Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

[ThomasP]

The assumption in place is that both sides have their normal capabilities and those abilities will function, subject to reason. The AI gods of Orion's Arm therefore retain their high intelligence and vast computing powers. They are not, however, omniscient. A blindspot or a lack of capacity is generally assumed in the case of such gaps. Considering how badly FTL will slap around causality and/or relativity (which observation of the physical universe overwhelmingly supports) and the resource intensive and hypertech infrastructure required to produce hypermatter and hyperdives even if you know how to do it, such a gap in their knowledge is actually fairly credible.

Understood.

RE: the bolded, that strikes me as a rather bizarre and arbitrary way of categorizing opponents. It's making a statement about their capability that may not be inherent, rather than an artifact of the match-up.

I understand the rationale, but the assumptions seem to stack the deck a little unfairly in a case like this.

[Bakustra]

Buying is not going to be the hard part; the SW economy is such that planets producing bulk grains are profitable exporters. They can barter food if need be, or artworks, or their entertainment products. Even their industrial goods are potentially viable, as exotics or curiosities if nothing else. Medicinally, they do have a workable method of biological immortality. Once the galaxies come into contact, only the most arcane of methods would not be plied by curious freetraders and scouts from Imperial space.

The problem is more that they have to fly to an undefended planet that also has the necessary information about hyperdrive. Given that most small planets are unlikely to have it (much like you won't fin a full library on nuclear physics in every small town), that limits their options severely.

Worst of all, they do NOT have any FTL. Sure, they can use wormholes as shortcuts, but that's only useful if they have already moved a wormhole into place. And their fastest ships get close to C at best. Which means travel times of AT LEAST years, if not decades, depending on how many planets they can choose from.

The Empire would be the ones to make the initial contact, but there are professional scouts and freetraders within the SW galaxy that make their living by exploration. They would quickly follow (or make contact first), and one thing that they might well have for sale is hyperdrives, or at least the ability to sell hyperdrives and deliver them later.

I am wondering if this will come to war at all; surely a superintelligent, highly anthropomorphic AI would be able to recognize the advantage the Empire has, and the length of time that it will be vulnerable even in the best of scenarios, and therefore prefer to play nice and conciliatory, at least initially. Or are the OA AIs all ludicrously patriotic or something?

That's a much more interesting question, which has yet to be explored.

Or are the OA AIs all ludicrously patriotic or something?

No, I've never seen anything indicating the Archai to be stupid like that. If they realize the military advantages of the Empire I'd expect them to do pretty much everything they could to avoid a military confrontation, at least until they can reverse-engineer enough of the Empire's relevant technology to have a good chance in such a confrontation.

I think the question of how that would play itself out is more interesting than a straight-up vs debate.

Well, I have my doubts as to whether they would ever come to blows. I think that any peaceful contact would be preferable to the alternative; OA is large enough, and powerful enough, for the Empire to avoid military conflict, let alone conquest unless they feel there is no alternative. Palpatine would want biological immortality, and his standard means of gaining curiosities has been to negotiate peacefully, as we see with Rokur Gepta and the Ssi-Ruuk. If the OA AIs are willing to work with a repressive society like the Empire (or collaborate with the Rebel Alliance and other resistance movements to destroy it from within) then war becomes highly unlikely.

The assumption in place is that both sides have their normal capabilities and those abilities will function, subject to reason. The AI gods of Orion's Arm therefore retain their high intelligence and vast computing powers. They are not, however, omniscient. A blindspot or a lack of capacity is generally assumed in the case of such gaps. Considering how badly FTL will slap around causality and/or relativity (which observation of the physical universe overwhelmingly supports) and the resource intensive and hypertech infrastructure required to produce hypermatter and hyperdives even if you know how to do it, such a gap in their knowledge is actually fairly credible.

Understood.

RE: the bolded, that strikes me as a rather bizarre and arbitrary way of categorizing opponents. It's making a statement about their capability that may not be inherent, rather than an artifact of the match-up.

I understand the rationale, but the assumptions seem to stack the deck a little unfairly in a case like this.

Well, it's not necessarily inherent, but it keeps both sides similar. It could be argued (if you were a tasteless, humorless clod with no soul) that Star Wars in this instance would build lots of superintelligent AIs and develop bio-immortality and go all transhumanistic-cyber-space-opera-punk-frankensteinian subgenre, because surely they have the capability with all their other technology. Down that path lies childishness (or extra childishness, if you prefer), in my book. So OA has a blindspot with hyperdrive, and Star Wars has one with bio-immortality and superintelligent AIs (or possibly something else, like a cultural objection, depending on what we're talking about specifically). Keep in mind that both sides can develop these things with access, but they start out without any knowledge that they don't already have in-universe.

[Mobius IO]

So OA has a blindspot with hyperdrive, and Star Wars has one with bio-immortality and superintelligent AIs (or possibly something else, like a cultural objection, depending on what we're talking about specifically). Keep in mind that both sides can develop these things with access, but they start out without any knowledge that they don't already have in-universe.

I agree with this but by virtue of OA having super intelligent AIs it is going to be able to develop the capabilities that start off unique to Star Wars much faster then the reverse is true.

Earlier in the tread I compared the human level intelligence to ants when compared to the S6 minds and caught a lot of flack for that. It seems in the cannon of OA I was off but in the wrong direction the S6 minds are far higher then that.

The Greatest Archailects : S6....

Summary.
Intelligence 10 to the power of 12, 13, or even 14 times that of a baseline.

That is 1 to 100 trillion times the intelligence of an human level mind.

[Serafina]

I agree with this but by virtue of OA having super intelligent AIs it is going to be able to develop the capabilities that start off unique to Star Wars much faster then the reverse is true.

Assuming that Star Wars doesn't have supercomputers either.
Given the capabilities of very small droids, their very mature computer technology and their galactic-scale engineering - well, what would they actually have to learn from OA? They are already better at pretty much everything.

That is 1 to 100 trillion times the intelligence of an human level mind.

That's calculation capability, NOT intelligence. There is a difference between the two.

[Uncluttered]

Hmm.Totally didn't consider the Galaxy Gun.Yep.I would have to take it back then.OA is outgunned by the GE in a military confrontation.Too many initial advantages of FTL travel and starbusting firepower.

Do I think the tech base for OA is more impressive and advanced?Yes.Thats a subjective opinion.Do I consider the GE having more firepower than the OA Sephirotics?Yes.That's an undeniable fact.

I'm not so sure. OA has a nasty class of weapons called "stellar weapons" in which they turn a star into a canon. Even if you know the blast is coming, and evacuate via FTL, your infrastructure is burned to a crisp. The only way the Empire would survice attacks like that is to go on the offensive, or become nomadic like the culture.

Also. If it came down to it, I'm pretty sure OA can build faster than the galaxy gun can destroy. The galaxy gun would be useless against a dyson swarm.

Most people from OA use off site backups, which means, that even if you blow up their planet or habitat, they'll just go right on insilico until they rebuild.

The Galactic Empire is mighty, but I wouldn't want to be them in a total war with OA. It's especially bad to go to war with the Diamond Network, a bunch of anti-human AIs who are more than happy to invade the empire itself. These aren't stupid trade federation droids. These are more like skynets angrier, more capable big brothers.

[Uncluttered]

If AIs understood hyperspace, they would already have it. I'm not saying they couldn't figure it out in a comparatively small amount of time with enough data points, which is pretty fucking impressive, but they're short data acquisition tools (FTL sensors) and time to run actual experiments to flesh out their understanding of a brand new batch of physics.

Fair point, so I guess it depends on when you try to invade OA.
In the current era, OA has something called a "tipler oracle" which is a basement universe made for the express purpose of quickly solving complex problems. Time in the basement universe is accelerated. Sometimes the basement universe is made with a different set of physics.

The Oracles are often used to explore hypothetical realities with different physics, for instance a reality in which hyperdrive exists, but post humans don't.

The oracle is the ultimate pinacle of wank, which outdoes all other wank.

But then again, we can't ignore wank just because we don't like it. Otherwise, I would be ignoring the retarded warrior monks, non-newtonian space fighters, money-pit stars, visible laser blasts, asteroid slugs, and the asteroid fields that resemble an accretion disc.

[Mobius IO]

Assuming that Star Wars doesn't have supercomputers either.
Given the capabilities of very small droids, their very mature computer technology and their galactic-scale engineering - well, what would they actually have to learn from OA? They are already better at pretty much everything.

While SW has a lot of computing power there is no evidence they have minds that are much more intelligent then humans.

That's calculation capability, NOT intelligence. There is a difference between the two.

No the quote says "Intelligence 10 to the power of 12, 13, or even 14 times that of a baseline." NOT calculation capability. That is lifted directly from the OA site.

[Junghalli]

Given the capabilities of very small droids, their very mature computer technology and their galactic-scale engineering - well, what would they actually have to learn from OA? They are already better at pretty much everything.

I wouldn't say that. Star Wars doesn't seem to have cheap immortality and as far as I know has never demonstrated anything like angelnetting i.e. mass application of utility fog, and that's just off the top of my head and sticking to the low-end stuff. When you get up to the really wild and ridiculous stuff you have things like the already mentioned Tipler Oracles. It might not be the win for them in a military confrontation (although if I was Palpatine the thought of potentially facing transapient infiltrator-saboteurs potentially armed with everything up to OA's wankiest godtech wouldn't make me sleep very well at night), but when it comes to trade I'd say OA has quite a bit the Empire might be interested in.

[Norade]

Hmm.Totally didn't consider the Galaxy Gun.Yep.I would have to take it back then.OA is outgunned by the GE in a military confrontation.Too many initial advantages of FTL travel and starbusting firepower.

Do I think the tech base for OA is more impressive and advanced?Yes.Thats a subjective opinion.Do I consider the GE having more firepower than the OA Sephirotics?Yes.That's an undeniable fact.

I'm not so sure. OA has a nasty class of weapons called "stellar weapons" in which they turn a star into a canon. Even if you know the blast is coming, and evacuate via FTL, your infrastructure is burned to a crisp. The only way the Empire would survice attacks like that is to go on the offensive, or become nomadic like the culture.

Also. If it came down to it, I'm pretty sure OA can build faster than the galaxy gun can destroy. The galaxy gun would be useless against a dyson swarm.

Most people from OA use off site backups, which means, that even if you blow up their planet or habitat, they'll just go right on insilico until they rebuild.

The Galactic Empire is mighty, but I wouldn't want to be them in a total war with OA. It's especially bad to go to war with the Diamond Network, a bunch of anti-human AIs who are more than happy to invade the empire itself. These aren't stupid trade federation droids. These are more like skynets angrier, more capable big brothers.

It will take a minimum of years before that blast with hit any world targeted seeing as they don't have FTL. So a Stellar cannon might as well be a fuck useless waste of time for all the effect it will have. Not to mention that planetary shield > star. Unless this solar cannon is capable of putting out 1e37joules of energy.

The rest will have trouble reaching any place to infiltrate let alone actually doing so.

If AIs understood hyperspace, they would already have it. I'm not saying they couldn't figure it out in a comparatively small amount of time with enough data points, which is pretty fucking impressive, but they're short data acquisition tools (FTL sensors) and time to run actual experiments to flesh out their understanding of a brand new batch of physics.

Fair point, so I guess it depends on when you try to invade OA.
In the current era, OA has something called a "tipler oracle" which is a basement universe made for the express purpose of quickly solving complex problems. Time in the basement universe is accelerated. Sometimes the basement universe is made with a different set of physics.

The Oracles are often used to explore hypothetical realities with different physics, for instance a reality in which hyperdrive exists, but post humans don't.

The oracle is the ultimate pinacle of wank, which outdoes all other wank.

But then again, we can't ignore wank just because we don't like it. Otherwise, I would be ignoring the retarded warrior monks, non-newtonian space fighters, money-pit stars, visible laser blasts, asteroid slugs, and the asteroid fields that resemble an accretion disc.

So with these pocket universes they still never made a hyperdrive this thsi Tipler Oracle must not be able to research it without evidence of it existing in the first place.

[Mobius IO]

So with these pocket universes they still never made a hyperdrive this thsi Tipler Oracle must not be able to research it without evidence of it existing in the first place.

In the Cannon of OA a hyperdrive is impossible. So the question is if they somehow get shifted into a setting where it is how long would it take for them to get it.

If we go the other way where the Empire is dropped into a universe where hyperdrives won't function then the GE falls apart instantly.

[Norade]

So with these pocket universes they still never made a hyperdrive this thsi Tipler Oracle must not be able to research it without evidence of it existing in the first place.

In the Cannon of OA a hyperdrive is impossible. So the question is if they somehow get shifted into a setting where it is how long would it take for them to get it.

If we go the other way where the Empire is dropped into a universe where hyperdrives won't function then the GE falls apart instantly.

Except that what we use is that hyperdrive is and has always been possible in both universes and the OA AI simply can't think of it.

[Uncluttered]

It will take a minimum of years before that blast with hit any world targeted seeing as they don't have FTL. So a Stellar cannon might as well be a fuck useless waste of time for all the effect it will have.

Even if it takes years, giving you plenty of time to evacuate, you still have a nuked star system.
If anything, this will destroy your economy as fast as your FTL comms will take the speculation.
The amount of refugees on your lawn is going to hurt you more than simply the loss of the star system.

Not to mention that planetary shield > star. Unless this solar cannon is capable of putting out 1e37joules of energy.

You are still thinking too small a scale. The output of a gamma ray burst is 10^52 ergs.
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but that is going to steal the deathstars lunch. Gamma ray bursts are a possible cause for the Fermi Paradox.

The rest will have trouble reaching any place to infiltrate let alone actually doing so.

And why would they have that trouble? OA has interstellar travel. Do you think they will get bored and go back to their basement to play xwing?
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbZMIP4XUE

So with these pocket universes they still never made a hyperdrive this thsi Tipler Oracle must not be able to research it without evidence of it existing in the first place.

You seem to think that OA dwellers don't have hyperdrive because they are stupid. (anything not inspired by Buck Rogers must be stupid I guess) You should assume that the door between universes, Q , my evil mother in law, or whatever CHANGES THE RULES. Otherwise your shiny new ISD will enter on the OA side, find the hyperdrive doesn't work, the shields are down, hypermatter has ceased to exist, and the jedi are shamans in burlap.

A situation like that would make this contest very very short, in OAs favor.
It would make the situation very short in any defenders favor. Startrek, Mechwarrior, stargate, gundam, telletubbies, or my mother in law, etc could just beat back the IMPs to the wormhole and taunt them from the opening.

Also, who says hyperdrive doesn't work in the basement universe?

[Norade]

It will take a minimum of years before that blast with hit any world targeted seeing as they don't have FTL. So a Stellar cannon might as well be a fuck useless waste of time for all the effect it will have.

Even if it takes years, giving you plenty of time to evacuate, you still have a nuked star system.
If anything, this will destroy your economy as fast as your FTL comms will take the speculation.
The amount of refugees on your lawn is going to hurt you more than simply the loss of the star system.

No, knowing that you have at least a light year if not many more years means that you have time to pull out. You also know that they have a limited number of stars they can do this to within easy traveling distance and any star they use for a weapon means one less system for the already slower traveling OA civilization to use for other things.

Not to mention that planetary shield > star. Unless this solar cannon is capable of putting out 1e37joules of energy.

You are still thinking too small a scale. The output of a gamma ray burst is 10^52 ergs.
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but that is going to steal the deathstars lunch. Gamma ray bursts are a possible cause for the Fermi Paradox.

Posting in ergs to make your number look larger does nothing to help your case. Not to mention that your 1x1045J burst will spread over such a distance. If you have a cone of say 1 degree and your target is an earth size planet say 5 trillion kilometers away. Doing the math the area of the cone's base is 121 quadrillion kilometers square. The earth takes up about a billionth of this area and so would only be hit by 1x1036J and thus its shield will hold and the planet is saved. At longer ranges your weapon gets even weaker.

The rest will have trouble reaching any place to infiltrate let alone actually doing so.

And why would they have that trouble? OA has interstellar travel. Do you think they will get bored and go back to their basement to play xwing?
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbZMIP4XUE

They don't have wormholes to travel to in the GE galaxy so their fucked in that regard until they can build some.

So with these pocket universes they still never made a hyperdrive this thsi Tipler Oracle must not be able to research it without evidence of it existing in the first place.

You seem to think that OA dwellers don't have hyperdrive because they are stupid. (anything not inspired by Buck Rogers must be stupid I guess) You should assume that the door between universes, Q , my evil mother in law, or whatever CHANGES THE RULES. Otherwise your shiny new ISD will enter on the OA side, find the hyperdrive doesn't work, the shields are down, hypermatter has ceased to exist, and the jedi are shamans in burlap.

A situation like that would make this contest very very short, in OAs favor.
It would make the situation very short in any defenders favor. Startrek, Mechwarrior, stargate, gundam, telletubbies, or my mother in law, etc could just beat back the IMPs to the wormhole and taunt them from the opening.

Also, who says hyperdrive doesn't work in the basement universe?

Except that isn't how the versus scenario works you ignorant fuck. Both universes are assumed to have always had the same physical laws. Thus the OA computers just missed that possibility.

[Serafina]

Except that isn't how the versus scenario works you ignorant fuck. Both universes are assumed to have always had the same physical laws. Thus the OA computers just missed that possibility.

Or the GE is simply more advanced - Hyperdrive was originally invented by the progenitor races (again, capable of creating wormhole clusters) - so the GE might actually be incapable to research/discover Hyperdrive/space from scratch, but they don't have to, since they already have it.
Or it takes some force capability - the Rakata WERE highly force sensitive after all, they most likely discovered it first and we know that the Force can replicate Hyperspace-feats.

[Uncluttered]

Hi.First time posting in this subforum.Out of curiosity how would the Galactic Empire manage a threat from the civilisations of Orions Arm? Assuming they have the same capacity for interstellar travel and same industrial base,only adding in the addition of wormholes for the Orions Arm societies, how does this fight fare?

In the 2nd scenario, the Galactic Empire at its height attempts an invasion of the Terragen Sphere, with the FTL technology of the SWverse researched and assimilated in the early part of the conflict by the OAverse,giving the SWverse an initial transport advantage. Any difference in the outcome?

Would be curious as to the answer as both seem to be at least Kardashev Type II societies.

Some links
http://orionsarm.com/
http://orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45b177d3ef3b1

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrionsArm

We ignorant fucks would like the OP to clarify how the contact is made.
1. "Standard" inter-universe wormhole, displaced region of space or other
2. Have the laws of physics changed, or were they always the same?
3. Do you wish to explain the reason why OA does not use FTL, and why the GE doesn't have post-humans?
4. Taste Great or Less filling?

[Norade]

Hi.First time posting in this subforum.Out of curiosity how would the Galactic Empire manage a threat from the civilisations of Orions Arm? Assuming they have the same capacity for interstellar travel and same industrial base,only adding in the addition of wormholes for the Orions Arm societies, how does this fight fare?

In the 2nd scenario, the Galactic Empire at its height attempts an invasion of the Terragen Sphere, with the FTL technology of the SWverse researched and assimilated in the early part of the conflict by the OAverse,giving the SWverse an initial transport advantage. Any difference in the outcome?

Would be curious as to the answer as both seem to be at least Kardashev Type II societies.

Some links
http://orionsarm.com/
http://orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45b177d3ef3b1

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrionsArm

We ignorant fucks would like the OP to clarify how the contact is made.
1. "Standard" inter-universe wormhole, displaced region of space or other
2. Have the laws of physics changed, or were they always the same?
3. Do you wish to explain the reason why OA does not use FTL, and why the GE doesn't have post-humans?
4. Taste Great or Less filling?

Really grasping at straws there aren't you?

[Uncluttered]

Really grasping at straws there aren't you?

Only when I pee.

I'll have concede that the planetary shield and the death star is the ultimate zenith of wank.
Being able to withstand a 1 degree gamma ray burst is amazingsuperwank. A natural gamma ray burst has a cone between 2 and 19 degrees, making it that much weaker. OA has no information on how focused an artificial Gamma ray burst is.

"Coruscant" is safe for now. Unless I attack with vong bio-wank, or small bears.

"Coruscants" local economy is fucked though. A gamma ray burst will bbq all the unprotected assets in the star system.

Please don't tell me that some EU writer smoked enough crack to write about a stellar shield.

Never mind: I found one: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kerts-Bhrg_generator

1st scenario: You win! Star Wars has actually outwanked Orions Arm!

[Norade]

Really grasping at straws there aren't you?

Only when I pee.

I'll have concede that the planetary shield and the death star is the ultimate zenith of wank.
Being able to withstand a 1 degree gamma ray burst is amazingsuperwank. A natural gamma ray burst has a cone between 2 and 19 degrees, making it that much weaker. OA has no information on how focused an artificial Gamma ray burst is.

"Coruscant" is safe for now. Unless I attack with vong bio-wank, or small bears.

"Coruscants" local economy is fucked though. A gamma ray burst will bbq all the unprotected assets in the star system.

Please don't tell me that some EU writer smoked enough crack to write about a stellar shield.

Never mind: I found one: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kerts-Bhrg_generator

1st scenario: You win! Star Wars has actually outwanked Orions Arm!

Except that in terms of what the story needed it isn't wank you dumb sack of shit. Wank is what OA does in pretending that it's hard sci-fi when it's softer that your dick after you try masturbating to a pop sciene magazine.

The Vong threat was handled rather poorly, but it was also manipulated by an extra galactic threat for nearly a century before the invasion actually arrived. As for ewoks harming Coruscant, good luck, even in the strangest comics there was still only one ewok brave enough to go off world.

As for Coruscant's economy you can move much of that behind the planet and many low orbital objects can be fit under the shield in a pinch. But hey, you have at least five years to see it coming and likely many, many more, and the longer it takes the weaker it gets. If we assume a wormhole in the outer rim then we get a travel time of at least 300 light years meaning that cone just got 60 times larger and thus orders of magnitude weaker.

[Uncluttered]

Except that in terms of what the story needed it isn't wank you dumb sack of shit.

Poor thing. Do you want a friend? Not me; but I can send you an EZ button.

Wank is what OA does in pretending that it's hard sci-fi when it's softer that your dick after you try masturbating to a pop sciene magazine.

I don't always masterbate to Popular Science, Sometimes I go for the hard stuff, like Technology Review, Seed (if you know what I mean), and Astronomy. You should see what I did all over the Sloan digital sky survey. Not a picture, but the actual survey.

The Vong threat was handled rather poorly, but it was also manipulated by an extra galactic threat for nearly a century before the invasion actually arrived.

Extra galactic doesn't make them special. Star Trek is an Extra-Galactic threat. I guess if you gave kirk enough time, he'd fuck his way to power over the GE huh?

As for ewoks harming Coruscant, good luck, even in the strangest comics there was still only one ewok brave enough to go off world.

I'm going to have to give you this, because I'm sure as hell not going to spend MY life in a basement reading all the starwars comics.

As for Coruscant's economy you can move much of that behind the planet and many low orbital objects can be fit under the shield in a pinch.

I'm sure rearranging the entire space assets will cost nothing in money and time.

So, you want to protect all your stuff by packing it close together in nice little rows? Hmmm. What was that, called, oh yeah, PEARL HARBOR.

But hey, you have at least five years to see it coming and likely many, many more, and the longer it takes the weaker it gets. If we assume a wormhole in the outer rim then we get a travel time of at least 300 light years meaning that cone just got 60 times larger and thus orders of magnitude weaker.

You're so silly! They don't waste their own star, they waste yours.

[Serafina]

I don't always masterbate to Popular Science, Sometimes I go for the hard stuff, like Technology Review, Seed (if you know what I mean), and Astronomy. You should see what I did all over the Sloan digital sky survey. Not a picture, but the actual survey.

You don't always do it? But you do it for OA?

I'm sure rearranging the entire space assets will cost nothing in money and time.

So, you want to protect all your stuff by packing it close together in nice little rows? Hmmm. What was that, called, oh yeah, PEARL HARBOR.

You are a moron.
Or was Pearl Harbor now covered by an nearly-impenetrable energy shield? Gee, i guess you are evidence that wanking can cause brain damage.

You're so silly! They don't waste their own star, they waste yours.

So they have to move billions of tons of equipment into enemy territory with sublight-drives?
That's....extremely underwhelming. And your blast still needs decades to hit anything, since it is still at sublight speeds.
Apparently, you do not understand interstellar distances.

[Uncluttered]

But you do it for OA?

Not hard core enough. Now PNAS articles, they're practically asking for it.

You are a moron.
Or was Pearl Harbor now covered by an nearly-impenetrable energy shield? Gee, i guess you are evidence that wanking can cause brain damage.

You seem to have a brain bug
Nearly-impenetrable, and impenetrable are not the same thing. It's wanktastically strong. But even in your wanktastic world, they are regularly breached.

What if I followed up the shock wave with a swarm of reletivistic kill vehicles sculpted to look like George Lucas.
When you choose to put all your eggs in one broiler like that, you are on the defensive.

So they have to move billions of tons of equipment into enemy territory with sublight-drives?

First off. OA LOVES to move billions of tons around. There is an entire "nation" called the MPA which builds megastructures for fun.
Besides I only need a black hole engine large enough to eat light and electrons. 2 hundred million tons. A miniature black hole is its own ship drive, it practially moves itself.
Drop it in a decaying orbit around your star and it's called a grazer weapon.
As it eats your star, it's also going to transmute the light elements into heavier elements, poisoning the stellar engine. This will cause a type II super nova, and for larger stars, a rotating black hole will form. The magnetic fields will focus that nova. Rotation will cause the event horizon to act like the ultimate laser cavity, turning visible light into gamma rays.

The only reaching part here is the possibility of an artificial black hole; something the LHC is built to find. This is mainstream theory. Planet shields are pure Wank.

That's....extremely underwhelming. And your blast still needs decades to hit anything, since it is still at sublight speeds.

So what. It's still coming, and you can't stop it with your best magic. You'll shit yourself andmove as soon as you know it's on the way. I'll be sure to tell you it's coming.
I've just trashed the real estate value in your neighborhood without so much as driving by the place blasting wu-tang.

And don't forget, even though the Wank is strong with you. I can use a killing star as a smoke screen, following behind will be a swarm of relativistic kill vehicles.

I haven't even opened up the chest of Metric weapons at this point.

Apparently, you do not understand interstellar distances.

Apparently, you don't understand patience. You have contributed nothing to this debate.
At least Norade was able to show, with math, that the magic shield has a chance against a real stellar threat.
You are just a Parrot.

[Ghost Rider]

I know it's never going to happen, and in the past debates prove this. But any numbers, beyond the usual wanking to AI? No?

[Norade]

But you do it for OA?

Not hard core enough. Now PNAS articles, they're practically asking for it.

Fuck off you uniformed little twat. Go pollute some other forum with your no limits OA wank.

You are a moron.
Or was Pearl Harbor now covered by an nearly-impenetrable energy shield? Gee, i guess you are evidence that wanking can cause brain damage.

You seem to have a brain bug
Nearly-impenetrable, and impenetrable are not the same thing. It's wanktastically strong. But even in your wanktastic world, they are regularly breached.

What if I followed up the shock wave with a swarm of reletivistic kill vehicles sculpted to look like George Lucas.
When you choose to put all your eggs in one broiler like that, you are on the defensive.

Except that you have no attack capable of breaching a shield that is able to withstand 2.39 zettatons of energy for a tenth of a second. The only attack that you have that might breach it will take you tens of thousands of years to get there at 0.999c. Then when you enter sensor range the military says, "Hey look, a relic of that war we won a few millennium ago. Better zap it." A few seconds latter and your only weapon dies to turbolaser fire.

As for relativistic kill vehicles against a galaxy that has FTL sensors those will be shot down quickly too. That was also worst case and assuming you fired from your own star, they won't even have to worry if you have to bring your gear to them.

So they have to move billions of tons of equipment into enemy territory with sublight-drives?

First off. OA LOVES to move billions of tons around. There is an entire "nation" called the MPA which builds megastructures for fun.
Besides I only need a black hole engine large enough to eat light and electrons. 2 hundred million tons. A miniature black hole is its own ship drive, it practially moves itself.
Drop it in a decaying orbit around your star and it's called a grazer weapon.
As it eats your star, it's also going to transmute the light elements into heavier elements, poisoning the stellar engine. This will cause a type II super nova, and for larger stars, a rotating black hole will form. The magnetic fields will focus that nova. Rotation will cause the event horizon to act like the ultimate laser cavity, turning visible light into gamma rays.

The only reaching part here is the possibility of an artificial black hole; something the LHC is built to find. This is mainstream theory. Planet shields are pure Wank.

It doesn't matter what your shitty tech can do. OA has no offense that won't take thousands of years to arrive.

As for saying planetary shields are wank, once again your dick for a brain misunderstand the term, it's only wank if it makes no sense in the universe it came from. What is wank is people claiming OA is hard.

That's....extremely underwhelming. And your blast still needs decades to hit anything, since it is still at sublight speeds.

So what. It's still coming, and you can't stop it with your best magic. You'll shit yourself andmove as soon as you know it's on the way. I'll be sure to tell you it's coming.
I've just trashed the real estate value in your neighborhood without so much as driving by the place blasting wu-tang.

And don't forget, even though the Wank is strong with you. I can use a killing star as a smoke screen, following behind will be a swarm of relativistic kill vehicles.

I haven't even opened up the chest of Metric weapons at this point.

You just said you're going to bring your weapon to our star. If you're moving from the edge of the galactic disk that trip will take upwards of thirty or forty thousand years at just under light speed. If you fire from further away the shield laughs at your attack and your RKV's do nothing.

Apparently, you do not understand interstellar distances.

Apparently, you don't understand patience. You have contributed nothing to this debate.
At least Norade was able to show, with math, that the magic shield has a chance against a real stellar threat.
You are just a Parrot.

Shut the fuck up Serafina has shown countless times that she's smarter than you. So go fuck a Large Hadron Collider you worthless palm fucker.

[Darth Ruinus]

Even if it takes years, giving you plenty of time to evacuate, you still have a nuked star system.
If anything, this will destroy your economy as fast as your FTL comms will take the speculation.
The amount of refugees on your lawn is going to hurt you more than simply the loss of the star system.

Hopefully this isn't dogpiling but, the destruction of a star system, or even several of them isn't going to really hurt the Galactic Empire.

From pg. 301 of Tales of the Bounty Hunters hardcover:
"In a sector of the galaxy Boba Fett had never heard of, a star went nova; it murdered a world and an entire sentient species. It aroused less comment than had the destruction of Alderaan, only a decade prior; the galaxy at large barely noticed the tragedy, and Fett never heard about it. In a galaxy with over four hundred billion stars, over twenty million intelligent species, such things are bound to happen."

Essential Atlas, p. 8
The known galaxy includes nearly a billion inhabited star systems, from uncharted settlements set up by smugglers to megalopolis worlds where scarcely a meter of untouched ground remains. Nearly seventy million of those star systems were sufficiently populated for representation of some sort in the Galactic Empire, a vast bureaucracy responsible for the affairs of more than one hundred quadrillion beings - and the apogee of centralized power.

Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2nd Edition
Before you can adventure in the galaxy, you better know something about it. First off, it's Big - the Empire rules billions of worlds.

Shadows of the Empire Sourcebook
The civilization of the Galactic Empire spans billions of stars, from Coruscant - the heart of the Empire - to remote Outer Rim worlds like Tatooine and Gall.

[Imperial Overlord]

This is a civilization:

a) has FTL transportation and sensors
b) accelerations in hundred and thousands of gs for its spacecraft
c) can secretly build mobile battlestations with reactors orders of magnitude more powerful than Sol in less than a year.
d) advanced gravity control and tractor beam technology.

Even if you successfully shoot black holes at them, it won't be a problem they can't clean up long before the projectiles arrive. Fuck, they already have Centerpoint Station.