What Galaxy/Sci Fi Series Can Compete with the Empire?

psyburn21 · Post by **psyburn21** » 2004-12-20 12:21am

I recently recall seeing a calc on Gallforce weaponry on the explosion from the first movie, as I remember that explosion was quite a whopper even by SWs.

I'm reading a few good ones that might be a good fight for the Empire. But i am not going to post them for awhile untill I get one more book and read them all. But as a sneak peak:

Spider Series by Micheal Gear
I think a few people have read "The Artifact" which is a prolog to this book series. Ships are planet destroyers even before lost tech upgrades but there might be a dozen or so ships. A good qualilty vs Quantity debate.

Starhawk by MacK Maloney
Hard call to make on this one. Might be better suited for 4th Empire and Lensmen debates but they seem to have a lack on range weapons and some very explotable weaknesses in cap ships. But as an example of thier power their is a funny SWs parody segment where the main characters in the backwaters of the galaxy (that think the Empire ruling the majority of the galaxy is a myth), breifly help a princess fight rebels that have a Death Star. And it gives the impression that the Death Star is this galaxies version of a redneck's old shotgun in terms of technology.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2004-12-20 04:47pm

According to the calcs we ran over here, the primary beams of a Lensman Galactic Patrol supermauler have a mid-range yield of 3.337e14 tons. Combine that with their superior ftl and good numbers ~80 million capital ships at one point, and the GP should have little trouble taking on the GE. I have always maintained, however, that Kimball Kinnison would probably just infiltrate the GE, replace the Emperor with himself, and enact democratic reforms. [/url]

psyburn21 · Post by **psyburn21** » 2004-12-22 12:36am

Currald wrote: I have always maintained, however, that Kimball Kinnison would probably just infiltrate the GE, replace the Emperor with himself, and enact democratic reforms. [/url]

It would be interesting fight between a Jedi/Dark Sith and a later stage Lensmen. I will always hold that the later stage would hold the advantage with those mind attacks.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2004-12-29 09:45pm

Second Stage Lensman training seems to be very comprehensive and scientific. They are prescisionists, those L2s, not the sort of mystical, emotion-based wizards who engage in force manipulation. Still, a Force user's penchant for precognition could give a Sith Lord or Jedi Master a significant edge.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-12-30 11:40am

an online comic series, Schlock Mercenary.

People in personal armor can withstand a fall from low orbit (both heat of re-etry and actual impact), some of the biggest Earth vessels (Battleplates, named after the tectonic plates they cover) can crush other warships into spheres of neutronium or just immobilize/kill the crew through shields. "Plasma guns" are common and inexpensive and fire beams of fusing plasma with little recoil (although if you turn off the recoil dampeners, it becomes a glorified fusion ramscoop). Gravy-guns are commonplace (gravity guns), and all sorts of outlandish cartoon laws can be found to apply.

In addition, impactors can be made on demand that can penetrate armored vessels at high percentages of c and survive to relay design improvements for the next iteration.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 11:52am

Hmmm ... trying to figure if any of the empires in Niven's 'Known Space' universe could take on the Empire.

Humanity? Nah, we're luckier than hell to beat the Kzin.

Kzin Empire? Vast and powerful, but only very late in the war with men do they develop faster-than-light starships, so a huge tactical disadvantage against the Empire ... only advantage against the Emperor and Vader is that they're genetically coded to react homicidally to attempts at mind control.

The race that would stand a chance against the Empire would be the Slaver Empire of the Thrint. The thrintun are lazy and stupid, but they have an irresistible telepathic power that allows an individual Slaver to enslave entire planets (through amplifier technology) and turn them into happy, obedient followers. This gave them a nasty array of weaponry from the technological races they enslaved ...

The Pak might give the Empire a good fight ... superintelligent warriors, their major problem is cooperation within the species. Just too competitive.

The Puppeteers .... that might be the most interesting story, because they'd NEVER face the Empire directly, but they'd manipulate other races into doing it if they saw the Empire as a threat. The whole Rebellion and the training of Luke Skywalker could just be an elaborate Puppeteer plot.

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2004-12-30 12:21pm

Matt Huang wrote:an online comic series, Schlock Mercenary.

People in personal armor can withstand a fall from low orbit (both heat of re-etry and actual impact), some of the biggest Earth vessels (Battleplates, named after the tectonic plates they cover) can crush other warships into spheres of neutronium or just immobilize/kill the crew through shields. "Plasma guns" are common and inexpensive and fire beams of fusing plasma with little recoil (although if you turn off the recoil dampeners, it becomes a glorified fusion ramscoop). Gravy-guns are commonplace (gravity guns), and all sorts of outlandish cartoon laws can be found to apply.

In addition, impactors can be made on demand that can penetrate armored vessels at high percentages of c and survive to relay design improvements for the next iteration.

Dont forget the Terraport smart torpedos. Plus Petey especial the new petey would give them a fit. Plus how how many Dison spheres were there.

Atlan · Post by **Atlan** » 2004-12-30 05:25pm

Chmee wrote:Hmmm ... trying to figure if any of the empires in Niven's 'Known Space' universe could take on the Empire.

Humanity? Nah, we're luckier than hell to beat the Kzin.

Kzin Empire? Vast and powerful, but only very late in the war with men do they develop faster-than-light starships, so a huge tactical disadvantage against the Empire ... only advantage against the Emperor and Vader is that they're genetically coded to react homicidally to attempts at mind control.

The race that would stand a chance against the Empire would be the Slaver Empire of the Thrint. The thrintun are lazy and stupid, but they have an irresistible telepathic power that allows an individual Slaver to enslave entire planets (through amplifier technology) and turn them into happy, obedient followers. This gave them a nasty array of weaponry from the technological races they enslaved ...

The Pak might give the Empire a good fight ... superintelligent warriors, their major problem is cooperation within the species. Just too competitive.

The Puppeteers .... that might be the most interesting story, because they'd NEVER face the Empire directly, but they'd manipulate other races into doing it if they saw the Empire as a threat. The whole Rebellion and the training of Luke Skywalker could just be an elaborate Puppeteer plot.

The Outsiders.
Especially after A Darker Geometry.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2004-12-30 05:44pm

Atlan wrote:
Chmee wrote:Hmmm ... trying to figure if any of the empires in Niven's 'Known Space' universe could take on the Empire.

Humanity? Nah, we're luckier than hell to beat the Kzin.

Kzin Empire? Vast and powerful, but only very late in the war with men do they develop faster-than-light starships, so a huge tactical disadvantage against the Empire ... only advantage against the Emperor and Vader is that they're genetically coded to react homicidally to attempts at mind control.

The race that would stand a chance against the Empire would be the Slaver Empire of the Thrint. The thrintun are lazy and stupid, but they have an irresistible telepathic power that allows an individual Slaver to enslave entire planets (through amplifier technology) and turn them into happy, obedient followers. This gave them a nasty array of weaponry from the technological races they enslaved ...

The Pak might give the Empire a good fight ... superintelligent warriors, their major problem is cooperation within the species. Just too competitive.

The Puppeteers .... that might be the most interesting story, because they'd NEVER face the Empire directly, but they'd manipulate other races into doing it if they saw the Empire as a threat. The whole Rebellion and the training of Luke Skywalker could just be an elaborate Puppeteer plot.
The Outsiders.
Especially after A Darker Geometry.

Aren't they even less likely to fight somebody than the Puppeteers? They live in vacuum on planets the Empire wouldn't want.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-12-30 07:57pm

dragon wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:an online comic series, Schlock Mercenary.

People in personal armor can withstand a fall from low orbit (both heat of re-etry and actual impact), some of the biggest Earth vessels (Battleplates, named after the tectonic plates they cover) can crush other warships into spheres of neutronium or just immobilize/kill the crew through shields. "Plasma guns" are common and inexpensive and fire beams of fusing plasma with little recoil (although if you turn off the recoil dampeners, it becomes a glorified fusion ramscoop). Gravy-guns are commonplace (gravity guns), and all sorts of outlandish cartoon laws can be found to apply.

In addition, impactors can be made on demand that can penetrate armored vessels at high percentages of c and survive to relay design improvements for the next iteration.
Dont forget the Terraport smart torpedos. Plus Petey especial the new petey would give them a fit. Plus how how many Dison spheres were there.

Not quite sure how imperial shields will react to terrapedos.

Petey is a fleet/power onto himself. And he must have access to pretty large-scale fabbers to field his current fleet.

He could simply play fastball w/ the Imperial fleet.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-01-02 01:37pm

DocHorror wrote:In a pure ground battle its likely the Imperium would stomp the Empire. But since the Emprire has Space Supremacy the Imperium would lose.

Just because they got better shock troops(Space Marines) and other special equipment doesn't mean they'll stomp the Empire, heck when it comes to more conventional equipment I'd say the Empire has it better, the IoM seems to give all the good stuff and training to the SM chapters and the rest are like the chinese army in space.

They also don't have very many shock troops(1 million Space Marines), the Empire has 242,500,000 Storm Troopers on it's ISD's alone and even more regular soliders on planets, stations and other garrisons.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-01-02 01:43pm

SirNitram wrote:Really? Wonder where I got 600GT from. Achuultani, those are the tiny-starship-builders who constantly screw up Imperium days because their ships are so tiny they are hard to target?

Actually I think it was because they built 2 million of the little things, the sector the Imperium where located in where known as demon sector because of the imperium, the humans lost the first, second and third times still though but they got better technology each time, by the time of the 4th imperium they had the numbers and technology to completely repulse any achuultiani incursion, though they self destructued before the achuultiani had time to return.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-02 02:53pm

His Divine Shadow wrote: They also don't have very many shock troops(1 million Space Marines), the Empire has 242,500,000 Storm Troopers on it's ISD's alone and even more regular soliders on planets, stations and other garrisons.

Personally, I'm doubting the EU claim that Stormtroopers are an elite force. The idea that the Army of the Republic was better equipped than the Empire's elites rubs me up the wrong way. It also seems very likely to me that RotS is going to show the Army of the Republic becoming the Army of the Empire with none of this elite stormtroopers nonsense...

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-02 03:00pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
DocHorror wrote:In a pure ground battle its likely the Imperium would stomp the Empire. But since the Emprire has Space Supremacy the Imperium would lose.
Just because they got better shock troops(Space Marines) and other special equipment doesn't mean they'll stomp the Empire, heck when it comes to more conventional equipment I'd say the Empire has it better, the IoM seems to give all the good stuff and training to the SM chapters and the rest are like the chinese army in space.

They also don't have very many shock troops(1 million Space Marines), the Empire has 242,500,000 Storm Troopers on it's ISD's alone and even more regular soliders on planets, stations and other garrisons.

SW Stormtroopers' training and gear are on par with 40k Stormtroopers', not Space Marines'. Don't get me wrong, I'm a nut for the Boys in White, but 40k's Stormtroopers are much better suited for the role. The Imperium saves all the psychological-warfare/intimidating look/whatever for the Astartes; 40kTroopers are pure functional practicality, unlike SWTroopers.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-01-02 03:11pm

JediNeophyte wrote:SW Stormtroopers' training and gear are on par with 40k Stormtroopers', not Space Marines'.

Thats what I said, the Empire doesn't really have any ultra heavy infantry units that compare to SM's that I know of, sure we've seen a few uber exo-suits that look like they could give a SM a run for it's money but thats all, the Dark Troopers would have been a real SM equivalent but that project was killed off.

But the SWGE stormies got numbers over the SM's and while the 40k stormies got good equipment they don't seem to have the same kind of armor with the full NBC package and all nor do they seem to be used for as many different things.

I do agree with Necronlord that SWGE stormies don't seem like shock troops or elites, they seem like the equivalent to ordinary infantry.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-02 03:22pm

But the SWGE stormies got numbers over the SM's and while the 40k stormies got good equipment they don't seem to have the same kind of armor with the full NBC package and all nor do they seem to be used for as many different things.

This is true to some extent, but don't be so quick to dismiss Guard vehicles on appearance alone. The Leman Russ may look a little silly and consequently suffer from a high profile, but it is a solid MBT nonetheless. Like all things in 40k, they vary from world to world. The most common depiction shows a pretty archaic looking thing, but some forgeworlds (like Ryza, IIRC) manufacture more technologically advanced versions.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-01-02 03:24pm

Actually I meant personal armor, a stormie get's a complete encasement that protects him from radiation and biological agents and built in HUD system.

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2005-01-02 03:29pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:Actually I meant personal armor, a stormie get's a complete encasement that protects him from radiation and biological agents and built in HUD system.

40K stormies definitely have the latter (Malleus explicitly states that Kasrkin do, and they aren't unique in equipment terms AFAIK).

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-02 03:39pm

Kasrkin

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-02 03:42pm

Blasted lack of edit:

Two different styles of Stormtrooper gear. Not full protection against, say, vacuum, but it's close.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2005-01-02 04:55pm

It's not like you're going to unexpectedly find yourself in a vacuum while fighting down the gravity well, anyway.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2005-01-02 08:53pm

Currald wrote:It's not like you're going to unexpectedly find yourself in a vacuum while fighting down the gravity well, anyway.

This does not apply if you are a member of the original Dark Angels Space Marine Legion.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-01-02 09:08pm

I'd also note that storm troopers probably fight alot more in space, on ships and stations and cities.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-02 11:10pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:I'd also note that storm troopers probably fight alot more in space, on ships and stations and cities.

Which ones? Both do it pretty equally from what I've seen.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-01-03 06:50am

SW troopers are more geared for it at any rate, that was my point.