StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Given the sheer size of the area we are playing with now...

Why not set things up like a hotel or a series of 1 or 2 bedroom apartments? Much easier to handle psychologically, and you can bring more stuff in personally.

Also, an important question;

How the hell are you planning to get the skilled staff? Hire them and have them move in as an experiment, and then a disaster just happens to hit?

Given our prep time, we could simply learn the skills. Or we could recruit some skilled people now, have them sign up at SDN, and make sure they post a lot.

While we do have a lot of space, building stuff is still going to cost money and take materials. Plus that's a lot more stuff to clean. But I do agree that we should be spreading out a bit. No need to pack people in like sardines.

Don't forget you guys, we are being funded by the US Federal Govt to the tune of several million dollars. Getting labor, materials and staff is not going to be much of an issue.

Yeah, but a million dollars only goes so far.... there's a lot of money, but it's not infinite.

We should get an "accountant" for this then... Someone who knows about the construction bussines who can give estimates about how much it would cost to build "X" amount of underground area.

Hm...it appears that Virginia used to be a major salt producing state (as in mining the stuff) in the past century or so.

This is what a salt mine looks like:

Another thing to consider is a domestic and industrial reservoir in a tunnel.

Site R supposedly has both:

The beauty of something like the salt mine depicted is that the "warehouse space" is simply the unfinished tunnels. Of course, supplies would have to be securely wrapped/packaged/crated, but given the proper location it's really only the living space that needs to be finished out.

And as a bonus, you don't really have to worry about moisture when you're living in a salt mine. I would vastly prefer that to a coal mine. Plus, I imagine given enough time some of our resident artisans might do some good salt carvings in a gallery somewhere.

Shep, is that above map a Saltmine then? How much space is in that, and do you have any better maps of the area?
The layout looks nice and open, plenty of flexible space to build with and the water reservers are indeed VERY handy.

That map is of Raven Rock Mountain Complex aka Site R. Basically, a End of the World Bunker for the US Military.

And... today's sketch:


I got the message "we want more space, less crowding, fewer roommates" so here it is - double accommodations instead of quadruple. The beds are singles with storage above and below. The closet space is between the beds and the rest of the world. There is a work space for each resident. There is also a mutual closet, sink, and a small "living area" in the "bedrooms". Left and right sides of the hall are mirror images, so you can see what's on both sides of the room.



The bathing area is unchanged - but half the number of people are using it.

I made the utility/storage/laundry area a bit larger and removed the internal walls. Sure, there's a washer and dryer there, but it can also be used as a workroom by the residents (anyone needing a dedicated workshop gets one assigned elsewhere, this is for short-term projects) and has lots of storage space for food, dry goods, whatever.


The kitchen is a teeny bit bigger, I added details on the appliances, and took out half the tables. If they have a REALLY big party they can always add tables.



And.... then we have the "living room" or "common area" or whatever the heck we're calling it. I got tired and didn't furnish it - so what do ya'll want there? Couches and tables? Giant TV's? Roulette wheels and blackjack tables?

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Put this together in a few minutes this morning after waking up.
VERY rough idea for a "study hall" Pod.

Would you like me to work that up into a model or do you want to do it all yourself for that one?

Feel free to mess around with it. I am restricted to "2d" art, tried sketchup and never got the hang of it, so do everything in illustrator. As for your new work, well Dig the new Pod type. Would be good for couples perhaps or at least those folks that would do better with more privacy in a two person bunk instead of a four. I do have to say the OCD part of my brain is screaming to increase the size of the bath room to make a perfectly rectangular Pod as opposed to the odd ball edges the version has. All in all very well done. I like the more detailed kitchen, Could easily provide a template for what to put into a larger Mess hall. And removing the walls in the laundry/work room opens up a LOT of space.

Anyways next thing I am working on is hallways. yeah it sounds boring but it is something that is needed for connecting up all the Pods.

As for "Site-R' if it is a military installation, is that off limits to us? Would be a shame, it seems perfect for what we need.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:
As for "Site-R' if it is a military installation, is that off limits to us? Would be a shame, it seems perfect for what we need.

...Yeah it's kinda off limits to us, Q gave you a large amount of cash not control of the US military

... but there ARE other salt mines out there... and they're in civilian hands.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:I do have to say the OCD part of my brain is screaming to increase the size of the bath room to make a perfectly rectangular Pod as opposed to the odd ball edges the version has.

Yeah, me too - although really it IS a "perfectly rectangular pod", as are all the other components in that drawing. So if I do another design I can just, for example, drop in the kitchen already made (that's why there are a few seams on the hallway ways - it marks where the separate units join up. I don't have redraw everything every time.

So I tell myself the extra space is for plumbing. And water heaters, yeah. Something like that.

I´d move away from the conventional hotelroom/baracks style here and check out concepts that are specifically designed for saving space while still providing a high level of comfort.

I´d put in japanese style sleeping capsules for minimum space requirements and maximum privacy (I´d hate to share a room with some guy that snores for 10 years).
Like the 9h hotel for example. You can even make them look cool and put in a high rate of comfort. Therse Sleeping capsules have a TV, wireless LAN and a door to shut out annoying noise.



I´d also tear out that wall that separates the kitchen and the living room - and probably adjust the floor plan so that these two combined were more square shaped - and indroduce a sliding wall system that can easily be rearanged by the inhabitants. You´ve got a whole bunch of people here on limited space and these people will sometimes want to do things together requiring one large room and sometimes they´ll want to do things alone or in smaller groups. If they can put up and down walls at will that problem is pretty much solved.

Multifunctional furniture would be interesting:

Saving space is good, but who wants to live in a beehive for ten years?

Agent Fisher wrote:Saving space is good, but who wants to live in a beehive for ten years?

The most time you´re inside a capsule you´re asleep. It really doesn´t matter if you have a high ceiling. If you sleep in a bunk bed the ceiling isn´t higher either.

BEHOLD! Hallways

A: Vaulted ceiling, during the day ambient lighting to give a basic feeling of a sky and sun over head. during night time, recess lighting along the groves will give a "starry night" effect for further giving a feel of being outdoors.

B: Elevator, spaced at regular intervals, for transport between floors. Also spaced at 'bridge' areas between the walkways to make transporting items easier.

C: Planters in the middle of the hallway, good for flowers, shrubs, even small trees. All to add to the outdoor feel as well as giving much needed color to the underground.

D: Service corridors under main walkways. Large enough for carts and vehicles to pass through for transporting large items quickly to different parts of the Bunkers and Vaults.


Ok ok, now before everyone flips out, let me say this... We NEED open spaces. Humans do not do well confined in closes spaces for too long. yes we can live together in close quarters, but to survive for year after year, for good mental health, we will need good open spaces. The design is a rough concept but gives a much needed "outdoor" feeling that will be deeply needed. More to the point, the larger hallways will be where we be spending most of our time moving around. So if we are walking, why not at least be walking through something that makes us feel more out in the open.

Keep in mind also that the shape given is rather basic despite the curved arches. It isn't too hard to do basic molded cement for making good flowing shapes that are good on the eye. Also the design is yet again modular. You can decrease it to a single level, or increase it to as many floors as needed.

I like it. You could even have indirect lighting in the vaults to simulate day and night so you don't develop a corridor culture. Have the lights turn on every day at 'sunrise', and you can even vary day length according to season.

salm wrote: The most time you´re inside a capsule you´re asleep. It really doesn´t matter if you have a high ceiling. If you sleep in a bunk bed the ceiling isn´t higher either.

You can, however, get up, stretch, move about, do situps, make dinner or have a private conversation in the confines of the room. Or just wake up and stretch your legs without running into a crowd every time. Or ,you know, sit somewhere quietly if you don't feel like talking to a bunch of people.

Look at submarine crews: you could make the same argument, why would they complain about limited bunk space? Most of the time they're in the bunk they're asleep!

Yet submarines have limited endurance due to psychological issues for the crew (even more than basic supplies like food), which stem amongst other things from limited bunk space. On the other hand, people can live for years in two-person rooms even if they're not all that large without developing serious problems.

Is there a reason you couldn´t give people private place else where?

If you have to save space you´ll have to compromise. Personally i find the tubes advantages outweight their disadvantages.

I just looked at submarine bunks and they don´t compare in any way to these tubes. These tubes are far more spacioius and comfortable than any submarine bunk bed i can find.

salm wrote:Is there a reason you couldn´t give people private place else where?

If you're giving them private space at all, then you're not saving space with the tubes at all, just making it annoying to use them.

The main problem would be of course that you'd have to get dressed (in public!) to get there. The moment you wake up, you're essentially in a public space with that tube setup.

Now the TUBES themselves are not all that bad: just not stacked in blocks of fifty like on that pic. There really should be a small private space outside the tubes for every 2-4 people to call their own, instead of the immediate large and public area. Save space on food preparation first, privacy send. People won't go insane from common dining - though I would argue for full-blown caffeterias rather than the self-service setups on Broomstick's sketches. Conflicts will arise and fester over the tiniest shit like who gets to clean up the kitchen counter today and why the shelves are not restocked, only there'd be nowhere to retreat to to cool one's head. Large-scale food preparation is also more efficient in all aspects when you want to feed a thousand people or so. Have small food preparation spaces for local "block parties" and such, designed to be used rarely rather than for everyday eating.

I used submarine bunks as an extreme example, but remember we're not staying there for six months while on a ballistic patrol, we're gonna have to live there for DECADES.