Avengers 2 (Spoilers)

[Ziggy Stardust]

My parents in the main didn't understand much of what was going on, despite my Dad having seen all the other films in the MCU.

I was the same way. For example, what the fuck was the weird swimming pool Thor skinny dipped in to see his vision? That scene came and went so quickly and with absolutely no explanation. There were a lot of little moments like that.

As for the Widow stuff, while I agree the outrage is an overreaction, I think the outrage over that outrage here is also an overreaction. Yes, when you consider the full context of what she was talking about, she wasn't trying to imply "sterile=monster". But the dialogue in the scene really wasn't very well written, and it isn't a completely ludicrous leap to make considering how things were phrased and presented. When I saw the film, I had a little "wait, what did she just say?!" moment during that scene as well, and had to think for a minute before realizing what they were TRYING to say. I don't think people should be outraged over it, but I also don't think people should be acting like it is so utterly ridiculous a conclusion to draw. The film wasn't trying to send a message about sterility, but also could have done a much better job avoiding the potential implication.

[Lost Soal]

My parents in the main didn't understand much of what was going on, despite my Dad having seen all the other films in the MCU.

I was the same way. For example, what the fuck was the weird swimming pool Thor skinny dipped in to see his vision? That scene came and went so quickly and with absolutely no explanation. There were a lot of little moments like that.

That was a Disney mandate fucking with the film. It was meant to be Thor getting answers by being possessed by the Norn and Selvig then questions them and they answer through Thor. Disney fucked with that, I believe because of test audiences.

[Crossroads Inc.]

OK so I JUST Saw it last night. Yah a bit late for most of you here, but wanted to go over a couple of things.

First off people seem to be overlooking the single best character of the movie (IMHO) Ultron himself!!!
I Have seen a lot of people bickering about how “stupid” he was and how “human” he was and how evidently this was not what they were expecting. Well all I can say to that is Thank Gods! I Love the concept of AI and am Frankly sick of AI’s always being cold, emotionless, logical things bent on humanities destruction. It always bugged me how time and time again in movies, AI’s made by very Human people, always end up being total emotionless.
As far as I’m concerned . it was all of Ultrons ‘faults’ that made him so ‘likable’ as a villain. You could see him constantly being confused, unsure and in pain. His plan changes a lot because he isn’t really sure at first just what the hell he’s supposed to be doing or what he is. I think in the beginning he really DIDN’T want to kill all humanity, but probably just get rid of the Avengers and everything they stood for.
The scene were he ‘accidentally’ chops the arm off of the one Virbanium dealer I think was very telling. To me, he seemed genuinely upset by that and genuinely apologetic… Up to a point…
All in all, any ’stupid’ decisions in the movie I think can be mostly attributed to him being much much more Human then he would ever care to admit.

Now… Onto the movie itself. Well were to start.

Well first, how about those flying, laser gun wielding Hydra soldiers? I mean, that some pretty hard core super tech going on there. Tanks with freaking lasers! Soldiers with flight suites! Sure much of it seemed reverse engineered from the Chitari (we are led to assume) but it’s still being produced. Thats got to account for something. I mean shoot, Tony keeps moaning about how Humans are going to get squished by aliens, well shoot if were making weapons like THAT, how far are we from making full on Armed spaceships to defend earth? Shoot thats what Tony REALLY should have designed!

And then how about the Magical MacGuffin plot device of Loki’s Scepter!
So apparently it doesn’t just have the power to mind control people but now has some sort of … Living Super computer in it as well. That, Hydra ‘somehow’ used to make super advanced genetic breakthroughs. I mean, where the Eff does that come from? Why does a mind control staff have a Living super computer thing inside of it, and why does it’s existence suddenly lead to AI and a Homicidal Ultron?

A lot of people had made gripes about the pacing of the movie. I would tend to agree but in a different way. For me the movie moved way WAY too fast. Lets think about it for a moment, just how much time elapsed in the movie? We go from grabbing the Scepter, then 3days later Ultron emerges and then… Well the Movie makes it seems like MAYBE a few weeks pass. The events of the movie might, MIGHT take place over the course of one month… Maybe!
So… We have to somehow accept That Ultron woke up a bunch of half built robots, and in the span of a month, acquired the resources to make several hundred Ultron ‘drones’ oh yeah AND Built a series of Engines and power sources big enough to life a whole CITY into the air… OH! AND smelted down several thousand tons of metal to make his super dooms day device!
Seriously this movie could have so, SO benefited from a cut early with the title “Four months later” or something like that.

Ultra emerges, makes a big speech, and then ‘Vanishes’ goes completely off the grid. Maybe even to the point where the Avengers think he’s gone and, split up, Thor goes back home, they drift apart.. etc..
But nope! It’s ACTION ACTION ACTION right from the get go! Again, it’s not BAD, it didn’t make things NOT enjoyable it just perhaps could have been, handled differently…

Gripes and nitpicks aside, I did LOVE This movie.
Sure it didn’t have the same Pop and Zing as the original, but than again, how could you have topped it? It was damned enjoyable and entertaining.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

My parents in the main didn't understand much of what was going on, despite my Dad having seen all the other films in the MCU.

I was the same way. For example, what the fuck was the weird swimming pool Thor skinny dipped in to see his vision? That scene came and went so quickly and with absolutely no explanation. There were a lot of little moments like that.

That was a Disney mandate fucking with the film. It was meant to be Thor getting answers by being possessed by the Norn and Selvig then questions them and they answer through Thor. Disney fucked with that, I believe because of test audiences.

It looked to me like a thinly-veiled excuse simply to show Thor with his shirt off

The time passed seemed less than that; when Ultron tells Vision he's being Naíve, he responds with "Well I was born yesterday" or words to that effect.

But then again, how could you have topped it?

Exactly what I've been thinking ever since Avengers 1

[Iroscato]

It looked to me like a thinly-veiled excuse simply to show Thor with his shirt off

Always good in my book. Hemsworth consistently stretches my heterosexuality to breaking point

[Lost Soal]

It looked to me like a thinly-veiled excuse simply to show Thor with his shirt off

It was also that. Seems like a reasonable balancing act considering how often we saw Scarlet Witches cleavage

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It looked to me like a thinly-veiled excuse simply to show Thor with his shirt off

Always good in my book. Hemsworth consistently stretches my heterosexuality to breaking point

More like a man crush here

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It looked to me like a thinly-veiled excuse simply to show Thor with his shirt off

It was also that. Seems like a reasonable balancing act considering how often we saw Scarlet Witches cleavage

That cleavage drove me to look up Elizabeth Olsen- I much prefer her as a brunette instead of blonde

[Ted C]

I can accept that Loki's staff had the mind stone in it, but I just can't imagine that Thanos would just kind of abandon it after the events of Avengers.

This is one of the biggest issues. The value of a stone can't really be quantified and Loki as a recovery tool is just stupid. Send a ship to earth and go through the portal yourself. You're Thanos- murder everything is the room with pitiful ease. Take the Tesseract and signal your ship. Bide your time until your ship arrives destroying a SHIELD facility, then leave at your convenience. The idea that Thanos maybe doesn't want to get his hands dirty is all well and fine, right up until you see him doing exactly that and saying 'If you want something done right...'

Thanos' position in his part of the galaxy may not be so stable that he can easily afford to leave his empire unattended. He sent lackeys because he was busy. Presumably, that other business is now concluded, or he has decided it can wait.

Which begs the question- where was the gauntlet? That didn't look like Asgard, which is the last known place it was seen.

The one in Asgard may well still be in the vault. Thanos can presumably build a duplicate.

[Kojiro]

Thanos' position in his part of the galaxy may not be so stable that he can easily afford to leave his empire unattended. He sent lackeys because he was busy. Presumably, that other business is now concluded, or he has decided it can wait.

That's certainly a possibility. It still begs the question though of why give Loki another stone though? My issue isn't that he sent lackeys but that he entrusted lackeys with an infinity stone. A power hungry 'bag full of cats crazy' lackey no less in place of say, Nebula. Thanos surely must have considered that possibility that Loki would betray him- the Herald actually warns Loki of this- as well as Loki failing. And he must consider that the stone may just end up in Asgard, as it actually does. Why the scepter didn't go with them is a mystery since we know Thor more or less demanded it (and Fury didn't argue with him) but I can put that down to Thor not knowing what the scepter was.

[/quote]The one in Asgard may well still be in the vault. Thanos can presumably build a duplicate.[/quote]
I've seen it claimed elsewhere that this is a second gauntlet (indeed the one in Asgard is a right hand gauntlet while this is a left). Given that it resides in the weapons vault of Asgard- a place where Mjolnir was kept prior to Thor acquiring it- it would indicate the gauntlet itself is of some value, that it's not just a housing for the stones. Which isn't to say Thanos can't fabricate a new one, just that it should be difficult. Which is probably why he's stealing one (or I assume he is given his set pieces look vastly different).

[Lost Soal]

Thanos' position in his part of the galaxy may not be so stable that he can easily afford to leave his empire unattended. He sent lackeys because he was busy. Presumably, that other business is now concluded, or he has decided it can wait.

That's certainly a possibility. It still begs the question though of why give Loki another stone though? My issue isn't that he sent lackeys but that he entrusted lackeys with an infinity stone. A power hungry 'bag full of cats crazy' lackey no less in place of say, Nebula. Thanos surely must have considered that possibility that Loki would betray him- the Herald actually warns Loki of this- as well as Loki failing. And he must consider that the stone may just end up in Asgard, as it actually does. Why the scepter didn't go with them is a mystery since we know Thor more or less demanded it (and Fury didn't argue with him) but I can put that down to Thor not knowing what the scepter was.

Its most likely he had to give Loki the stone in order to get to Earth. The both had the same energy signature meaning they likely had a link with each other allowing Loki to travel straight to the Tesseract, however it could only transport one person.
That part is speculation, what isn't is that they needed the Tesseract to open a hole for the army to travel through and the only way to do that is with enslaved and knowledge enhanced helpers which could only be done with the mind stone.

[Iroscato]

As far as I remember, the Infinity Gauntlet that was inside Odin's vault was smaller and less 'clunky' than the one Thanos nicks. So it could very well have been a duplicate, with the real one locked away somewhere else, too dangerous to fall into (or onto, hyah hyah hyah) the wrong hands. I mean the gauntlet itself isn't dangerous as far as I know, but it is the last piece of the puzzle to unlimited cosmic dominion, so makes sense that you keep an eye on that sort of thing.

[Vendetta]

I've seen it claimed elsewhere that this is a second gauntlet (indeed the one in Asgard is a right hand gauntlet while this is a left). Given that it resides in the weapons vault of Asgard- a place where Mjolnir was kept prior to Thor acquiring it- it would indicate the gauntlet itself is of some value, that it's not just a housing for the stones. Which isn't to say Thanos can't fabricate a new one, just that it should be difficult. Which is probably why he's stealing one (or I assume he is given his set pieces look vastly different).

Infinity Gauntlet as seen in Thor:



Right handed, appears to have gems in (which obviously can't be real because someone would have noticed).



Age of Ultron infinity gauntlet. Left hand, no gems. (Also the original in the comics is Thanos' left glove)

The one in Thor isn't the real Infinity Gauntlet.

[Kojiro]

Its most likely he had to give Loki the stone in order to get to Earth.

This is actually something very lacking in detail in the MCU- how do people get around in the galaxy? What sort of FTL do they have? GotG implies that even a small craft like the Milano can get from place to place, and the Ravagers have visited earth (as has Loki). I find it difficult to believe Thanos had no other way to get there.

The both had the same energy signature meaning they likely had a link with each other allowing Loki to travel straight to the Tesseract, however it could only transport one person.

While this is possible, Banner and Stark are capable of knocking up something to scan the planet for the Tesseract. I would expect no less from Thanos. In fact if there is a link with the scepter that should make it all the easier.

That part is speculation, what isn't is that they needed the Tesseract to open a hole for the army to travel through and the only way to do that is with enslaved and knowledge enhanced helpers which could only be done with the mind stone.

Sure, but that assumes the agent you send requires the army as payment. I'm sure Nebula could perform the same extraction from the SHIELD base. Rather than have her hide and try to assemble a portal device, just have a ship pick her up. The only reason to send the mind stone is if you have to send the mind stone, which may be the case but is far from conclusive.

The one in Thor isn't the real Infinity Gauntlet.

I'd prefer to think of it as simply the right hand matching the left we see Thanos acquire. The gems are likely placeholders. Of course in reality it was put in there as an easter egg with them having no clue the MCU would go as big as it did. But we should still assume that anything Odin considers worth locking up has some significant value to it.

I'm still trying to work out if Wanda's visions (specifically the one Stark sees) are prophetic, given how things turned out. Or if they portend later events not yet covered.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Thanos seems very... confident in his ability to deal with people trying to do their own thing while in possession of Infinity Gems. He didn't look worried when Ronin decided to keep the stone for himself, he just looked annoyed. Considering the immense abilities Ronin gained from the stone, this suggests Thanos is an extremely dangerous individual.

[Kojiro]

Thanos clearly has a reputation- he's referred to as 'the Mad Titan'. And we already know Asgard considers two infinity stones in close proximity to be dangerous. I would be very surprised if Asgard didn't know of Thanos, and for that reason gave a stone away to the Collector. Given the pathetic ability of the Chitauri I doubt Asgard is worried about them. But if Odin is worried Asgard can't stop Thanos... well that's one scary dude.

[Lord Revan]

well IIRC in the comics Thanos is one of the most powerful entities in the entire Marvel universe and considerbly more powerful then Thor and similar heroes.

[Meest]

Wish they emphasized his secrecy a bit more in the MCU, the problem is we haven't seen any cosmic powered individuals that Thanos would not want to alert. It's too bad Silver Surfer was out, in the comics there was a whole sub story of just delaying and distracting Surfer so he couldn't tell anyone of the danger. Thanos as of this moment in the MCU should be able to outmatch anyone, Odin level characters would cause him worry but they haven't revealed others. He also does outwit and outmatch some of the stronger defenders of the gems but again not sure who they can introduce at this point. Just going to have to assume there are more advanced races out there that Thanos wants to avoid for now.

Hope they show Captain Marvel or Doctor Strange as having some serious power, no Surfer, no Galactus, Skyfathers, Eternals, Mephisto, can go on and on of all the major players Thanos had to defeat or outwit to get the gems. Also wondering if they'll do the whole Lady Death infatuation, but have a feeling they won't do the complex Thanos character, he usually defeats himself because ultimately he feels he's unworthy, he just wants Death's affection.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Thanos was described in Guardians as "the most powerful being in the galaxy" or something to that effect. We've established that he's an outright unpleasant person, to put it mildly. Nobody actually likes him, with many people even wanting to see him dead. With that many enemies around but nobody openly moving against him, even entire armies... He's gotta be serious trouble.

I foresee a fight between him and Hulk that goes about as well for Hulk as things went for Drax when he tried to take on Ronin. We won't know how he compares to his comic counterpart until we see him in action, but if they keep everyone roughly equivalent to each other there's a damn fine reason nobody has actually killed him. Namely, nobody can kill him. Not even all of Asgard.

[Ted C]

Thanos' position in his part of the galaxy may not be so stable that he can easily afford to leave his empire unattended. He sent lackeys because he was busy. Presumably, that other business is now concluded, or he has decided it can wait.

That's certainly a possibility. It still begs the question though of why give Loki another stone though? My issue isn't that he sent lackeys but that he entrusted lackeys with an infinity stone. A power hungry 'bag full of cats crazy' lackey no less in place of say, Nebula. Thanos surely must have considered that possibility that Loki would betray him- the Herald actually warns Loki of this- as well as Loki failing. And he must consider that the stone may just end up in Asgard, as it actually does. Why the scepter didn't go with them is a mystery since we know Thor more or less demanded it (and Fury didn't argue with him) but I can put that down to Thor not knowing what the scepter was.

It is odd that Thanos would let one of the stones out of his control, but forcing the Tesseract to open a portal may have required sending the Mind Stone through with someone for unspecified techno-magic reasons. If he couldn't go himself, Loki may have been the next-best option. Loki had to open the stable portal in order to get his army, and once he did, Thanos presumably figured he would be able to easily recover both stones, whether Loki turned on him or not. Thanos doesn't really seem to be afraid of someone else being in possession of one of the stones: he didn't seem to be too concerned about Ronan having one, either.

The one in Asgard may well still be in the vault. Thanos can presumably build a duplicate.

I've seen it claimed elsewhere that this is a second gauntlet (indeed the one in Asgard is a right hand gauntlet while this is a left). Given that it resides in the weapons vault of Asgard- a place where Mjolnir was kept prior to Thor acquiring it- it would indicate the gauntlet itself is of some value, that it's not just a housing for the stones. Which isn't to say Thanos can't fabricate a new one, just that it should be difficult. Which is probably why he's stealing one (or I assume he is given his set pieces look vastly different).

It may have been difficult, but there's no reason Thanos wouldn't have the resources to do it.

The existence of the gauntlet in the Asgardian vault (complete with fake stones) also implies that someone has been in possession of the full gauntlet before in the MCU. I wonder what back-story we might get on that.

[Ted C]

That part is speculation, what isn't is that they needed the Tesseract to open a hole for the army to travel through and the only way to do that is with enslaved and knowledge enhanced helpers which could only be done with the mind stone.

Sure, but that assumes the agent you send requires the army as payment. I'm sure Nebula could perform the same extraction from the SHIELD base. Rather than have her hide and try to assemble a portal device, just have a ship pick her up. The only reason to send the mind stone is if you have to send the mind stone, which may be the case but is far from conclusive.

Thanos is clearly running the Chitauri, and one thing they don't seem to have going for them is an interstellar space fleet. Space capable ships, obviously, but we don't know that they have any other way of getting from one system to another besides Tesseract wormholes or "hidden paths between the worlds".

Given his reputation, it seems possible that all of the major interstellar powers of the galaxy -- the Asgardians, Kree, Nova Empire, and anyone else out there -- have conspired to deny the Chitauri (and by extension Thanos) access to interstellar travel.

All speculation, of course, but it would explain why Thanos sent Loki to get the Tesseract instead of a fleet of warships.

[NeoGoomba]

(I haven't seen Avengers 2 yet so this speculation may all be bunk)

I wonder if Thanos in the MCU is sealed up in some sort of pocket dimension that he cannot escape. That little floating rock where his throne is may be his boundary, which could be why he has to work via henchmen and holographic lieutenants. Perhaps he needs the might of all the Infinity Gems to break free? And he has a known rep, which could be why he has a whole species (who look like they have been down and out for awhile) worshiping and serving him in hopes of going along for the ride when he reascends in the galactic scene.

EDIT - and sending Loki with an army may have been preferable than simply sending in Nebula or Gamora to assault SHIELD. I can't see either of those two, or both at once, making it past Captain America (let alone Iron Man) when they travel to Germany to get the iridium.

[Kojiro]

The existence of the gauntlet in the Asgardian vault (complete with fake stones) also implies that someone has been in possession of the full gauntlet before in the MCU. I wonder what back-story we might get on that.

I actually like the idea that Thanos has attempted a previous gathering of stones and was through some mechanism, likely an alliance of some sort, thwarted. Let's say that Asgard, cosmic police they seem to be, were at the head of it and claimed the gauntlet while the stones themselves were scattered among the collaborating races. This could have been millennia ago- the city we saw destroyed in GotG (where Starlord recovers the stone) could have been one of these races. We already know Asgard considers grouping stones together as dangerous, perhaps the gauntlet falls under that classification too? Perhaps Odin (or more likely Bor) magically bound fake gems into the gauntlet, so they could never again be assembled at full power and that is what we see in the Asgard vault. It's just one of a set and not Thanos has gone and got the other one. All pure speculation of course.

Thanos is clearly running the Chitauri, and one thing they don't seem to have going for them is an interstellar space fleet. Space capable ships, obviously, but we don't know that they have any other way of getting from one system to another besides Tesseract wormholes or "hidden paths between the worlds".

Given his reputation, it seems possible that all of the major interstellar powers of the galaxy -- the Asgardians, Kree, Nova Empire, and anyone else out there -- have conspired to deny the Chitauri (and by extension Thanos) access to interstellar travel.

It's also worth noting that the Chitauri in Avengers 1 are unknown to Asgard or any other race they know. That is some top secret level shit. But again we don't really know much about how interstellar travel works. If the Milano is sufficient to get about the galaxy- even the Ravagers have been to Earth- it can't be that hard to move a few agents.

I wonder if Thanos in the MCU is sealed up in some sort of pocket dimension that he cannot escape.

We can rule this out I'm pretty sure. Thanos actually summons Ronan for a physical audience and in the stinger of AoU he's clearly not in his domain.

[Gaidin]

It is odd that Thanos would let one of the stones out of his control, but forcing the Tesseract to open a portal may have required sending the Mind Stone through with someone for unspecified techno-magic reasons. If he couldn't go himself, Loki may have been the next-best option. Loki had to open the stable portal in order to get his army, and once he did, Thanos presumably figured he would be able to easily recover both stones, whether Loki turned on him or not. Thanos doesn't really seem to be afraid of someone else being in possession of one of the stones: he didn't seem to be too concerned about Ronan having one, either.

Well as everyone notes, Thanos is one of the big bads of the galaxy. Sure, he can make a run on earth and kick down the wall and get the Tesseract. But the thing about making that run is, when you're the big bad, people will know you've made a move, and to where. They might wonder why. If Thanos doesn't want them to wonder it's not that odd that he just gambles with a misdirection. It might be largely now that he's decided to stop the misdirection that he has to start dealing with societies gunning for him and those who fight for him. Because, remember, in Guardians, it wasn't that hard to note that Ronan was making a run once he wanted to, even if they could barely stop him. And that was largely Thanos using him. Or trying to anyway. IIRC Ronan decided to do his own thing once he got his hands on the stone.

[Lord Revan]

And in comics it's suggested that subcontiously Thanos doesn't want to win, so he's sabotasing his own plans without realizing it.