You vs. the Alpha Quadrant

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 10:56am

Because you're still taking a small fleet and placing into combat against a much larger one? In the course of such a battle, the Imps are not simply going to walk away unscathed. In fact, depending on the numerical difference, they might suffer many losses before the end of the battle. It depends on the size of the Fed fleet in question. If it's 50 Fed ships against 50 Imp ships, then yeah, I can see an easily Imp victory. if it's 500 Fed ships, then that changes things. And even if the magnitude of firepower is so different, there's still those nice big engines and those nice big reactor cores of the ISDs to try some desperate ramming tactics on.

Look, I can accept an Imperial victory easy, but not when there are huge disparagies in the fleet sizes. That Imp fleet is NOT invincible and has to conquer as much of the Alpha Quadrant as it can, remember? Well, if they're going to throw themselves at homeworld after homeworld, losing ships in the course of each battle, sooner or later, they'll run out of ships to hold anything. Not to mention they still have to defend their supply base from attack, which would tie up ships to begin with.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 10:57am

Cpt_Frank wrote:The feds could field their entire fleet of, say, about 2000 capships (being extremely generous), and they would still lose.
Some here don't know the power of the SSD.

I've always figured a fleet of around 2'500 ships. all of them against 1 SSD, and the SSD WILL lose. It's a powerful ship that can take out a lot of enemies, but not invulnerable, especially against such large numbers. Lets be realistic.

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-06 11:00am

And what makes you think ramming tactics will work? For one it presumes that fed ships will get close enough to ram before being anhilated. For another they'd be completely useless on an Executor class- in one of the comics it survived three ISDs samshing into it at superluminal speeds. How this scales down to an individual ISD I don't know, but ramming tactics ae looking pretty useless.

And what makes you think that Ferds would have time to mount counterattacks on supply bases before being completely destroyed?

CORE COMMANDER · Post by **CORE COMMANDER** » 2002-07-06 11:03am

I doubt a fleet of a THOUSAND starfleet ships could take the Executor. 1000 different guns. one for each ship. thats exactly like TREK combat.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:04am

JJP wrote:And what makes you think ramming tactics will work? For one it presumes that fed ships will get close enough to ram before being anhilated. For another they'd be completely useless on an Executor class- in one of the comics it survived three ISDs samshing into it at superluminal speeds. How this scales down to an individual ISD I don't know, but ramming tactics ae looking pretty useless.

And what makes you think that Ferds would have time to mount counterattacks on supply bases before being completely destroyed?

The said Executor still lost it's shields though, did it not? And it might well have a great many more than 3 ships ramming it if desperate enough.

For part 2: Because the Imp fleet cannot be in two locations at once, to fight both the Fed fleet (and other Alpha Quadrant fleets) and to defend it's supply base.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:04am

CORE COMMANDER wrote:I doubt a fleet of a THOUSAND starfleet ships could take the Executor. 1000 different guns. one for each ship. thats exactly like TREK combat.

Yawn- What do you, like Trek combat?

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:05am

honestly. the feds couldn't beat a puny Borg Cube. a SINGLE Borg Cube. what about 13 ships with more firepower, and more shields? THe FEDs WOULD GET THEIR ASSES KICKED.

COre Commander · Post by **COre Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:06am

No. i don't like trek combat. i'm just saying that they fight like that

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-06 11:08am

I have the comic in my hand. "No damage Lord, thanks to our shield". No mention of the shield going down. Clear?

Second point- again, what makes you think the campaign will go on long enough for the Feds to find and attack supply bases? The Federation would be conquered in a matter of days given the massive speed, firepower and fleet size advantages.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:10am

Core Commander wrote:honestly. the feds couldn't beat a puny Borg Cube. a SINGLE Borg Cube. what about 13 ships with more firepower, and more shields? THe FEDs WOULD GET THEIR ASSES KICKED.

Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years. Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:11am

COre Commander wrote:No. i don't like trek combat. i'm just saying that they fight like that

Examples?

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:12am

JJP wrote:I have the comic in my hand. "No damage Lord, thanks to our shield". No mention of the shield going down. Clear?

Second point- again, what makes you think the campaign will go on long enough for the Feds to find and attack supply bases? The Federation would be conquered in a matter of days given the massive speed, firepower and fleet size advantages.

Very well, I was wrong on point 1.

For Point 2, again, see the starting conditions of the thread. 141 Imp ships, 2 million troops, against thousands of ships and billions of people.

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:12am

did i say that they would find and attack supply bases? No. I said they'd try to kill ME. that is how thay operate. they aren't smart enough to attack supply bases anyway.

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-06 11:13am

Well, here come the usual trekky unsupported assumptions!

What makes you think that every single Alpha quadrant power will come running to the aid of the Feds, against an enemy like the Empire? Do they have a death wish?

And the number of troops really doesn't matter- the Imps will rule through fear of planets being completely anhilated if they rebel.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:14am

Core Commander wrote:did i say that they would find and attack supply bases? No. I said they'd try to kill ME. that is how thay operate. they aren't smart enough to attack supply bases anyway.

Ok, you lost me there...

But the Feds DO operate with the aim of attacking an enemies holdings. Take the attack on the Tories 3 shipyards at the end of DS9 season 5, or at the start of season 6 when they take out a Dominion facility.

Core Comander · Post by **Core Comander** » 2002-07-06 11:15am

for future reference, any fed starship attempting to fly into the rear of a star destroyer would face EXTREMELY heavy damage from the engine wake. it would be like flying into an ion storm.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:15am

JJP wrote:Well, here come the usual trekky unsupported assumptions!

What makes you think that every single Alpha quadrant power will come running to the aid of the Feds, against an enemy like the Empire? Do they have a death wish?

And the number of troops really doesn't matter- the Imps will rule through fear of planets being completely anhilated if they rebel.

If the Imp fleet is trying to conquer the Alpha Quadrant, it stands to reason they will have to FIGHT the Alpha Quadrant. And even if that wasn't the case, it's still 141 ships against 2000 ships. and we haven't established with Trek firepower calcs to go with.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:16am

Core Comander wrote:for future reference, any fed starship attempting to fly into the rear of a star destroyer would face EXTREMELY heavy damage from the engine wake. it would be like flying into an ion storm.

Proof?

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:17am

sorry. i thought you were talking about my forst post

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-06 11:18am

Fine. See the "Federation Technology pages" on this very website.

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:18am

X-Wing Alliance. Ships flying into the rear of a large starship take damage while they are in it's wake.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:19am

JJP wrote:Fine. See the "Federation Technology pages" on this very website.

Lemme guess, weapons and shields sections?

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:19am

Core Commander wrote:X-Wing Alliance. Ships flying into the rear of a large starship take damage while they are in it's wake.

As far as I was aware, games aren't canon though?

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-06 11:20am

No, the frigging "Art and Culture" sections.

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:22am

sorry, i forgot that. alright then. engine ramming attacks might do some damage, but then again, did anybody say anything about the TIE fighters?