StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Crazedwraith wrote:Maybe you should just admit that other people are more bothered by it than you... and that that's okay?

It's okay with me until they start relying on hypocritical arguments to back their opinions up.

Channel72 wrote: Also it's hilarious that even after blowing up the Deathstar, they act like everything's okay and they can just sit around and have an award ceremony on their now-revealed hidden base. Why didn't like 10 Star Destroyers come out of hyperspace and immediately blast that temple on Yavin IV to smithereens immediately after the Deathstar exploded?

It may have been a matter of pride for Tarkin, who wanted his baby to have credit for destroying the Rebel base. He never anticipated that the Rebels could destroy the Death Star- and with good reason. It took a Force-sensitive pilot with a smuggler watching his six to be able to destroy the Death Star.

Wasn't the base at Yavin IV subsequently invaded and destroyed in rather short order anyways?

It wasn't instant but it didn't take long for the Empire to respond with overwhelming force.

amigocabal wrote:

Channel72 wrote: Also it's hilarious that even after blowing up the Deathstar, they act like everything's okay and they can just sit around and have an award ceremony on their now-revealed hidden base. Why didn't like 10 Star Destroyers come out of hyperspace and immediately blast that temple on Yavin IV to smithereens immediately after the Deathstar exploded?

It may have been a matter of pride for Tarkin, who wanted his baby to have credit for destroying the Rebel base. He never anticipated that the Rebels could destroy the Death Star- and with good reason. It took a Force-sensitive pilot with a smuggler watching his six to be able to destroy the Death Star.

Yeah, there's lots of reasons we can make up. Certainly, after the Death Star inexplicably blew up, the Empire was probably very confused as to what the hell happened. So certainly it could have taken a bit of time for them to respond to the news, figure out what was going on, and send some Star Destroyers over to Yavin IV.

But the point I'm making is more from the perspective of the rebels. Even if there's all kinds of reasons why the Empire's response might be delayed, the Rebels had no way of knowing what was going on with the Imperial side of things. There was no reason they should have felt safe to just "hang around" on Yavin. They should have immediately evacuated the second Leia showed up.

Channel72 wrote:

amigocabal wrote:

Channel72 wrote: Also it's hilarious that even after blowing up the Deathstar, they act like everything's okay and they can just sit around and have an award ceremony on their now-revealed hidden base. Why didn't like 10 Star Destroyers come out of hyperspace and immediately blast that temple on Yavin IV to smithereens immediately after the Deathstar exploded?

It may have been a matter of pride for Tarkin, who wanted his baby to have credit for destroying the Rebel base. He never anticipated that the Rebels could destroy the Death Star- and with good reason. It took a Force-sensitive pilot with a smuggler watching his six to be able to destroy the Death Star.

Yeah, there's lots of reasons we can make up. Certainly, after the Death Star inexplicably blew up, the Empire was probably very confused as to what the hell happened. So certainly it could have taken a bit of time for them to respond to the news, figure out what was going on, and send some Star Destroyers over to Yavin IV.

But the point I'm making is more from the perspective of the rebels. Even if there's all kinds of reasons why the Empire's response might be delayed, the Rebels had no way of knowing what was going on with the Imperial side of things. There was no reason they should have felt safe to just "hang around" on Yavin. They should have immediately evacuated the second Leia showed up.

Well, if you think about it, there's no reason the rebels wouldn't/shouldn't simply have a C&C transport, which can make landfall on a planet, and they simply operate out of that... I'm sure there's no technological reason why they couldn't, and it'd certainly be easier to quickly pack up and move as needed...

Of course, the reason, IMO, that they had the big celebration in the end of ANH is that they probably didn't know if they'd get to make the sequel(s).

biostem wrote: Of course, the reason, IMO, that they had the big celebration in the end of ANH is that they probably didn't know if they'd get to make the sequel(s).

Quite true, and that's why Splinters of the Mind's Eye exists.

Also bear in mind that for thematic reasons, Lucas wanted a WWII feel to the story. A mobile flying base (well, sort of a flying base) would have been a little too high-tech for that. He wanted controllers at radios, people drawing plots on maps, commanders talking to the pilots, etc. It could have been pulled off as a mobile headquarters... but a.) odds are pretty good he just didn't think of that because he hadn't thought that far ahead at all, and b.) it would quite possibly have cost too much at the time.

Elheru Aran wrote:

biostem wrote: Of course, the reason, IMO, that they had the big celebration in the end of ANH is that they probably didn't know if they'd get to make the sequel(s).

Quite true, and that's why Splinters of the Mind's Eye exists.

Also bear in mind that for thematic reasons, Lucas wanted a WWII feel to the story. A mobile flying base (well, sort of a flying base) would have been a little too high-tech for that. He wanted controllers at radios, people drawing plots on maps, commanders talking to the pilots, etc. It could have been pulled off as a mobile headquarters... but a.) odds are pretty good he just didn't think of that because he hadn't thought that far ahead at all, and b.) it would quite possibly have cost too much at the time.

I know larger ships like Acclamators are shown landing on planets, but can a Corellian Corvette, like the Tantive/Blockade Runner make planetfall?

biostem wrote:

Elheru Aran wrote:

biostem wrote: Of course, the reason, IMO, that they had the big celebration in the end of ANH is that they probably didn't know if they'd get to make the sequel(s).

Quite true, and that's why Splinters of the Mind's Eye exists.

Also bear in mind that for thematic reasons, Lucas wanted a WWII feel to the story. A mobile flying base (well, sort of a flying base) would have been a little too high-tech for that. He wanted controllers at radios, people drawing plots on maps, commanders talking to the pilots, etc. It could have been pulled off as a mobile headquarters... but a.) odds are pretty good he just didn't think of that because he hadn't thought that far ahead at all, and b.) it would quite possibly have cost too much at the time.

I know larger ships like Acclamators are shown landing on planets, but can a Corellian Corvette, like the Tantive/Blockade Runner make planetfall?

well the ROTS version could (in fact we see it land in Alderaan at the end of that film and I don't see why the ANH-ROTJ shouldn't be able to)

There's also the transports they used to evacuate Hoth but as biostem said, Lucas likely simply didn't think of it-though I don't buy the 'too high tech' angle. There was plenty of C&C, plotting on maps, and controllers on radios on command ships in WW2.

It could just be that the Rebels don't have enough ships to do it. It takes less ships to carry X cubic meters of equipment packed up for transport than to transport it spread out and set up ready for use, so if the Rebels don't have the tonnage they might be making the most of it by unpacking their C&C gear into the plentiful planetside space rather than the limited on board space.

Lord Revan wrote:

biostem wrote:I know larger ships like Acclamators are shown landing on planets, but can a Corellian Corvette, like the Tantive/Blockade Runner make planetfall?

well the ROTS version could (in fact we see it land in Alderaan at the end of that film and I don't see why the ANH-ROTJ shouldn't be able to)

I can't remember whether anything was in the film, but in the novelisation, 3PO commented during the opening battle that "we can't enter atmosphere with our main stabiliser fin destroyed", implying that under normal circumstances they could do so.

Galvatron wrote:All this bitching about TFA is just making me realize how dumb ANH was at times, especially after they escaped from the Death Star. I mean, why didn't Han just jump to hyperspace? They were presumably far away from any gravity wells or tractor beams so why hang around and fight the sentry TIEs?

Yeah - well, the rules for when you can jump to hyperspace change all the time. In TFA, Han jumps to hyperspace from inside a docking bay.

But as for engaging the TIE fighters - given that the whole thing was a ploy, it's funny to imagine what sort of instructions Vader/Tarkin actually gave to these TIE fighter pilots.

"Okay so, we're doing this thing where we're secretly tracking the Falcon, but we need to make it look like we're actually trying to kill them, so just like, you know, sort of like shoot at them a little, but don't actually blow them up - just make it look like you're trying to blow them up."

"But sir what if we accidentally disable them?"

"No, no... don't do that. Just like fly around menacingly and sort of shoot at them."

Or maybe the TIE fighter pilots weren't even in on the scheme and Vader just like selected the least competent pilots he had available?

I mean we can nitpick this to death, just like people are doing with TFA.

A more funny dialogue for that would be to add "and TIE #2, you are going to die to make it convincing."

It not actually ridiculous. Military units make faint attacks all the time knowing their effort will have no immediate goal while they expose themselves to potential death while also trying to make themselves seem stronger or weaker than they actually are.

Also military units can harass their opponents in effort to make do a preferred action.

Channel72 wrote:The point is the OT has lots of flaws, but since everyone universally loves it, people are way more willing to expend energy rationalizing things. Leia returning to Yavin IV when she knew damn well they were being tracked makes no fucking sense, no matter how you rationalize it. All the rationalizations are wild guesses that still fail when you think about them for more than a second. Even if Yavin IV (or Dantooine, prior to that) wasn't the only Rebel base, it was at least damn important if the way characters act in ANH means anything.

Except for the obvious reason Leia acted as she did: She's an impetuous teenage girl.

Cykeisme wrote:I wonder if we'll see Coruscant again.
I find it really strange that we didn't.

Are the new movies going to ignore the existence of the prequel trilogy, as well as the EU?

For all its purported flaws, I felt the prequel trilogy did some bloody amazing worldbuilding, both in terms of the political scenario and the actual galaxy and planets.
I hope they don't discard all that.

I doubt they'll show Coruscant or the other planets from the prequels. That would require them to (a) stop aping the old trilogy and (b) admit to using CGI -which for Disney is what porn is for fundies: Something they like to pretend is evil, and something they tell everyone they don't use, but something they use more than almost everyone else.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Unfortunately, I think the Prequel haters (or people misguidedly willing to pander to them) are running the show now.

On the other hand, it may be that having established their credentials, more or less, with the whiny OT fan crowd, they'll be a little less concerned about sucking those peoples' cocks in the future.

Don't bet on it. The baying mob is so toxic and obnoxious that Disney wouldn't dare cross them. Prequel bashers are the original GamerGaters, only without the charm or the rugged masculinity of the stalkers of Zoe Quinn.

Cykeisme wrote: Are the new movies going to ignore the existence of the prequel trilogy, as well as the EU?

The Romulan Republic wrote:Unfortunately, I think the Prequel haters (or people misguidedly willing to pander to them) are running the show now.

Note, literally one of the first lines out of anyone's mouth in TFA is Lar Son Tekka (von Sydow) talking about how there can be no balance in the Force without the Jedi. That's a concept with no basis whatsoever in the Original Trilogy. Its entirely Prequel Trilogy derived.

Elfdart wrote:I doubt they'll show Coruscant or the other planets from the prequels. That would require them to (a) stop aping the old trilogy and (b) admit to using CGI -which for Disney is what porn is for fundies: Something they like to pretend is evil, and something they tell everyone they don't use, but something they use more than almost everyone else.

I know they were really harping on the practical effects angle, but Hosnia was so much like CGI Coruscant that I'm pretty sure most average viewers actually thought that Coruscant from the prequels just blew up.

RogueIce wrote: I know they were really harping on the practical effects angle, but Hosnia was so much like CGI Coruscant that I'm pretty sure most average viewers actually thought that Coruscant from the prequels just blew up.

Yeah, only a more involved Star Wars fan would be able to tell the difference (i.e. the planet had a clear surface with a clear ocean, it was considerably less densely packed with buildings than Coruscant).

In any event, their emphasizing the use of practical effects angle was IMO pretty justified. It just looks considerably better than the prequels, especially in every action sequence (excluding ship-to-ship scenes, obviously). Heck, many of the real sets of AotC and RotS (not TPM) simply didn't look real.

EDIT:

Elfdart wrote:Don't bet on it. The baying mob is so toxic and obnoxious that Disney wouldn't dare cross them. Prequel bashers are the original GamerGaters, only without the charm or the rugged masculinity of the stalkers of Zoe Quinn.

How is that even remotely the same? Who are 'prequel bashers' running around the internet harassing? That they're shit-to-mediocre films is an entirely mainstream opinion with very few dissenting voices of any real persuasive power. The sole argument one could make for a crap film like TPM being popular as opposed to disliked was its box office success - something it never would have achieved if not for the existence of the Original Trilogy (note the subsequent AotC going on to be the lowest grossing film of the PT and becoming the first SW film to be outgrossed in its year of release - surely an indication that the shine had come off).

Going by that reason alone (leaving aside all the other reasons why TFA is a far superior film to TPM - which are many), by that logic we would have to conclude that Disney made the right call with TFA - after all, its destroyed TPM's box office performance and is the highest grossing film in the franchise by a gargantuan amount only a month after its release. And that's off the back of a 10 year period of prequel bashing, not a 16 year period of pining after the OT and a widespread belief TPM was going to be amazing.

Vympel wrote:How is that even remotely the same? Who are 'prequel bashers' running around the internet harassing?

There's apparently a small, but vocal minority of pathetic neckbearded Stoklasa worshippers who masturbate to slave Leia action figures in their parents' basements yet are influential enough to dictate Lucasfilm's Georgeless creative decisions.

Lord Revan wrote:

biostem wrote:

Elheru Aran wrote:
Quite true, and that's why Splinters of the Mind's Eye exists.

Also bear in mind that for thematic reasons, Lucas wanted a WWII feel to the story. A mobile flying base (well, sort of a flying base) would have been a little too high-tech for that. He wanted controllers at radios, people drawing plots on maps, commanders talking to the pilots, etc. It could have been pulled off as a mobile headquarters... but a.) odds are pretty good he just didn't think of that because he hadn't thought that far ahead at all, and b.) it would quite possibly have cost too much at the time.

I know larger ships like Acclamators are shown landing on planets, but can a Corellian Corvette, like the Tantive/Blockade Runner make planetfall?

well the ROTS version could (in fact we see it land in Alderaan at the end of that film and I don't see why the ANH-ROTJ shouldn't be able to)

Well, we do see an ANH/ROTJ model landing on Toydaria in TCW.

Galvatron wrote:

Vympel wrote:How is that even remotely the same? Who are 'prequel bashers' running around the internet harassing?

There's apparently a small, but vocal minority of pathetic neckbearded Stoklasa worshippers who masturbate to slave Leia action figures in their parents' basements yet are influential enough to dictate Lucasfilm's Georgeless creative decisions.

Considering that Disney is inviting this kind of fans onto sets for publicity stunt AND hired a writer for SW: Rouge One with a history of posting comments like "George Lucas raped my childhood", I think that is something fairly apparent.

Although the writer was embarrassed when fans found out about it that he tried to delete all of his forum posts. This is the exact bunch of people that Lucasfilm under Kennedy were hiring.

ray245 wrote:

Galvatron wrote:

Vympel wrote:How is that even remotely the same? Who are 'prequel bashers' running around the internet harassing?

There's apparently a small, but vocal minority of pathetic neckbearded Stoklasa worshippers who masturbate to slave Leia action figures in their parents' basements yet are influential enough to dictate Lucasfilm's Georgeless creative decisions.

Considering that Disney is inviting this kind of fans onto sets for publicity stunt AND hired a writer for SW: Rouge One with a history of posting comments like "George Lucas raped my childhood", I think that is something fairly apparent.

Although the writer was embarrassed when fans found out about it that he tried to delete all of his forum posts. This is the exact bunch of people that Lucasfilm under Kennedy were hiring.

Like Vympel said, that the prequels are "shit-to-mediocre films is an entirely mainstream opinion with very few dissenting voices of any real persuasive power." Disney and Lucasfilm know this.

Cykeisme wrote: Are the new movies going to ignore the existence of the prequel trilogy, as well as the EU?

It's very brief, but we do get this detail
from www.independent.co.uk

During a flashback scene brought about by Rey touching Luke’s old lightsaber, a voice is heard whispering the name ‘Rey’.
It was originally thought that the voice actor who played Kenobi in the Clone Wars TV series, James Arnold Taylor, said the name out loud, yet he revealed on Twitter that director JJ Abrams got McGregor to overdub his voice.

He wrote on Twitter: “It was me originally but they replaced me with some guy named Ewan McSomething…”

···

JJ Abrams has since confirmed that it is McGregor's voice being heard in the flashback, telling Entertainment Weekly: "You do hear a little bit of Yoda. You hear Luke yelling out, ‘Nooo!’ from that moment in Empire. And you hear Obi-Wan at the end say, ‘Rey … these are your first steps."

It keeps annoying me that people keep calling a 'flashback' what is clearly a Force-vision. But, anyway...

It keeps annoying me that people keep calling a 'flashback' what is clearly a Force-vision. But, anyway...

It depends - if those are past events that she is recalling, then it is in fact a flashback, regardless of whether it was brought on by the force or not.