This is an enormous advantage that people should not have. A couple islands would have been okay, but almost everyone wants one, thats not happening, and if we can't get some people to go over then maybe just no one should get one , you at best get a very narrow neck of land as a barrier.
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:29pm
by Setzer
Well, if you take a look at the western part of my nation, you'll see there isn't much of anything west of the mountains. That can be my land border. I can do a bit of redrawing to show the border with whoever I'm sharing it with. I wasn't expecting this many people to play islands, so I'll change my stuff to show willing. There's a pass through the mountains, as well as several smaller ones for foot traffic and animals. It's a good defensive barrier, but hardly invincible.
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:31pm
by Coyote
For the record, I very specifically want Canissia to be a continental power. I'll even accept a Spain-sized country that requires me to do a new map, because I realized that the topography I designed is for an island. I'd love to have integrated terrain features with another country to spice things up.
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:34pm
by RogueIce
So far as I know, only me, phong, and Setzer are doing island nations (and Setzer seems ready to change). Maybe Wilkens, if he decides to play.
That's...four. The vast majority of people I've seen have some continent thing going on.
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:39pm
by Setzer
Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to change, if necessary. Part of my history involves a huge plague in the 7th century, but it was supposed to be confined to my island. If you want, I can change things, and we can write our own version of the Black Death into things...
Posted: 2008-08-07 08:50pm
by phongn
As noted before, being an island power is hardly something I'm going to insist on.
Posted: 2008-08-07 09:08pm
by Vohu Manah
I'm open to modifying my concept for a landlocked nation, but for right now I'm requesting an island.
Posted: 2008-08-07 11:00pm
by Mr Bean
Speaking of Ships, how much would a Modernized Yamato or Iowa ship cost me? IE modern fire control, Targeting drones, but built around 16inch guns to 18 inch guns? These would be thirty five to forty five year old ships at this point in the game if I got them to keep them making sense.
Posted: 2008-08-07 11:21pm
by phongn
Anyways, to address all the whiners, I have a second OOB posted.
Posted: 2008-08-07 11:52pm
by Coyote
Setzer wrote:Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to change, if necessary. Part of my history involves a huge plague in the 7th century, but it was supposed to be confined to my island. If you want, I can change things, and we can write our own version of the Black Death into things...
How about a peninsular nation, like Thailand? Or one connected by a pair of narrow isthmus, Panama-like?
Posted: 2008-08-08 12:27am
by Shroom Man 777
I'm still sticking with my island - but it will be, like, Britain-sized or something. Maybe a bit bigger than Britain, but I'm not gonna be anything else than a Britain/UK.
I'm not too keen on military dickishness, so no - you won't see me exploiting my position for my own dickish ends. You've seen me play the last time, you all saw how I was the last person who wanted to go into armed conflict with the big boys. You all know I'm just content to go around making money, and dicking around with stupid characters with stupid names (alliterations!) doing stupid things
Posted: 2008-08-08 01:48am
by Fingolfin_Noldor
The ambivalence with islands, is that some have been known to be isolationist dicks, who run around making trouble, and then erect an "invincible" defence just to facillitate more nonsense.
Posted: 2008-08-08 02:25am
by PeZook
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The ambivalence with islands, is that some have been known to be isolationist dicks, who run around making trouble, and then erect an "invincible" defence just to facillitate more nonsense.
They're still vulnerable to blockades and supersupersonic cruise missile spam. And with upped capabilities for Duchies and Principalities, alliances can now fuck such people up just fine.
Posted: 2008-08-08 02:34am
by Fingolfin_Noldor
PeZook wrote:Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The ambivalence with islands, is that some have been known to be isolationist dicks, who run around making trouble, and then erect an "invincible" defence just to facillitate more nonsense.
They're still vulnerable to blockades and supersupersonic cruise missile spam. And with upped capabilities for Duchies and Principalities, alliances can now fuck such people up just fine.
Why yes of course, but in the case of phong, he has plenty of fighters and so forth, to retaliate with missile spam of his own. His military is designed for massive air retaliation.
Posted: 2008-08-08 02:39am
by phongn
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why yes of course, but in the case of phong, he has plenty of fighters and so forth, to retaliate with missile spam of his own. His military is designed for massive air retaliation.
Not quite. Most of my air force for the island-OOB is oriented to defense of the Home Islands. The offensive forces are mostly assigned to my Navy, and normally only a third of it will be at an AO at any given time (I can surge to half the Navy, but that isn't free).
My land OOB is significantly different, with swarms of older aircraft backing an enormous "second-gen" army.
Posted: 2008-08-08 02:40am
by PeZook
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Why yes of course, but in the case of phong, he has plenty of fighters and so forth, to retaliate with missile spam of his own. His military is designed for massive air retaliation.
He's an Imperium, even if he was landlocked he'd be pretty dangerous. Just put him close to somebody, so that he can get messed up by land-based missiles (cheaper than aircraft = moar
)