Texas School District Bans Cleavage

[Jack Bauer]

Link

(CBS) ARLINGTON, Texas With a new school year about to begin, some female students in one Texas school district may have to rethink their wardrobes.

Teen fashions often leave parents a little disgruntled. Arlington Independent School District parent Frances Henson said, “I'm thinking that our daughters are growing up a little bit too fast these days.”

Arlington School Board members agree with parents and this summer, they adopted an unusual amendment to the student dress code.

The new dress code reads, in part, “The display of cleavage is unacceptable. Low cut blouses, tops, sweaters, etc. with plunging necklines are not allowed."

“It's gotten bad enough that, unfortunately, our young males are looking at more than their English book, their speech book, their science book,” says school board president Sherri Wade. “And it's kind of nice to have something left to the imagination.”

Even some teenagers agree there is a problem. “I think it's good that they're doing it,” said student, Tyler Edwards.

Others students say it makes back-to-school shopping more difficult. “I just have to be more careful with what shirts I buy. Change my style a little,” said student, Maria Lopez.

While most parents support the new rule, some worry that enforcing it could be a challenge. “I think that's going to be a little tricky, because it puts a little bit of a policeman approach to the educators, and they really need to focus more on teaching,” said Tom Pederson, AISD parent.

The school board president says they'll do both… and in time, she says, the no cleavage rule will be no problem.

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What's next? Hijab? Burkas?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Almost no modern clothing worn by teenagers will accomodate this policy. In my humbe opinion, if you're going to get draconian and very strict about dress code, implement a uniform policy. Don't keep kids guessing. And also, some girls have large breasts. My girlfriend wears a 34DD and its very difficult for her to wear almost any clothes without having some cleavage.

[RedImperator]

Texas does a lot of dumb things, but 14 year old girls don't need to be showing off their assets in school. They really ought to be in uniforms--boys and girls. I've seen a well designed uniform policy in action and I've become a firm believer in them.

[Pick]

We had this policy at my (private) school without uniforms, and it never presented a problem. I went back to public school (I think to pick up something I had left their the previous year... I forget. Just for an hour or so.) and the clothing they were wearing was pretty damn outrageous. I went back thankful for my school's stricter dress code.

[Elheru Aran]

I would have no problem with a uniform code, but if you're not going to have one, expect the rules to be stretched. Be rather asinine to expect this to actually work out... but then, it *is* Texas...

[Braedley]

I personally don't think that uniforms are the answer, but rather a clearly defined and enforced dress code. Taking my former high school as a poor example, the dress code went something like "School uniforms are not necessary, but clothing worn by students (and staff) are not to be offensive (have profanity, are sexist/racist or are otherwise discrimitive, etc), and should not be likely to cause a distraction to either students or teachers (low necklines, excessive midrif, etc). Violators will be asked to change into more suitable clothing at the earliest available moment. If a student wishes to wear a hat of any kind, they may do so only in the halls or outside."
That's not verbatim, but it's essentially what was in the handbook while I was there, and I don't think the policy has changed much, if any. The main thing was that clothing shouldn't be offensive or cause a distraction in the class, and I've heard of students being quoted the handbook on the issue (although never first-hand). I think this policy in Texas is trying to achieve something similar, and if I had to live with it, I wouldn't mind it.

[Solauren]

Uniforms are much easier to enforce then a dresscode, and leave little room for "creative interpretation"

[Elheru Aran]

One issue with this is that given current teenage fashions, it will be *extremely* difficult for them to find clothes that do not have cleavage and still look good. That's an incentive right there to push the rules. Some leeway is necessary here; perhaps a 'minimal amount' of cleavage permitted, power given to individual teachers to enforce cover-up if they decide it's too distracting? Some such thing. If they're not going to implement an uniform policy, they'd better expect the rules to get pushed unless they're willing to enforce this rigidly... but then, this *is* Texas...

[Big Phil]

One issue with this is that given current teenage fashions, it will be *extremely* difficult for them to find clothes that do not have cleavage and still look good. That's an incentive right there to push the rules. Some leeway is necessary here; perhaps a 'minimal amount' of cleavage permitted, power given to individual teachers to enforce cover-up if they decide it's too distracting? Some such thing. If they're not going to implement an uniform policy, they'd better expect the rules to get pushed unless they're willing to enforce this rigidly... but then, this *is* Texas...

T-Shirts?

For christs sake, it's not that hard to find something that doesn't leave your boobs flowing freely in the wind...

[Spin Echo]

One issue with this is that given current teenage fashions, it will be *extremely* difficult for them to find clothes that do not have cleavage and still look good.

I'm going to have to argue against you on that one. Unless there is something special about Texas, it's certainly possible to find nice clothing that doesn't need double sided tape to keep decent. In the event you can't find it in the teen's department, you can always go to the women's department.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but the plunging necklines and headband skirts don't look good, just trashy. The hookers downtown wear more clothing than some of the girls that went to my high school.

[Vehrec]

My problem with uniforms is they impose conformity. I despise conformity. Uniforms might raise test score and lower problems, but I think thats more a function of the kinds of places that have uniforms. Didn't anyone here listen to 'The Wall'? We don't need no thought control! And that includes what we are wearing. Freedom of speach equaled freedom of expression last time I checked, and that included how you dressed.
I'm free to wear and say and do what I want, so long as I don't infringe on other people's right to do the same. I fail to see how a school is different from a person in this respect.
I could care less about cleavage anyways. Boobs are still there.

[Elheru Aran]

I'm going to have to argue against you on that one. Unless there is something special about Texas, it's certainly possible to find nice clothing that doesn't need double sided tape to keep decent. In the event you can't find it in the teen's department, you can always go to the women's department.

True enough. That stuff's not really 'fashionable' though, although it'll certainly be 'nice'. These are teenage girls we're talking about... intelligence's taken over by social pressure.

My problem with uniforms is they impose conformity. I despise conformity. Uniforms might raise test score and lower problems, but I think thats more a function of the kinds of places that have uniforms. Didn't anyone here listen to 'The Wall'? We don't need no thought control! And that includes what we are wearing. Freedom of speach equaled freedom of expression last time I checked, and that included how you dressed.
I'm free to wear and say and do what I want, so long as I don't infringe on other people's right to do the same. I fail to see how a school is different from a person in this respect.
I could care less about cleavage anyways. Boobs are still there.

This is public school. Public school's not about doing your own thing, it's about getting a fucking education. The school board is well within its own rights to impose whatever uniform policy it desires. Unless parents can afford sending their children to private school, it's put up or shut up. Uniforms do NOT equal 'thought control', incidentally...

[Big Phil]

My problem with uniforms is they impose conformity. I despise conformity. Uniforms might raise test score and lower problems, but I think thats more a function of the kinds of places that have uniforms. Didn't anyone here listen to 'The Wall'? We don't need no thought control! And that includes what we are wearing. Freedom of speach equaled freedom of expression last time I checked, and that included how you dressed.
I'm free to wear and say and do what I want, so long as I don't infringe on other people's right to do the same. I fail to see how a school is different from a person in this respect.
I could care less about cleavage anyways. Boobs are still there.

Yes! Let's all be different in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY!!! This isn't a freedom of speech issue - don't even pretend that it is. Besides which, I'd rather defend real freedom of speech than the freedom for spoiled teenage girls to dress like whores.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

To the above, I don't know. Freedom really isn't all that important when you are going to school. Personally, I think you are going there to learn, not to express yourself in the latest fashion.

[Braedley]

Maybe I'm just getting old, but the plunging necklines and headband skirts don't look good, just trashy. The hookers downtown wear more clothing than some of the girls that went to my high school.

I feel the exact same way. I have 2 younger cousins, both junior high/middle school aged, who I'm seeing going through the changing fashion world, and I'm thinking to myself "girls my age didn't start wearing stuff like that til they were 16," with a couple of exceptions, of course.

I'm also going with SancheztheWhaler on his t-shirt point. I see no reason why girls can't wear t-shirts, or even more fitted t-shirts most days of the week.

[Broomstick]

One issue with this is that given current teenage fashions, it will be *extremely* difficult for them to find clothes that do not have cleavage and still look good.

Bullshit.

There're in school to get an education, not to "look good"

That's an incentive right there to push the rules.

So? Teenagers will push the rules. That because they're human beings and, even more so, they're teenagers. Tough shit - that's no reason to abolish the rules. Part of growing up is learning when and how to push boundaries - and when not to.

Some leeway is necessary here; perhaps a 'minimal amount' of cleavage permitted,

Fuck no. There's no goddamned reason a girl has to flaunt her tits in a classroom. Not one. There ARE clothes out there that will cover even the most ample bosom. It's not like the boys aren't going to notice the girls have tits anyway, but there's no reason to have them flopping in the breeze.

So they aren't the latest fashions? Too fucking bad - it will be a level playing field. It's not like the kids will lose interest in each other, they'll still get caught kissing under the stairs and fucking under the bleachers. But learning how to deal with a dress code is something they can learn in high school - or learn later by getting fired from multiple jobs.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Yes! Let's all be different in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY!!! This isn't a freedom of speech issue - don't even pretend that it is. Besides which, I'd rather defend real freedom of speech than the freedom for spoiled teenage girls to dress like whores.

Oh come off your high horse, palm-fucker. We're talking about real world disciplinary problems and issues, where the opinions of say - Red, a teacher - have value. Maybe if girls showed you anything resembling the time of day you'd not be so eager to judge a woman from dressing however she pleases. I know you don't have much to say - and in so harshly a way - for men. Sexist asshole.

T-shirts do not solve the problem, because then you have to craft a billion constantly updated and changed regulations on their content and whatnot. Uniforms give the dignity of looking official and decent without the tawdry factor in T-shirts, especially for girls. They're far and above the best solution. Not to mention how tight can T-shirts be, are you going to enforce measurement standards with the shirt sizes? A girl with DDs is going to look a lot more distracting in a tight t-shirt than a girl with Bs wearing an unbuttoned polo shirt.

[Big Phil]

Yes! Let's all be different in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY!!! This isn't a freedom of speech issue - don't even pretend that it is. Besides which, I'd rather defend real freedom of speech than the freedom for spoiled teenage girls to dress like whores.

Oh come off your high horse, palm-fucker. We're talking about real world disciplinary problems and issues, where the opinions of say - Red, a teacher - have value. Maybe if girls showed you anything resembling the time of day you'd not be so eager to judge a woman from dressing however she pleases. I know you don't have much to say - and in so harshly a way - for men. Sexist asshole.

T-shirts do not solve the problem, because then you have to craft a billion constantly updated and changed regulations on their content and whatnot. Uniforms give the dignity of looking official and decent without the tawdry factor in T-shirts, especially for girls. They're far and above the best solution. Not to mention how tight can T-shirts be, are you going to enforce measurement standards with the shirt sizes? A girl with DDs is going to look a lot more distracting in a tight t-shirt than a girl with Bs wearing an unbuttoned polo shirt.

-First, you're a dumbass.
-Second, I'm married, get plenty of sex, and you're a dumbass.
-Third, what's the point of your post, besides childish name calling?
-Fourth, just to reiterate, you're a dumbass.

[Plekhanov]

Regardless of whether or not uniforms and dress codes are a good idea these parents are deluding themselves if they think a lack of cleavage will stop teenage boys ogling teenage girls.

[Darth Wong]

My problem with uniforms is they impose conformity. I despise conformity.

Fashion conformity and intellectual conformity are not the same thing.

Uniforms might raise test score and lower problems, but I think thats more a function of the kinds of places that have uniforms. Didn't anyone here listen to 'The Wall'?

Believe it or not, the lyrics to Pink Floyd songs do not necessarily constitute an overwhelming sociological argument.

We don't need no thought control! And that includes what we are wearing. Freedom of speach equaled freedom of expression last time I checked, and that included how you dressed.

Freedom of speech means the government can't persecute you for speaking your mind, fool. It does not mean there must be no consequences whatsoever. That's why you can get fired for mouthing off to your boss, and that's why a school can suspend you if you won't toe the line.

I'm free to wear and say and do what I want, so long as I don't infringe on other people's right to do the same. I fail to see how a school is different from a person in this respect.

Do you really need a list of differences between a school and a private individual? You honestly can't think of any differences on your own?

[Patrick Degan]

Believe it or not, the lyrics to Pink Floyd songs do not necessarily constitute an overwhelming sociological argument.

F.U.Q. nomination.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

To be honest, I don't know why this is news. My school district has had this sort of rule for years, albiet it isn't strictly enforced.

[aerius]

My problem with uniforms is they impose conformity. I despise conformity.

Hope you enjoy life after school where you'll likely have to wear a shirt, tie, and maybe even suit like everyone else at the office. Of course there's always the choice of working at McDonald's where you get to wear a McUniform like every other McWorker.

Uniforms might raise test score and lower problems, but I think thats more a function of the kinds of places that have uniforms.

And this is a bad thing how?

Didn't anyone here listen to 'The Wall'? We don't need no thought control! And that includes what we are wearing.

Considering that the line before that is "We don't need no education", yeah, that's a good one. "The Wall" is great for an afternoon or evening of stoned out chilling, but let's just say it ain't a valid research paper on modern society.

Freedom of speach equaled freedom of expression last time I checked, and that included how you dressed.
I'm free to wear and say and do what I want, so long as I don't infringe on other people's right to do the same.

Nope. Freedom of speech means you can run your mouth without going to jail unless you say something really dumb like threatening to kill someone. Freedom of speech does not entail freedom from consequences. Mouth off to your teacher too much and he can kick you out of class or get you expelled. Run your mouth at your boss and you'll never have to worry about coming in to work again. Say something dumb to the chick at the bar and you'll get a nice slap in the face.

[dragon]

There is nothing wrong with wearing respectable cloth in school. My wife is a professor at the University of Wuerzburg and the teacher have a stricter dress code than the students. My wife is a very large women yet she has no trouble find shirts that is considered appropiate for teaching. Even though it weird that their is no dress code at all for her students just for the tearchers.


As everyone else points out you go to school to get an education first an foremost. Flaunting, socializing and being fashionable is a far distant second.

[RedImperator]

My problem with uniforms is they impose conformity. I despise conformity.

Right, because what matters is what you look like on the outside, not what you're thinking on the inside.

Uniforms might raise test score and lower problems, but I think thats more a function of the kinds of places that have uniforms.

What are you trying to argue here?

Didn't anyone here listen to 'The Wall'? We don't need no thought control!

Mike beat me to the joke.

And that includes what we are wearing. Freedom of speach equaled freedom of expression last time I checked, and that included how you dressed.

You think you have freedom of speech in school? Then I dare you to go tell your principal to go fuck himself.

I'm free to wear and say and do what I want, so long as I don't infringe on other people's right to do the same. I fail to see how a school is different from a person in this respect.

Because a school has a specific, vital, and difficult mission in society that trumps your right to unrestricted free expression during school hours. Anything you do or say that interferes with that mission, with the exception of truly important speech like political speech, it's within their right to stamp it out. You're in that building to learn, not make a fashion statement. Deal with it.