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Is he referring to the denizens of heaven themselves, or to a source outside the bubble universe?So the power to raise others has come to me, perhaps from those beyond the gates.
Yes, of course. In the sand storm segment I mentioned, there is a paragraph stating that the elders needed to walk more, and they felt good about living in a small town (not sure about the specifics, that`s the idea). Also, in the segment where the police arrest Lemuel, the roads are clearly shown empty, as well as in several other instances in Armageddon in England. Actually, there is too much emphasis on that, now that I think about it.Deebles wrote:Hmm... what do people do in fuel shortages? Examples could be given of ordinary people walking, bicycling, riding horses, using horse-drawn carriages and taking more of those silly tricycle-rickshaws for want of petrol; boardrooms looking into the possibilities of kite ships, freight trains and other fuel-saving measures for larger-scale hauling; some tank crew getting chewed out for driving in a less than fuel-efficient way; vehicles being jettisoned for want of the fuel to power them; shortages of goods that require air-freight (pre commercial portals, anyway). However, when we're following the movements of generals etc., such factors are obviously going to come into it less.darksoul wrote:I believe the story had shown and told, both. there are several instances of that interspersed in the text. The overall effect for me was simple: When the ass kicking started, it sounded easy, but after the early allusions to shortage of supplies, it became a permanent feature of every action taken. So even if not told, the factor was present. then again that`s just me.
There are instances of telling in Exposition mode, (granted, quite a few), some could be removed and some are well justified in story (briefings in Yamantau and the War Room, for example, or soldier taking HEAT rounds from returing tanks in the Hellmouth), and there are instances of showing (the opening scene in Pantheoncide, with the family having to use their whole month ration of fuel to go to Hell, or the arc of old people being struck by the sand storms, which shows this a lot without actually and plainly stated it, IIRC).
How to show ammunition shortages I'll leave to people who know more of military matters than myself.
Two more to go but we are tying up loose ends now and rounding things off ready for the next book.von Neufeld wrote: Was this the last chapter?
"Beyond the gates (notice plural)" is an expression to suggest "powers from above or beyond" - like our "heaven-sent"Kodiak wrote:Is he referring to the denizens of heaven themselves, or to a source outside the bubble universe?
That was an interesting bit, about how Michael-Lan had become "empowered" after Yahweh died. It makes you wonder what the Others in Universe-Three are playing at.Stuart wrote:"Beyond the gates (notice plural)" is an expression to suggest "powers from above or beyond" - like our "heaven-sent"
It was a few hundred years after Christ. So.... Mohammed?Pelranius wrote:Applause, thunderous applause, Stuart.
Ellmas's last try a few hundred years ago, would that be Martin Luther or the Sikh gurus? Sounds a bit too early for Joseph P. Smith (of course, that depends on how you define a few hundred years).
It's just that Baha'i and Joseph Smith were about 200 to 150 years ago, to that doesn't seem like a few hundred (of course, that's a matter of semantics so I might be wrong on that one).tortieconspiracy wrote:The second attempt was a few hundred years after Yeshua, and I'm betting that was Mohammed, but he made a third attempt after that and that's what Pelranius was speculating about. I don't think it was Martin Luther. There was no new revelation in the Reformation. It was all about going back to existing scripture and cutting out the Pope as middleman. I think we're looking for a leader who claimed a new revelation. Joseph Smith fits that description. So does the founder of the Baha'i Faith. I don't know enough about Sikh gurus to comment on them.
Angels are almost immortal. It's something of a truism that long-lived species have a low birthrate. Any angelic Baby Boom may just be because of the war. Otherwise, the natural population growth - aggravated by the low death rate - would have turned Heaven into a low-tech Coruscant millennia agoStuart wrote:But, an angelic baby? That's a once-in-a-millenium event. Then Michael thought carefully. What if angelic infertility was a by-product of Yahweh's obsession with people's private habits. What if now he was gone, there would be more angels born? Interesting.
This answers a few questions."You see Michael, I recognized how dangerous humans were long before you did. So, I thought I would try and steer them into nice, peaceful ways. There was once this Jewish carpenter, Jeshua was his name. I possessed him and filled him up with nice-sounding ideas and had him go around preaching them. It worked quite well too, only the occupying powers got upset and they crucified him. I had to leave him there. I can still hear his screams while he was begging to know why I had abandoned him. Then some nut called Paul took everything I had had him teach, turned it on its head and inside out. What I had designed came out all wrong and caused even more trouble. A few hundred years later, I tried again and that was even worse. Centuries of slaughter and destruction and they weren't over when this blew up. I had one last shot a few hundred years after that and it got even worse. Everything I has taught turned into an excuse for wars upon wars with more wars to argue the results of the first set.
Actually, it might boost the nightclub's business."Now, lets get stoned and talk about something pleasant. I hear female angels are starting to get pregnant. That's going to mess your nightclub up isn't it?"
Pregnant angels being so rare might make them a popular erotic fetish for the angelic population. (Club dancers being fired for not being pregnant might aggravate the post-War Baby Boom.)I was thinking Joseph Smith as well (though being a Mormon, I tend to read it in), but his revelation didn't fit Ehlmas statement:Pelranius wrote:t's just that Baha'i and Joseph Smith were about 200 to 150 years ago, to that doesn't seem like a few hundred (of course, that's a matter of semantics so I might be wrong on that one).
And wasn't Muhammed Gabriel's project?
I think Ellmas's several hundred years after Jesus was Constantine. Wonder if he had a hand with Joan of Arc?
I'm thinking he's referring to Constantine/the Holy Roman Empire and the crusades. It'd be interesting to find that a lot of the visionaries of the last thousand years or so were beholden to visitations from either Demons or Angels in disguise.Ehlmas wrote:A few hundred years later, I tried again and that was even worse. Centuries of slaughter and destruction and they weren't over when this blew up.
Without considering this a "rip-off" of Goering... are you surprised, considering what Stuart has previously said about Goering?Bayonet wrote:Somehow, Michael-Lan reminds me of Goering.
The founding of the HRE occurred 500 years after Constantine I had his vision, and to the best of my knowledge involved to supernatural visions or anything of the sort. Since the flourishing of Catharism was several hundred years after Mohammed, I'd guess, if we're taking "couple hundred" to mean pretty close to 200-300ish years, probably the forerunners of the Cathars-the Byzantine/Balkan Paulicians and Bogomils.Kodiak wrote:I was thinking Joseph Smith as well (though being a Mormon, I tend to read it in), but his revelation didn't fit Ehlmas statement:Pelranius wrote:t's just that Baha'i and Joseph Smith were about 200 to 150 years ago, to that doesn't seem like a few hundred (of course, that's a matter of semantics so I might be wrong on that one).
And wasn't Muhammed Gabriel's project?
I think Ellmas's several hundred years after Jesus was Constantine. Wonder if he had a hand with Joan of Arc?
I'm thinking he's referring to Constantine/the Holy Roman Empire and the crusades. It'd be interesting to find that a lot of the visionaries of the last thousand years or so were beholden to visitations from either Demons or Angels in disguise.Ehlmas wrote:A few hundred years later, I tried again and that was even worse. Centuries of slaughter and destruction and they weren't over when this blew up.
I enjoyed the fact that Elhmas showed up while Michael was stoned, and thus really got caught with his pants down; also, Michael may be a tough and smart bastard, but he can't handle his weedGil Hamilton wrote:Elhmas probably should have been foreshadowed. Him just showing up, infodumping, and then getting stoned seems awfully forced. I'm not sure I like how easily Lemuel was convinced by Michael either, though Michael did pull the age old trick of forcing Lemuel to feel responsible enough for what happened (and carefully omitting his own role in things) that Lemeul is too guilty to go further with this.
It was foreshadowed - in the literary structure, where he was set up as an important, powerful, interesting character and then apparently killed after his first appearance, and in the fight with Yahweh (which I called, BTWGil Hamilton wrote:Elhmas probably should have been foreshadowed. Him just showing up, infodumping, and then getting stoned seems awfully forced.
), when Michael thought he felt Ehlmas answering. His reappearance here was perfect Stuart doesn't seem have a problem blowing away even important characters, even during their first actual appearance. Besides, it's weird that the Angels who survived the nuke seemed to think that Elhmas was under the nuke too.Werrf wrote:It was foreshadowed - in the literary structure, where he was set up as an important, powerful, interesting character and then apparently killed after his first appearance, and in the fight with Yahweh (which I called, BTW
Remember, the thing that was nuked was the nine cohorts that Enatenael (whom Elhmas later claimed was the big angel that was mistaken as him) WASN'T leading. It really isn't clear or hinted at that Elhmas had peaced out before the nuke hit. That probably should have been foreshadowed."Like hell man. Raphael and Michael are good people but they just don’t know humans the way I do. We throw in an assault at the point he suggested sure, but it'll be a feint. The humans will have to respond to it, they have hordes of human civilians helping out at the hell-hole My Auspicious Father created. They'll want to protect them, so they'll pull in units from all around to stop us. Enatenael-Lan, take one cohort of the Incomparable Legion and its human levies. That'll give you 10,000 angels and five times that number of levies. Keep pushing at the forces the humans throw at you. Once they've stripped the rest of their perimeter to stop you, I'll lead the other nine Cohorts and their levies in. They'll punch right through the thinned-out human lines. It'll be rough on you and your Cohort but it'll cost us less overall."
Seconded. Ehlmas is too good a character to get only two appearances, especially since he's the second or third (fourth, at the least) most important being in Heaven's prewar power structure.Gil Hamilton wrote:Elhmas probably should have been foreshadowed. Him just showing up, infodumping, and then getting stoned seems awfully forced. I'm not sure I like how easily Lemuel was convinced by Michael either, though Michael did pull the age old trick of forcing Lemuel to feel responsible enough for what happened (and carefully omitting his own role in things) that Lemeul is too guilty to go further with this.
Agreed. The first foreshadowing we get is during the battle with Yahweh, and even that is vague. The idea that Elhmas is savvy enough to out-trick Michael (who we spend much of the book building up as the Magnificent Bastard to beat all Magnificent Bastards) should itself be built up.Gil Hamilton wrote:Remember, the thing that was nuked was the nine cohorts that Enatenael (whom Elhmas later claimed was the big angel that was mistaken as him) WASN'T leading. It really isn't clear or hinted at that Elhmas had peaced out before the nuke hit. That probably should have been foreshadowed."Like hell man. Raphael and Michael are good people but they just don’t know humans the way I do. We throw in an assault at the point he suggested sure, but it'll be a feint. The humans will have to respond to it, they have hordes of human civilians helping out at the hell-hole My Auspicious Father created. They'll want to protect them, so they'll pull in units from all around to stop us. Enatenael-Lan, take one cohort of the Incomparable Legion and its human levies. That'll give you 10,000 angels and five times that number of levies. Keep pushing at the forces the humans throw at you. Once they've stripped the rest of their perimeter to stop you, I'll lead the other nine Cohorts and their levies in. They'll punch right through the thinned-out human lines. It'll be rough on you and your Cohort but it'll cost us less overall."
