Finally adding to my canon database

[Robert Walper]

I'm curious DarkStar, why do you hang around when you're constantly being flamed and insulted? Sometimes, one must merely throw up their hands and admit others will never accept your viewpoints.

I'd like to mention I won't get drawn into this particular debate, but I'm curious as to why you continue to subject yourself to the aggression others are showing you here? Your choice of course, but from what I've read, you're making no headway...

Anyhow, later.

[DarkStar]

Let's face it, there is enough circumstantial evidence to point to the fact that in the Star Trek universe, KE weapons are considered antiques and are no longer deployted on a wide scale.

. . . though when Starfleet wanted to have a weapon available in situations where phasers were useless, what's the first thing they turned to?

This makes perfect sense, when you consider that a KE projectile would damage the hulls (and integrity) of spacegoing vessels.

Are you saying a guy with a pistol can crack the hull of the Enterprise?

But since they probably never or rarely encounter aliens that fight back with KE weapons, they have neglected that defense. Bullets and claws and knives, et al, are considered irrelevant.

I'll go with you as far as claws and knives (though they better do something different if they want to assimilate the Klingons), but given that even a late 24th Century power was considering fielding a projectile weapon, I'm afraid I can't agree that the Borg consider bullets irrelevant. They would find them very relevant.

[DarkStar]

By not answering to my first question, thus I accept that you are unable to point to even a SINGLE episode that shows Borg drone's selective KE shielding.

We're all engaging in conjecture, you mindless retard. That was stated from the get-go.

By pointing to your feces-made sacred place URL as your answer to my second question, thus I accept that all you got are premises that UNABLE TO PROOF your "drone's selective KE shielding" bullshit.

Of course not, dipshit. The point, however, is that I have demonstrated that my conjecture is reasonable and sound, and, as far as I am concerned, is far more likely than the alternative.

However, the fact remains that it is conjecture. The fact that you expect me to "PROOF" it absolutely is just your own stupidity being demonstrated for all to see.

PS: now, about those emoticons... You know, the reason I show all those twisted emoticon faces to you is simply because no emoticon has the picture of ASS.

So, you want to put a lot of asses on here. What are you, the crazy cracker from up on the hill?

[DarkStar]

I'm curious DarkStar, why do you hang around when you're constantly being flamed and insulted? Sometimes, one must merely throw up their hands and admit others will never accept your viewpoints.

In the midst of all the Warsie shenanigans and red herrings, occasionally someone will come up with something decent, or show that further explanation is required in order to try to idiot-proof my arguments.

For instance, despite Picard's statement on the holographic bullets, Warsies still whine. Therefore, my website has been rendered a bit more idiot-proof by pointing out why the whinings are inaccurate.

Even KAN has offerred one remotely valid point, in regards to whether Voyager would have had the replicator pattern for the TR-116 available. This led me to believe that, while it probably did, I should better separate the Voyager and Federation data sets, in order to make the argument more idiot-proof. Of course, the argument ends up in the same place whether the TR-116 was in Voyager's computer or not . . . it just ends up there twice.

Your choice of course, but from what I've read, you're making no headway...

It depends on how one defines headway. I use the Warsies to further my own ends. I would very much like it if I could have a rational discussion with a real pro-Wars debater, but so far the only person I've found for that sort of thing . . . whether here, at ASVS, or at SpaceBattles . . . is Cromag.

[His Divine Shadow]

I'm curious DarkStar, why do you hang around when you're constantly being flamed and insulted? Sometimes, one must merely throw up their hands and admit others will never accept your viewpoints.

Isn't it obvious? It's not really about winning or loosing it's about pissing the warsies of by deing dense as neutronium, it's the new G2K strategy, that and spreading disinformation and lies too ofcourse.
I am not sure yet though wheter G2K is going to fade away again like last time, he does that you know, comes, acts like an idiot, removes all possibility for actual debate and progression, then after being asskicked one time too many he leaves whingly, then returns, I belive this is his third return as of yet, except now he's changed his name so his intentions won't be spotted.

This is ofcourse a fun read too, to see what other trekkies think of him:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Guard ... .de&rnum=1

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

By pointing to your feces-made sacred place URL as your answer to my second question, thus I accept that all you got are premises that UNABLE TO PROOF your "drone's selective KE shielding" bullshit.

Of course not, dipshit. The point, however, is that I have demonstrated that my conjecture is reasonable and sound, and, as far as I am concerned, is far more likely than the alternative.

However, the fact remains that it is conjecture. The fact that you expect me to "PROOF" it absolutely is just your own stupidity being demonstrated for all to see.

CONCESSION ACCEPTED. Your premise cannot *prove* the existence of borg drone's selective KE shielding.

By not answering to my first question, thus I accept that you are unable to point to even a SINGLE episode that shows Borg drone's selective KE shielding.

We're all engaging in conjecture, you mindless retard. That was stated from the get-go.

Which is no problem IF you simply said that it is possible that borg drone has selective KE shielding .

But did you? Nah. You suck your own cock by saying that it is more reasonable to say that Borg drones have selective KE shielding, than saying the drones doesn't have KE shielding.

Your conjecture require MANY requirements to be met to conclude that Borg drones have selective KE shielding.

By the way, can you say Occam Razor?

Nah, I guess you can't.

PS: now, about those emoticons... You know, the reason I show all those twisted emoticon faces to you is simply because no emoticon has the picture of ASS.

So, you want to put a lot of asses on here. What are you, the crazy cracker from up on the hill?

[/quote]
NOBODY has to be a crazy cracker from up on the hill to show their ASS to you, FuckStar.

[DarkStar]

CONCESSION ACCEPTED. Your premise cannot *prove* the existence of borg drone's selective KE shielding.

WTF? Concession? The point was never to conclusively prove the existence of anything. Are you unfamiliar with the meaning of the term "conjecture"?

You might as well scream "Concession accepted" about some other brutally obvious thing, like me speaking English or breathing air or something.

"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots!
And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're spreading
their stupidity! At least they were contained before -- now they're on
the loose everywhere!"
-- Harlan Ellison in The Onion

[DarkStar]

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=conjecture

[Master of Ossus]

By not answering to my first question, thus I accept that you are unable to point to even a SINGLE episode that shows Borg drone's selective KE shielding.

We're all engaging in conjecture, you mindless retard. That was stated from the get-go.

Note how he claims that hypothesizing in either direction on the Borg KE shielding is equally valid (as conjecture). In fact, this is not true. All circumstantial evidence points to a conclusion that the Borg do not have KE shielding.

[SirNitram]

The more he sinks into debate, the more like The One Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken he becomes. Note the *EMPHASIS* first pioneered by TJ, the tactical snipping of relevent data, and refusal to understand normal rules of debate. Wierd, really. Is this the end result of Trek debators, exposed to too much Treknobabble? Or just the madness of a truly mad man?

[TheDarkling]

MOO: Thats not really true there is alot of "evidence" pointing towards his conclusion whereas the counter point is simply we have never seen it.

SirNitram: *EMPHASIS* ?? that isnt him typing like that.

[SirNitram]

MOO: Thats not really true there is alot of "evidence" pointing towards his conclusion whereas the counter point is simply we have never seen it.

SirNitram: *EMPHASIS* ?? that isnt him typing like that.

Well damn, there goes my cool theory. I'm going to have to hurt someone's self worth now.

DARKLING DARKLING DARKLING DARKLING!

It's just not the same...

[DarkStar]

Note how he claims that hypothesizing in either direction on the Borg KE shielding is equally valid (as conjecture).

No, Ossus, that is not what I said. Go re-read the words I actually used, and come back when you have determined their actual meaning.

[His Divine Shadow]

Actually it's pretty inconsistent. In "Ship in the Bottle", Picard throws a book, apparently solid, out - it instantly disintegrates in the doorway. But Cyrus Redblock (sp?) and crony walk right off the holodeck in "The Big Goodbye" and stand in the corridor, then take at least five seconds to dissipate. It is very unclear what determines what is replicated and what is just forcefields, let alone Cyrus(I think)'s temporary existence

A book is more complex than a bullet though, simple crap like snow particles, and possibly lead bullets are replicated, it's also easier to simulate their effects by actually creating them and letting reality do it's job, and it could still be the infamous holomatter crap wich is like real matter, but dissipates outside the confines of the holodeck.

Couldn't or didn't? Remember, the Borg have a physical advantage over almost any melee combatant - and Worf only took 1 Borg out with his knife. Considering his success, he should have continued to fight Borg with his knife - and knowing Worf, he would have, if he believed he had ANY chance of victory.

I definitly say couldn't because they never displayed that ability even though they don't have any worthwhile physical advantage over a human except in the strenght department.
They move like staggering zombies, the E-E crew with Katanas, Broadswords and Slaymores vs. Borg Drones, now that I would pay to see

And because the 29th century borg displayed this ability, and it was special, and no other borg drones ever displayed that on their own.

What is "holo-matter"? Why would it degrade outside the holodeck? Why couldn't Picard ask the holodeck to make the gun "real"? Obviously the same couldn't be done for Cyrus Redblock, but making a gun real is much easier.

I do not know why not, Picard could honestly think it wouldn't do him an iota worth of good.
This holomatter has been discussed before though somewhere...

Why would the holodeck make bullets real but not guns?

Maybe to stop people from taking them off the holodeck? :p

What about bullets sprayed at walls? Are THOSE bullets real? Does the holodeck make bullets "real" only when it knows they will hit a real person? Turning off the safety protocols makes it possible to be hurt.

Yes and to simulate the best possible effect is to just allow the thing to be actually real, or semi-real.
Saves alot of computer power.
All it has to do is to have force-fields around the walls and disintegrate them as they come close.

It does NOT make the holodeck into an "intentional death zone" where it tries to hurt the players!
(though it often seems so)

You propose that the bullet is "real", i.e. survivable off the holodeck, when protocols are inactive. This is not necessarily true; in fact, as DarkStar pointed out, "real" bullets would damage the walls of the holodeck. Safety protocols prevent harm from occuring; they should NOT make the holodeck extra-deadly when deactivated, and definitely not damage the deck itself.

Neither of that is neccesarily true with real bullets, even so, what does a real bullet differ from a holo-matter bullet?
well not in any way that matters, though in assmunchies brain it turns it into a non-ke energy weapon.

Also, as simple holo-objects can be made "real" and taken off the deck ("The Killing Game", explosives and guns) by command, Picard COULD have done so with the gun. And we are back to my original conclusion: Borg can adapt to bullets, or he (and Word for not continuing to hack n'slash Borg back in the corridors) is an idiot.

Picard must be an idiot if he did not, because thats the one consistent type of energy we've seen Borg Drones to be vulnerable to.

[Nobody]

[Best Jar Jar imitation] When in trouble, DarkStar goes to sacred place.

The scary thing is, I could hear that...

[Master of Ossus]

Note how he claims that hypothesizing in either direction on the Borg KE shielding is equally valid (as conjecture).

No, Ossus, that is not what I said. Go re-read the words I actually used, and come back when you have determined their actual meaning.

WTF? Here's the quote. Interpret it.

By not answering to my first question, thus I accept that you are unable to point to even a SINGLE episode that shows Borg drone's selective KE shielding.

We're all engaging in conjecture, you mindless retard. That was stated from the get-go.

You call KAN a mindless retard because we are all engaging in conjecture. Unfortunately, there is some evidence for the "Warsie" side and no evidence for your side. That is what you said. Denying your statement can only make things worse, DarkStar.

BTW, everybody, this is a tactic that DarkStar frequently uses. When caught with his own words, he insists that we misinterpreted them. You can read more about these on the "Ripping Apart Darkstar's...." thread. I think he blatantly did it at least twice there, so Nitram and I just went back and quoted him. In my case, he kind of apologized, but in Nitram's case it only got him dug in further. The best advice is to quote him and then ask what he actually meant. He will usually either have to apologize or go back and stick his neck out even farther over the chopping block.

[TheDarkling]

Darkstar list his evidence on his website.

The wars side is simply we havent seen it and it wasnt used when worf started chopping but that can be explained in multiple ways.

I will simply say again that this argument cant be solved and it comes odwn to personal choice on which theory you choose (I personally choose to remain neutral since there just isnt anyway to know for certain).

[Darth Wong]

Darkstar list his evidence on his website.

The wars side is simply we havent seen it and it wasnt used when worf started chopping but that can be explained in multiple ways.

I will simply say again that this argument cant be solved and it comes odwn to personal choice on which theory you choose (I personally choose to remain neutral since there just isnt anyway to know for certain).

And because you don't want to apply Occam's Razor since it weakens Trek in this situation.

[TheDarkling]

we have seen many examples of shielding (Fed troops have Personal force fields etc etc), we have seen a drone with a shield that prevented physical damage (better than a borg ship) yes this was an advanced Borg but I dnt htink its made clear whether this ability is a better version of the current oh hell.... whatever I just dont really care.

[Master of Ossus]

Dagger /= bullet.

Moron.

Irrelevent.

No, on-topic.

Look everyone, DarkStar has completely emasculated my argument by cutting and pasting. That reminds me so much of TOWNMNBS that I wondered briefly if it was the same person.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Irrelevent.

No, on-topic.

Look everyone, DarkStar has completely emasculated my argument by cutting and pasting. That reminds me so much of TOWNMNBS that I wondered briefly if it was the same person.

Ahh.... classic FuckStar' tactic. Cutting & pasting his opponent's argument to select which one he'll reply to and which one he'll completely ignore. Cowardly hypocrite FuckStar.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Guys, to prevent this thread to be another one of FuckStar's "I'm right and everybody else is wrong", especially since there are users like seanrobertson who just want to discus about Mike's update to canon database, then I suggest we move to the thread 'FuckStar's "Borg drone selective KE shield" pet argument'

(which is unfortinately written as 'FuckStar's "Borg drone selective KE shield" pe')

[DarkStar]

Ossus, you pitiful idiot . . .

Note how he claims that hypothesizing in either direction on the Borg KE shielding is equally valid (as conjecture).

No, Ossus, that is not what I said. Go re-read the words I actually used, and come back when you have determined their actual meaning.

WTF? Here's the quote. Interpret it.

We're all engaging in conjecture, you mindless retard. That was stated from the get-go.

You call KAN a mindless retard because we are all engaging in conjecture.

Yes. In case you had not noticed, KAN can't seem to figure out the difference between conjecture and an argument that is intended to be conclusive in nature.

Therefore, by asking for an episode which shows selective KE shielding, he was basically asking for undeniable proof of the conjecture. If there were undeniable proof of the conjecture, we wouldn't be conjecturing, now would we?

Unfortunately, there is some evidence for the "Warsie" side and no evidence for your side.

That is a stupid lie.

BTW, everybody, this is a tactic that DarkStar frequently uses. When caught with his own words, he insists that we misinterpreted them.

You did. Moron.

[DarkStar]

And because you don't want to apply Occam's Razor since it weakens Trek in this situation.

Selective KE shielding is not a multiplication of entities. We already know that it exists in the Trek universe. Refer to atmospheric containment shields, or the personal defense shield used by Kivas Fajo in "The Most Toys"[TNG].

[DarkStar]

or the personal defense shield used by Kivas Fajo in "The Most Toys"[TNG].

Hmm . . . nevermind on that one.