Jedi Invisibility Powers

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 12:21am

I shit you not. This is taken from a post I made in the OSF forum (Agent Smith vs Mace Windu thread):

I digitized the TPM Force-speed sequence, did an inverse-telecine with VirtualDub to convert back to the original theatrical frame rate, and dumped to image sequence.

Time: 0 seconds. This is before they start.

Time: 0.04 seconds. They initiate Force-speed. Notice how they've become transclucent. You can actually see the door right through Qui-Gon.

Time: 0.08 seconds. It's hard to see because they're translucent in Force-speed, but judging by Obi-Wan's saber, he's covered roughly 1 metre. To accelerate from standing start to cover 1 metre in 0.04 seconds requires acceleration of 1250 m/s^2, or more than one hundred fucking G's at a minimum. Even if the location of his sabre is misleading and he only covered 1/2 metre in that time, he would still need to accelerate at more than 60 G's.

Time: 0.12 seconds. Obi-Wan has covered another metre, which indicates that he's topped out at around 20-30 m/s (45-68 mph). That's fucking automobile highway speed, pal. And we're not just talking about moving his arm or bending his hips; we're talking about accelerating his entire body.

Time: 0.21 seconds. Notice how Qui-Gon is quite obviously transclucent in this scene; he is only visible as a shadow. Obi-Wan is almost completely invisible; if it weren't for his sabre, you wouldn't even know he's there. Now we know the ANH novelization wasn't exaggerating when it said he could become wraith-like.

I think that after AOTC, people have forgotten how formidable the Jedi were in TPM, at the height of their power before the shroud of the Dark Side fell upon them.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-08 01:14am

That's pretty cool, Mike. I suggest you mention this finding on your website proper.

FettKyle · Post by **FettKyle** » 2003-01-08 01:20am

wow talk about dodging the bullet. I wonder if I can see this on my dvd probaly can't. Hey Mike have you checked out the scene in AOTC when jango fired the Kamino saber dart at Zam. If you notice about a second after it hits you hear the shot.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-08 02:25am

Couldyou do the same sort of thing to find out how much force was used to shove those battle droids aside in the hangar bay? I was wondering how hard those droids were hit to go scattering like that.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-01-08 02:26am

Thats some shit. In the two middle frames you can just barely make them out, then they become a little more visible. However when the light from the shots flare up, they turn almost totally translucent again. Let's see a Feddy phaser hit that shit now. Wide beam my ass.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-01-08 04:27am

Most people would call it FX error, but I recall invisibility has been mentioned in the EU. Pretty good sprint, though..

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2003-01-08 11:00am

nightmare wrote:Most people would call it FX error, but I recall invisibility has been mentioned in the EU. Pretty good sprint, though..

Actually I think it may be deliberate, if you look at the next scene of them running down the corridor at normal speed you can actually see them flicker (well at least on my VHS copy).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 11:02am

There's no way it's a mistake. It would be harder to do that then to just show them normally.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-08 11:06am

I wonder how the Trekkies will react.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-01-08 12:09pm

My theory; In order for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to move that fast they needed to 'take on' huge quantities of Force energy. Imagine that a Jedi walks in 2 worlds, our reality and the Force. When a Jedi 'silences his mind' he can hear the will of the Force. 'So it controls my actions?' 'Partially, but it also obeys your command.' In the above scene we are given a direct example of command over the Force other than telekenisis. Here a Jedi uses the Force, not to move physical objects not conected to them, but to 'impower' themselves. So here is the crincher; 'Strike me down Vader, and I will become more powerfull than you could possibly imagine.' What if, the translucancy is due to the fact that a Jedi is drawing so deeply on the Force, at such tremondous levels to apply it on himself, that he is nearly becomming one with it? However because he has yet to relinquish his hold on his physical form, he can come back from the brink.

It would explain the 'traslucense', wouldn't you say? Also I should point out that this theory is pleasing to all of you, because I have my own reason's for suggesting it. Shhhh But does it make sense?

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-01-08 12:16pm

Just for the record I'll clarify myself: I'm not claiming it's an FX error, particularly in the light of supporting evidence (I think it was Luke that achieved the ability to cloak objects in some novel). I'm just saying that objection will be brought up.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 12:20pm

I like it! It explains why Obi-Wan and Yoda could literally disappear into the Force; a powerful Force user can focus his power and submerge himself partially into it, hence the shimmering (which would also explain why they weren't killed when they turned to the side and a bolt flew through; they were briefly immaterial. But if you go too far, you can't come back.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 12:26pm

nightmare wrote:Most people would call it FX error, but I recall invisibility has been mentioned in the EU. Pretty good sprint, though..

IIRC it was in the novel, or it was a cut scene from the movie. The Destroyer droids round the corner, and can't see the jedi at first, then scan for them, and the jedi bolt again and duck down the air vent.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-08 12:27pm

I agree with the whole super fast force speed thing, but in this case it is my belief that it is just a SFX goof OR is intended to show them moving very fast. I don't believe it shows them turning invisible. In this instance. I readily admit Jedi can cloak themselves and objects as shown in the novels, etc... I just think that this isn't a case of this cloaking ability in action and wasn't intended to be by George Lucas...

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-08 12:28pm

DocHorror wrote:I agree with the whole super fast force speed thing, but in this case it is my belief that it is just a SFX goof OR is intended to show them moving very fast. I don't believe it shows them turning invisible. In this instance. I readily admit Jedi can cloak themselves and objects as shown in the novels, etc... I just think that this isn't a case of this cloaking ability in action and wasn't intended to be by George Lucas...

Really? You know what GL was thinking when he wrote and shot this scene? Are you a psychic?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-01-08 12:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:I like it! It explains why Obi-Wan and Yoda could literally disappear into the Force; a powerful Force user can focus his power and submerge himself partially into it, hence the shimmering (which would also explain why they weren't killed when they turned to the side and a bolt flew through; they were briefly immaterial. But if you go too far, you can't come back.

Also just another thought; what if there is really no limit to how much they could draw as long as they intend to use it in some manner? Remember both Obi-Wan and Yoda were perfectly still when they became one with the Force. So what if they had decided to MOVE?

On the other hand this just opens up another kettle of fish so... *shrug*

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-08 12:31pm

Very impressive. I had been working on measuring their speed by the length of the hallway we see them on the other side of seconds later(I was pulling results in the 60-100G range as well), though for the purpose of trying to see more examples of incredible G tolerances.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-01-08 12:32pm

Out of interest in this new development, I was curious if we had a comprehensive list of things that Jedi/Force users can do? A sort of Complete Force Powers Archive, as it were, taking into account everything we've seen them do, and assigning some numbers to energy expended, top speeds, etc.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-01-08 12:38pm

Well if anyone would like to make a comprehensive list of Jedi powers and place them on their web site (not looking at anyone in particular hear *cough*) then I would be happy to provide a more in-depth analysis on the scene above. I assume that I will be getting some form of recognition.

*whistles honestly*

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 12:39pm

DocHorror wrote:I agree with the whole super fast force speed thing, but in this case it is my belief that it is just a SFX goof OR is intended to show them moving very fast. I don't believe it shows them turning invisible. In this instance. I readily admit Jedi can cloak themselves and objects as shown in the novels, etc... I just think that this isn't a case of this cloaking ability in action and wasn't intended to be by George Lucas...

George said we would understand how and why Obi-Wan and Yoda disappeared into the Force by the time the prequels were done. What makes you think he isn't laying the groundwork for that in TPM?

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-08 12:40pm

Really? You know what GL was thinking when he wrote and shot this scene? Are you a psychic?

That wasn't what I meant. My opinion is that if GL wanted to show Jedi invisibility he would have clearly done so. He wouldn't have attempted to do so in a spilt second, just before a cut to another POV...

I didn't deny the Jedi had the ability to do it, I just don't believe that it happened here...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-08 12:41pm

http://members.tripod.com/~theguild/sta ... owers.html

That's the best I can find on the fly. I've not done any calc's on Force Powers, my WEG work is exclusively in making a conversion from WEG stats to RL units.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-08 12:42pm

This certainly adds useful insight... certainly a cool idea, Crown.

I mean this would also explain why a variety of Jedi didn't disappear, since it requires more than just a small amount of concentration...sudden death I would say sorta breaks the concetration needed to become one with the Force.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-08 12:43pm

George said we would understand how and why Obi-Wan and Yoda disappeared into the Force by the time the prequels were done. What makes you think he isn't laying the groundwork for that in TPM?

I would assume that he would do so in a manner that would be understood by everyone from the age of 5+ upwards after going to the cinema once...I doubt it would be done in a manner that relies on a DVD player and constant rewatching in slow motion.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-08 12:44pm

Well it's the beginning of the groundwork...and all this is just a possiblity, and does give some credit to why the Jedi's in Genosis and Qui-Gon didn't disappear.