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Was that the guy who dabbed at and tasted the blood-red footprint, remarking it was salt?

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2018-01-21 01:05pm Was that the guy who dabbed at and tasted the blood-red footprint, remarking it was salt?

Yup.

Saw the movie yesterday, with my family. Some of the bias confirmed in other reviews, were sadly confirmed.

Before I start, I should remind you I'M CHINESE-AMERICAN, so racism is NOT a motivation for my criticism.

The script is poorly written, the characters poorly developed, their motivations poorly explained. The question "Why didn't the First Order have their ships jump ahead of the Resistance fleet, and cut them off?" could be justified as a psychological warfare tactic; failure to explain this, just makes the First Order leaders look stupid, which makes the Resistance look stupid for failing to crush such a stupid enemy themselves.

Holdo is a poor leader who's more interested in LOOKING like a leader (and failing, as she's serving as a military leader, not a political or diplomatic position that justifies her wearing that dress and dying her hair with eye-catching colors) instead of ACTING like one. Poe's question "Do we even have [a plan]?" indicated the Resistance's morale was falling; instead of trying to repair it, Holdo's dismissive attitude towards his (and his subordinates') concerns just worsened the problem. Poe himself made mistakes- see the Canto Bight mission and his decision to "relieve [Holdo] of duty,"- but those mistakes were acts of desperation, and could've been avoided if Holdo addressed his concerns and relieved that sense of desperation.

Rose Tico SUCKS as a character. Her hatred of Canto Bight seems misguided, as how can she be certain the "rich" were all getting rich off the Military-Industrial Complex? Military hardware doesn't have that much potential for profit, as when you sell to a GOVERNMENT (the New Republic, the First Order), you're selling to an entity with the power to devalue the very money you're earning if they think you're earning too much, to say nothing of the power to SEIZE your hardware and the production facilities for them.

Rose's decision to free the animals could've (and likely DID) injured a lot of innocent people, e.g., waiters and waitresses, bartenders, card dealers, custodians and street sweepers- those with nothing to do with the military-industrial complex she hates. And why didn't she free the children as well? She saw they were in an abusive environment. Even if her ship couldn't fit the children, she could've had the children ride animals of their own, giving Finn and herself decoys to distract the Canto Bight police and increase their chance of successfully escaping.

Her decision to RAM Finn's speeder could easily have killed him (and herself)- and for what? The Resistance needed to stop the "battering ram cannon" (a stupid design, as its barrel can't be depressed to fire upon an underground bunker or other buried target), and they had no way of knowing Luke would appear and distract the First Order to buy them time to escape. "Saving what we love"? You almost KILLED "what [you] love," while he was preparing to sacrifice himself to save you, i.e., do what Holdo did! What, only women are allowed to make heroic gestures of self-sacrifice?

Patroklos wrote: 2018-01-21 10:18am Remember when Han, Chewie, plus an extra force sensitive gunner, has a hard time destroying four TIE fighters. And Han was so proud of his work that he was all bragging and carrying on. Yet he was informed by Leia (and she was right), that what he was so proud of was actually the Empire throwing it? That Han's idea of a great accomplishment is him beating a half ass attack.

Someone posted earlier about power/ability inflation. This is a good example.

I always thought it must have sucked to be those pilots.

Wing commander: So these orders come direct from Lord Vader himself. We are letting them get away. They have a tracking device and will lead us directly to their secret base.

TIE pilot: That's... That's actually quite clever.

Wing commander: But you're really going to have to sell it. They need to feel they've escaped despite our best efforts.

TIE pilot: Of course, of course. We'll really give them a good drubbing but not so much they can't escape.

Wing commander: Get yourself blown up.

TIE pilot: Excuse me?

Wing commander: Die. All three of you need to get blown to space smithereens or else they'll think we aren't trying.

TIE pilot: There's like literally thousands of fighters onboard. You really think they'll buy your only scrambling three of us?

Wing commander: Look, your job isn't to understand the orders, simply to carry them out. And I promise you, being vaporized in an exploding TIE fighter is preferable to what Vader will do to you.

TIE pilot: Allrighty, then.

One other thought. If Leia knew that they let her go and were likely tracking them, why not fly to a neutral rendezvous point to meet up with the Rebels? Techs could search the Falcon for the tracking device while she and R2 are going back to Yavin.

I just assumed those TIEs were not in on it and just didn't know there wasn't any backup coming. Leia didn't think they got off easy because those particular TIEs didn't try, but rather because they were all that showed up. Presumably, Tarkin was willing to risk maybe killing them for the sell. And why not? If that happened the plans are secure, a major leader of the alliance is dead, and whenever they fond the base another way he is invulnerable. He didn't seem particularly down with the idea of letting them escape in the first place.

As for why they went to the base anyway, well that's one of the biggest plot holes of ANH. The theory is that now that she had the plans she had to make sure they got a chance to use them before the Empire figured out the error it took the Rebels themselves like, ten minutes, to find so thats a valid concern. Yes its stupid, and it only works because its the first movie, and the contrivance is near the end when its earned some SOD currency to cash in.

Given what we know about the Rebel Alliance from Rogue One there may have been a little motivation of the Rameirez/corteZ from Hunt For Red October school.

'The Death Star's coming here so you guys better kill it or we die' being a fait accompli like Rogue 1 itself at Scarif.

Patroklos wrote: 2018-01-21 04:57pm I just assumed those TIEs were not in on it and just didn't know there wasn't any backup coming. Leia didn't think they got off easy because those particular TIEs didn't try, but rather because they were all that showed up. Presumably, Tarkin was willing to risk maybe killing them for the sell. And why not? If that happened the plans are secure, a major leader of the alliance is dead, and whenever they fond the base another way he is invulnerable. He didn't seem particularly down with the idea of letting them escape in the first place.

Yeah, that's basically what you have to run with.

As for why they went to the base anyway, well that's one of the biggest plot holes of ANH. The theory is that now that she had the plans she had to make sure they got a chance to use them before the Empire figured out the error it took the Rebels themselves like, ten minutes, to find so thats a valid concern. Yes its stupid, and it only works because its the first movie, and the contrivance is near the end when its earned some SOD currency to cash in.

Agreed. Because the rest of the movie is so entertaining, these are head-scratchers that generate amiable discussion instead of slack-jawed disappointment.

Sidewinder wrote:Her hatred of Canto Bight seems misguided, as how can she be certain the "rich" were all getting rich off the Military-Industrial Complex? Military hardware doesn't have that much potential for profit, as when you sell to a GOVERNMENT (the New Republic, the First Order), you're selling to an entity with the power to devalue the very money you're earning if they think you're earning too much, to say nothing of the power to SEIZE your hardware and the production facilities for them.

That's gotta be the most ridiculous criticism I've ever seen. Go re-watch "Lord of War" until you've grown up.

Sidewinder wrote:What, only women are allowed to make heroic gestures of self-sacrifice?

No, in this instance she just placed her own feelings above soldier duty and prevented a kamikaze run. Seemed pretty obvious, even if anti-climactic.

Sidewinder wrote:The question "Why didn't the First Order have their ships jump ahead of the Resistance fleet, and cut them off?" could be justified as a psychological warfare tactic; failure to explain this, just makes the First Order leaders look stupid

They are not much more than neo-Nazis with a cruelty hard-on and glaring incompetence; this explanation doesn't need to be given to the viewer as he had already seen the competence level of First Order goons and how sadism is a lot more important to them.

K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-01-21 05:42pm

Sidewinder wrote:Her hatred of Canto Bight seems misguided, as how can she be certain the "rich" were all getting rich off the Military-Industrial Complex? Military hardware doesn't have that much potential for profit, as when you sell to a GOVERNMENT (the New Republic, the First Order), you're selling to an entity with the power to devalue the very money you're earning if they think you're earning too much, to say nothing of the power to SEIZE your hardware and the production facilities for them.

That's gotta be the most ridiculous criticism I've ever seen. Go re-watch "Lord of War" until you've grown up.

The jackass in "Lord of War" sold small arms, NOT jet fighters, main battle tanks, or warships- stuff that cannot be hammered out in a garage, but require precision manufacturing, assembly, and maintenance. TIE fighters, Imperial walkers, and Star Destroyers require proper factories and trained workers to manufacture, which a proper government can and will seize and detain if they don't like the deal the arms manufacturer is offering- and considering the value of those items, how many people can actually afford them? Very few, which means if a government doesn't like your deal, you're going to have trouble finding another buyer.

Sidewinder wrote: 2018-01-21 06:17pm

K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-01-21 05:42pm

Sidewinder wrote:Her hatred of Canto Bight seems misguided, as how can she be certain the "rich" were all getting rich off the Military-Industrial Complex? Military hardware doesn't have that much potential for profit, as when you sell to a GOVERNMENT (the New Republic, the First Order), you're selling to an entity with the power to devalue the very money you're earning if they think you're earning too much, to say nothing of the power to SEIZE your hardware and the production facilities for them.

That's gotta be the most ridiculous criticism I've ever seen. Go re-watch "Lord of War" until you've grown up.

The jackass in "Lord of War" sold small arms, NOT jet fighters, main battle tanks, or warships- stuff that cannot be hammered out in a garage, but require precision manufacturing, assembly, and maintenance. TIE fighters, Imperial walkers, and Star Destroyers require proper factories and trained workers to manufacture, which a proper government can and will seize and detain if they don't like the deal the arms manufacturer is offering- and considering the value of those items, how many people can actually afford them? Very few, which means if a government doesn't like your deal, you're going to have trouble finding another buyer.

Actually, as well as small arms Orlov also sold a limited number of used attack choppers. He got them past border security via exploiting a loophole whereby simply taking off the rocket pods they were technically "Rescue Helicopters", even though the pods were sat right next to them on the deck.

Just going to comment on this bit:

Sidewinder wrote: 2018-01-21 01:43pmRose's decision to free the animals could've (and likely DID) injured a lot of innocent people, e.g., waiters and waitresses, bartenders, card dealers, custodians and street sweepers- those with nothing to do with the military-industrial complex she hates.

War is hell. You ought to try to avoid it, but "collateral damage" happens, and this would cause a hell of a lot less than, say, an airstrike likely would.

And why didn't she free the children as well? She saw they were in an abusive environment. Even if her ship couldn't fit the children, she could've had the children ride animals of their own, giving Finn and herself decoys to distract the Canto Bight police and increase their chance of successfully escaping.

That wouldn't be FREEING the children- it would be using them as decoys. Which might get SHOT at.

Think this through again, mkay?

Her decision to RAM Finn's speeder could easily have killed him (and herself)- and for what? The Resistance needed to stop the "battering ram cannon" (a stupid design, as its barrel can't be depressed to fire upon an underground bunker or other buried target), and they had no way of knowing Luke would appear and distract the First Order to buy them time to escape. "Saving what we love"? You almost KILLED "what [you] love," while he was preparing to sacrifice himself to save you, i.e., do what Holdo did! What, only women are allowed to make heroic gestures of self-sacrifice?

No, I think the point was that Finn was making the same mistake Poe did at the start: disobeying orders to gamble everything on a suicidal plan that was unlikely to succeed-odds are he would have fired before he made it to the target, I'm guessing. Whereas, so far as I can tell, there was basically no way for Holdo's plan to be countered by the First Order in time, she wasn't violating orders (because, you know, she was the CO), and it was literally the only option she had to save the entire fleet.

But sure, play the persecuted male victim card.

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-01-21 07:43pm Just going to comment on this bit:

Sidewinder wrote: 2018-01-21 01:43pmRose's decision to free the animals could've (and likely DID) injured a lot of innocent people, e.g., waiters and waitresses, bartenders, card dealers, custodians and street sweepers- those with nothing to do with the military-industrial complex she hates.

War is hell. You ought to try to avoid it, but "collateral damage" happens, and this would cause a hell of a lot less than, say, an airstrike likely would.

Canto Bight was NOT a military target- hell, there was no indication the planet's government was anything but neutral in the war. If word gets out a Resistance member was responsible for what you call "collateral damage," but what the Canto Bight government (and the civilians injured when the animals ran wild) will call "crimes," support for the First Order will increase instead.

Sidewinder brings the best comedy.

Sidewinder wrote: 2018-01-21 06:17pmThe jackass in "Lord of War" sold small arms, NOT jet fighters, main battle tanks, or warships- stuff that cannot be hammered out in a garage, but require precision manufacturing, assembly, and maintenance. TIE fighters, Imperial walkers, and Star Destroyers require proper factories and trained workers to manufacture, which a proper government can and will seize and detain if they don't like the deal the arms manufacturer is offering- and considering the value of those items, how many people can actually afford them? Very few, which means if a government doesn't like your deal, you're going to have trouble finding another buyer.

Don't a lot of militaries pay private companies to manufacture their stuff?

Patroklos wrote: 2018-01-21 04:57pmAs for why they went to the base anyway, well that's one of the biggest plot holes of ANH. The theory is that now that she had the plans she had to make sure they got a chance to use them before the Empire figured out the error it took the Rebels themselves like, ten minutes, to find so thats a valid concern. Yes its stupid, and it only works because its the first movie, and the contrivance is near the end when its earned some SOD currency to cash in.

I always assumed they went there because they knew the Empire would be hot on their heels with the Death Star. The Empire has already demonstrated they'll blow up a major world with Alderaan- Rebel or not. If I knew they were following me I'd be highly reticent to go to even a shithole like Tatooine, lest the Empire decide to destroy it. Good guys don't bring planet destroying heat on innocent planets.

Gandalf wrote: 2018-01-21 11:57pm Sidewinder brings the best comedy.

Sidewinder wrote: 2018-01-21 06:17pmThe jackass in "Lord of War" sold small arms, NOT jet fighters, main battle tanks, or warships- stuff that cannot be hammered out in a garage, but require precision manufacturing, assembly, and maintenance. TIE fighters, Imperial walkers, and Star Destroyers require proper factories and trained workers to manufacture, which a proper government can and will seize and detain if they don't like the deal the arms manufacturer is offering- and considering the value of those items, how many people can actually afford them? Very few, which means if a government doesn't like your deal, you're going to have trouble finding another buyer.

Don't a lot of militaries pay private companies to manufacture their stuff?

Of course, but legitimate national companies supplying legitimate national companies is not how this was characterized. Rather it was characterized as all black market, where we get the LEET HAXOR reveal in the stolen yacht or whatever of DelSlicer exposing proof of their sales (both to the First Order AND the Rebels) and its treated as if this was some big deal.

This was probably the only good thing to come out of that whole sequence, where Finn and Rose are confronted with the fact their side deals with the same unsavory suppliers the FO does and the riches around them they believe are entirely misbegotten are in part from their own pocket. The movie of course just roll right over it and never mention it again. Not that it should change the character's minds, but it would have been nice to see their ideological polish tarnish a bit at the revelation.

Kojiro wrote: 2018-01-22 12:12am

Patroklos wrote: 2018-01-21 04:57pmAs for why they went to the base anyway, well that's one of the biggest plot holes of ANH. The theory is that now that she had the plans she had to make sure they got a chance to use them before the Empire figured out the error it took the Rebels themselves like, ten minutes, to find so thats a valid concern. Yes its stupid, and it only works because its the first movie, and the contrivance is near the end when its earned some SOD currency to cash in.

I always assumed they went there because they knew the Empire would be hot on their heels with the Death Star. The Empire has already demonstrated they'll blow up a major world with Alderaan- Rebel or not. If I knew they were following me I'd be highly reticent to go to even a shithole like Tatooine, lest the Empire decide to destroy it. Good guys don't bring planet destroying heat on innocent planets.

They could have just met at some random coordinate in deep space. Or some otherwise uninhabited planet they have some outpost on like Hoth. Its also possible Leia thought that by keeping them hot on her heels the DS wouldn't go blow up some other planet home to a different Rebel leader in the mean time while they found another way to find the Rebel base. Keep Tarkin busy as much as possible to delay his terror program. Also to attack the DS you need to know where it is yourself. So having lost the plans Tarkin could have just hid in deep space until they somehow recovered them again, meanwhile examining the plans for flaws themselves and perhaps finding the one the Rebels did. This way the Rebels are guaranteed at least one attack while the plans are still fresh.

Like I said the decision is a plot hole, I do not agree with the rationalizations. She should NOT have gone to the Rebel base.

Patroklos wrote: 2018-01-22 12:21amOf course, but legitimate national companies supplying legitimate national companies is not how this was characterized. Rather it was characterized as all black market, where we get the LEET HAXOR reveal in the stolen yacht or whatever of DelSlicer exposing proof of their sales (both to the First Order AND the Rebels) and its treated as if this was some big deal.

This was probably the only good thing to come out of that whole sequence, where Finn and Rose are confronted with the fact their side deals with the same unsavory suppliers the FO does and the riches around them they believe are entirely misbegotten are in part from their own pocket. The movie of course just roll right over it and never mention it again. Not that it should change the character's minds, but it would have been nice to see their ideological polish tarnish a bit at the revelation.

Legitimate national companies?

Sidewinder wrote: 2018-01-21 06:17pm

K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-01-21 05:42pm

Sidewinder wrote:Her hatred of Canto Bight seems misguided, as how can she be certain the "rich" were all getting rich off the Military-Industrial Complex? Military hardware doesn't have that much potential for profit, as when you sell to a GOVERNMENT (the New Republic, the First Order), you're selling to an entity with the power to devalue the very money you're earning if they think you're earning too much, to say nothing of the power to SEIZE your hardware and the production facilities for them.

That's gotta be the most ridiculous criticism I've ever seen. Go re-watch "Lord of War" until you've grown up.

The jackass in "Lord of War" sold small arms, NOT jet fighters, main battle tanks, or warships- stuff that cannot be hammered out in a garage, but require precision manufacturing, assembly, and maintenance. TIE fighters, Imperial walkers, and Star Destroyers require proper factories and trained workers to manufacture, which a proper government can and will seize and detain if they don't like the deal the arms manufacturer is offering- and considering the value of those items, how many people can actually afford them? Very few, which means if a government doesn't like your deal, you're going to have trouble finding another buyer.

You do realize even the Galactic Republic did not control every single planet? And you do realize that the Galaxy is in a civil war and “seizing” a planet is not as easy as one thinks. There is no “government”, only competing factions.

But sure, sure. Go on, the more stupid, the better.

Sorry that was a typo Legitimate national companies supplying legitimate COUNTRIES.

Lockeed Martin, a sanctioned and legal recognized entity of the United States, openly supplies arms to the internationally recognized sovereign country the United States within its own borders (and requires permission from said country to supply anywhere else).

Similarly Thales Group does the same for the French.

Similarly Sukoi for the Russians.

If said corporations are selling to anyone else other than their own nation, clandestinely or not, they need at least the permission of their own country whether that be the NR, the FO, or some neutral power. As far as we know both the FO and Rebels are not recognized legitimate powers in this setting, both are outside the galactic government doing their own thing. Now maybe you got the impression that Canto was full of FO businessmen. I got the impression that they were actually NR businessmen doing shady black market deals illegally, and this is basically told to us in the reveal I mentioned before.If they were FO businessmen then there is nothing to reveal by showing they sell things to the FO (and since any old UNIFORMED Rebel can waltz into their party at will, they presumably would be dead already). If they are NR businessmen who are legally selling arms to the FO, then there is nothing to reveal. If they are buisnessmen from nuetral powers, again, there is nothing to complain about because they are not doing anything wrong. And obviously they are not keeping their activity a secret, given the point of the scene was to show these guys publicly flaunting their wealth that any old poor miner knows the source of.

So yes militaries do hire private companies to manufacture their stuff, but NOT via the black market to supply every major end item they have. Even militaries with the largest exposure to the blackmarket (NK, Iran) don't outfit their air forces with black market fighter jets. And then its not a transaction between companies and end users, but countries to countries. This movie makes it clear that these businessmen are supplying both sides clandestinely against each other, so its a legitimate question to challenge the insinuation by Rose that they are rich just by this black market activity with the FO because that is stupid. Both because they are allowed to exist in this fashion, and because the follow on is that the FO isn't manufacturing its own major end items and is reliant on this trade.

So no, bringing up the Lord of War and suggesting that's a model to explain what we see at Canto does not cut it. Well, that is exactuly what the movie WANTS us to think, but that situation just doesn't make sense in the movie. What we see at Canto is as if Lockheed Martin, Thales, and Sukoi all independently started giving their best products clandestinely to ISIS while still hanging out in their own countries flaunting their wealth. Its even worse than that, given the NR doesn't use what they are supposedly selling to the FO. Its more like if Lockheed was selling the US F-22s (X-wings), but had independently developed a comparable alternate aircraft (TIEs) and sold it exclusively to North Korea at the same time. This is what the movie shows us. And its stupid. Its like the worst Marxist anti-capitalist wanktastic fan fiction, so obtuse and clumsy in its exectution that you can't help rolling your eyes the second you know where they are going.

I would, however, welcome a Lort of War type character. Sort of like an anti-Han non FO villian sort of like Jabba. Or if you want to have comparitively powerful nuetral factions outside the NR and FO who can fill the role of high end merchant of doom stoking the fires from a secure distance thats fine, but the movies haven't established they exist.

1. There is no galactic government, and the New Republic is destroyed.

2. Legality and morality are not one and the same, and if they were legally selling arms - which seems to be the case - it does not detract from the point that they are shitty war profiteers.

3. The US circumvented the UN arms embargo and through pressure and legal loopholes kept selling weapons to Indonesia during the genocide in East Timor. The fact that it was done by a legal democratic government doesn’t change shit, it is profit from war and murder.

4. Grow up.

Patroklos wrote: 2018-01-22 02:33amSo no, bringing up the Lord of War and suggesting that's a model to explain what we see at Canto does not cut it. Well, that is exactuly what the movie WANTS us to think, but that situation just doesn't make sense in the movie. What we see at Canto is as if Lockheed Martin, Thales, and Sukoi all independently started giving their best products clandestinely to ISIS while still hanging out in their own countries flaunting their wealth. Its even worse than that, given the NR doesn't use what they are supposedly selling to the FO. Its more like if Lockheed was selling the US F-22s (X-wings), but had independently developed a comparable alternate aircraft (TIEs) and sold it exclusively to North Korea at the same time. This is what the movie shows us. And its stupid.

Why is that so unbelievable? Cantonica is in the Corporate Sector, so it's not like New Republic law is going to be particularly useful or even applicable.

Its like the worst Marxist anti-capitalist wanktastic fan fiction, so obtuse and clumsy in its exectution that you can't help rolling your eyes the second you know where they are going.

"Selling to planet destroying conquerors is bad" is anti-capitalistic?

Gandalf wrote: 2018-01-22 04:57am Why is that so unbelievable? Cantonica is in the Corporate Sector, so it's not like New Republic law is going to be particularly useful or even applicable.

Too bad they didn't bother to mention that in the movie.

"Selling to planet destroying conquerors is bad" is anti-capitalistic?

The message is anti-capitalist as you well know, and like every other message in nuWars its been shoehorned inappropriately into a setting that is 100% capable of supporting that idea if you don't insist on fitting square pegs in round holes.

Its a self defeating message given the reaction is to point and laugh at the childishness of the sequence, but we know the writers intent. I am sure they thought it was soooooo clever and topical because reasons. Not important enough to spend more than five minutes of time to do it right though.

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2018-01-21 10:09am I just got back from seeing the film for the first time and I can see why the reviews are so polarised- Rey spends half the film trying to convince Luke to get off his ass and do something, which he does only after most of the Rebels have been killed.

Same deal for the Holdo who only decides to hyperspace-ram Snoke's ship after most of the transports have been blown away. I think the most pointless part of the film though was the whole trip to Canto Bight and back, their mission ended in total failure and got most of the remaining rebels killed.

The action on Crait was similarly pointless, with a bunch of lopsided piece-of-shit speeders that accomplish nothing- even Finn's planned heroic sacrifice to take out the siege cannon was stopped. How did he manage to drag the unconscious Rose all the way back to the base anyway, they had to be several miles out? The highlight of that was definitely Rey and Chewie showing up to pick off all the TIE fighters.

Complaints that XYZ event in a movie are "pointless" are derived from getting used to plotting in blockbusters where everything that happens in the film is part of some grand Rube Goldberg plot machine that somehow has to 'pay off' as part of the victorious finale, as opposed to merely being there to serve the character's arcs, even if it fails.

As to Canto Bight specifically, the ending of the movie (the children shown being inspired by Luke's actions on Crait, the Rebel symbol ring that Rose gave the child etc) wouldn't work without it. The point of Canto Bight is to serve Finn and Rose's character and to set up that ending, while also exploring a seedy underbelly of galactic society (i.e. war-profiteering) through the setting and DJ's character. And also, the plot of the film doesn't work without it occurring since the climax of the film is built around the Resistance's plan getting blown.

So wait there is almost slavery, FO goons openly circling everywhere but you did not get the message Canto was not under Republic jurisdiction? And I mean, even if it was, the Republic’s “poof”! Gone.

Message was OK. Galaxy is in anarchy. Rebels and FO are just paramil factions, lots of profit to be made on selling shit to them.

State analogies do not explain adequately. I brought up Lord of War for a reason. It also dealt with state collapse which opened huge stocks of advanced weaponry to unscrupulous sellers. See a parallel there with New Repubs getting wiped out last film? Well, there.

As to whether it could be improved upon - sure. But it works as is, too, this pathetic “but what bout legal trade” shit is just funny, childish and nauseating.

The New Republic collapsed like yesterday as far as TLJ's concerned. Not enough time for everyone in Canto to get rich on arms dealing and go there.

Rose's supposition that Arms Dealing is the only way to get this rich and that Canto is literally nothing but arms dealers can be charitably considered hyperbole.

K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-01-22 05:26am So wait there is almost slavery, FO goons openly circling everywhere but you did not get the message Canto was not under Republic jurisdiction? And I mean, even if it was, the Republic’s “poof”! Gone.

When were there FO goons on Canto Bait? The guys who arrested Finn and Rose were the local Police force.

I don't remember anything on Canto Bait that looked like First Order...