Inaugural Trollish Post

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-07-04 01:02am

My head nearly exploded after reading the first post. I realize of course that it was all in fun, but I feel a certain sadness at the passing (or evolution?) of the English language.

XPViking

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2002-07-04 01:03am

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Well, most likely phasers will be very deadly to TIEs.

Even with the one-second lock time from Arsenal of Freedom? Feds have trouble locking on to rapid manuveuring targets, and the beam has a low propagation speed.

I'm sure phasers can destroy TIEs, but unless they can do it with one hit the shuttles will get hammered. Because of the materials depended nature of phaser effects, and the likelyhood of armour on TIEs, I think it's a little premature to say they'll be 'very deadly'.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-04 01:07am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Stark wrote: Sure. TIEs can survive reentry unshielded, and getting hit by asteroids makes them break cleanly (like a plastic model )

I certainly didn't mean to suggest it has neutronium in it - simply that they're not as flimsy as most would suggest.

Well, most likely phasers will be very deadly to TIEs.

Ecept if you read the Hate Mail in question rather than the erroneous posting of the person that brought it up A) Mike didn't treat it as a red herring he actaully answered the point and laughed at the idiot that made it, Rogers never answered him back on it. B) The point had nothing to do with Phasers as Rogers actually was talking about *ramming* the TIE's head-on.

Infact Mike Answered all the points that were sited as supposedly evidence that he never did... goh what a surprise.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-04 01:09am

Anonymous wrote:Good example of his red herring attacks can be found on the Hate Mail page where he's debating with that Rodgers guy (not Ted, the other one).

I think the guy says something about Fed shuttles doing headons into TIEs . Sounds dumb at first but think about it -- Fed shuttles have regular deflectors, and head on they have their nav deflectors added to it. Bad juju for TIES. Wong totally ignored that and acted like the additional deflector power wasn't even involved.

The Rodgers guy also mentions something about snipers in Fed escape pods launched toward ISDs. Now we know that a slow moving object can pass through Imperial shields, so why not escape pods? Sure, the Imps MIGHT destroy the pods, but why would they do that? Why waste firepower on something that isn't remotely a threat?

Wong, though, totally distorts the argument, first by saying that the snipers would be shooting at Imperial escape pods, then that the snipers are shooting FROM Imperial escape pods, and then that it's just dumb anyway. He TOTALLY IGNORES what his opponent is actually suggesting.

There's your proof.

What a surprise that someone who posts without giving their real name or even a Board name, posts a lie. Mike answered every point that you cite and has fun holding up the Idiot in question for full ridicule.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-04 01:14am

Anonymous wrote: The Rodgers guy also mentions something about snipers in Fed escape pods launched toward ISDs. Now we know that a slow moving object can pass through Imperial shields, so why not escape pods? Sure, the Imps MIGHT destroy the pods, but why would they do that? Why waste firepower on something that isn't remotely a threat?

"Hold your fire, there's no life signs"
Unless those sniper rifles are shot by robots or something, those escape pods will most certainly be destroyed. Maybe even if its robots, I dunno.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-04 01:15am

Stark wrote:
Even with the one-second lock time from Arsenal of Freedom? Feds have trouble locking on to rapid manuveuring targets, and the beam has a low propagation speed.

I'm sure phasers can destroy TIEs, but unless they can do it with one hit the shuttles will get hammered. Because of the materials depended nature of phaser effects, and the likelyhood of armour on TIEs, I think it's a little premature to say they'll be 'very deadly'.

The one second lock on in Arsenal of Freedom was because the ship was cloaked. In every other combat episode the E-D had no problems locking on to it's target. Though I guess you could bring up ST: Generations, in which it would take 11-15 second for the E-D to lock on to the missile but that missile was warp capable.

I'm positive that they can do it with one hit. During TNG, DS9, and VGR. No armor has been shown to withstand phasers enough that a target the size of a TIE wouldn't be vaporized.

Sure neutronium renders phasers completely ineffective, but everything else has had sections vaporized that were large enough to hold several TIEs.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-04 01:16am

Rob Wilson wrote:
Ecept if you read the Hate Mail in question rather than the erroneous posting of the person that brought it up A) Mike didn't treat it as a red herring he actaully answered the point and laughed at the idiot that made it, Rogers never answered him back on it. B) The point had nothing to do with Phasers as Rogers actually was talking about *ramming* the TIE's head-on.

Infact Mike Answered all the points that were sited as supposedly evidence that he never did... goh what a surprise.

I'm not very concerned with the Hate Mail. That whole concept of the shuttles surviving long enough to ram faster moving targets is retarded.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-04 01:17am

I think its time for this again.
http://h4h.com/louis/trekmiss.rm
Even if the Enterprise could get locks on TIEs, we don't know that it could hit them.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-04 01:52am

Howedar wrote:I think its time for this again.
http://h4h.com/louis/trekmiss.rm
Even if the Enterprise could get locks on TIEs, we don't know that it could hit them.

That's my favorite clip because, if you didn't notice most of the ships were...

1 - Non UFP

2 - Most of the UFP ships that missed were ships with fixed weapons.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-04 01:59am

Oh yeah, cause the non-UFP ships have wayy worse accuracy than the Federation. That's why the Federation kicks ass against the Dominion, Klingons, Romulans, Borg, etc...

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-04 02:58am

Doomriser wrote:Oh yeah, cause the non-UFP ships have wayy worse accuracy than the Federation. That's why the Federation kicks ass against the Dominion, Klingons, Romulans, Borg, etc...

Exactly! That's how it seems does it not? At least as far as accuracy is concerned?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-07-04 06:52am

Try Dragon's teeth, Tuvok had problems getting a targetting lock on the ships, later on he went to manual mode and IIRC he performed better that way.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-04 10:40am

The hull of a TIE seems to feature some kind of light armor, just a glancing hit from a shuttle's phasers won't suffice.
When up against shuttles, TIEs sure as hell will acheive victory.
Even when up against capships: the TIEs maneuver much faster and wilder than anything I've ever seen on Trek, the Feds would most likely have trouble hitting them, even IF they could get a clear lock.
The best thing the Feds could do is shooting salvoes of proximity fused torps around and hoping to score a lucky hit.
The TIEs possibly won't do much damage against a UFP Capshit, but I doubt the Feddies could wipe out the TIEs with ease.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-04 01:17pm

The people in ST always have more accuracy when doing it manually. Which begs the question, "Why use computers?"

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-04 02:36pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:Try Dragon's teeth, Tuvok had problems getting a targetting lock on the ships, later on he went to manual mode and IIRC he performed better that way.

I believe Voyagers targetting computer was damaged, but ask Wayne he has more information on that episode and I believe he mentions something that can help you.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 02:41pm

========================================
"Targeting sensors off-line. Switching to manual," Tuvok says.
========================================

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-07-04 02:43pm

Shadow wrote:========================================
"Targeting sensors off-line. Switching to manual," Tuvok says.
========================================

Yes and I believe accuracy went up after that.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-04 02:49pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Shadow wrote:========================================
"Targeting sensors off-line. Switching to manual," Tuvok says.
========================================
Yes and I believe accuracy went up after that.

IIRC that's when they started to miss.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-05 12:23am

Maybe Tuvok is cross-eyed

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 2002-07-05 12:42pm

"Ecept if you read the Hate Mail in question rather than the erroneous posting of the person that brought it up A) Mike didn't treat it as a red herring he actaully answered the point and laughed at the idiot that made it, Rogers never answered him back on it. B) The point had nothing to do with Phasers as Rogers actually was talking about *ramming* the TIE's head-on."

Actually, you're wrong. Rodgers DID answer Wong's reply. Wong simply did not INCLUDE that answer, as he could not refute it. Do you understand that point being made? Let's state it simply:

1. Wong HOSTS the Hate Mail page.
2. Wong EDITS the Hate Mail page, which means:
3. Wong is able to include or exclude material in such a way as to manipulate the overall tone and context of what appears in the exchanges which appear on his Hate Mail page. Wong is responsible to nothing but his own conscience, and his conscience apparently does not issue even the smallest whimper at his lack of ethics or impartiality. He clearly admits as much on this site.

Maybe it's time for some of those reading this to take a break from cooing over what Wong says, and ask yourselves what Wong does NOT say.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » 2002-07-05 01:03pm

So your claiming Wong edited his Hate Mail section Just to make you look like an idiot??

I'm claiming you didn't need his help...

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 2002-07-05 01:18pm

Really? Fine enough for you to say, but it's my theory.

I'll tell you what. Play "devil's advocate" if you dare. Debate Wong on some point, any point you choose. Keep every message, and see which ones make it to the page and which don't.

I have. You'd be surprised. Then again, maybe your intellect would just roll over and go back to sleep.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-05 01:23pm

Well, then why not post the complete exchage here?

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » 2002-07-05 01:23pm

Really?? You kept EVERY Correspondance in full??

Well then, why don't you put them up on a site and let us see the differece, Hmmmmm??

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 2002-07-05 01:27pm

First time I've had a request for them. They're on a backup server. Give me a couple hours.