Darkstar Poll

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-06 03:36pm

Ender: You will notice I said for the most part, Yes the Darth Vader thing was stupid but that isnt exactly what he said.

Low hyperspace? I missed that one.

I also cant remeber him saying Corvettes werent Cap ships I remember some arguing over the Medical frigate but I cant this - was this when he was arguing the size that makes a ship a cap ship or something I think I have a vague memory of it.

He doesnt recognise the Unknown regions remember so thats out.

He has explained his canon policy many times - he onky accepts canon for his theories but if he is debunking a pro wars argument based on EU then he will use EU.

Paramount has the final say on canon not G R and TOS is accepted as canon - although it doesnt exactly help Pro Trek accept for the Cult of the Connie people.

The link for LTL's was misleading but he said this is the max fire power that can be calculated from the films and for that he was correct although making a note that these were LTLs should have been done.

The entire EU/Canon debate raged on for several pages and I couldnt be bothered to read it so I cant comment there except to say that his opponent didnt seem to be going postal as Darkstars opponents usually do.

Apart from the stupid Vader comment (which I put down to the fact that he was fighting 10 on 1 at the time) bhe hasnt really made hhuge mistakes just small ones.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-06 04:08pm

Let me put it this way

What are the possible Chances of him actual saying somthing useful, IE Contributing to the disccusion on the board instead of simply wasting space

When we see that its higher than the DS Power level we know its time to get rid of him

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-06 05:07pm

Well he's proof of my assertation that being human doesn't nessarily make you sentient.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-06 05:45pm

I should point something out to you, Darkling. His entire argument for Canon is that one Lucas quote should be held above all other quotes he makes, even those where he's asked to clarify the canon policy, and, and this is the important part, numerous statements from Lucasfilm on the subject. Just as Paramount has the final say for Canon in Trek, we must abide by Lucasfilm's rules for Canon for Wars.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-06 06:01pm

I agree with you I have never agreed with his view on canon policy although when I looked into that thread he had at least 5 quotes backing him up (although I didnt read them) ask the guy he was having that debate with for more details or take a read of it, it doesnt really imterest me.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-09-06 06:22pm

Fucking idiot. He was sorta amusing before. But once he said that you could compare Mike's site to a site where SW weapons were light bulb power level and ST were megayottawatt level (I swear, he did use that) but just flip the numbers to give SW uber levels, he stopped being funny.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-09-06 06:33pm

His posts are often without subtance but banning him would just "comfurm" his biase and really solve nothing. True he is beyond true debate cause he never considers evidence on I'm right and your wrong is his debate style

He's pulled the now laser argument amung other dialogue falicies.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-09-06 06:46pm

He was funny at first, but now he's just being a dumbass, and who cares what he thinks, he already insults this site on his, I say let Wong's Imperial Smackdown RAPE him, link it to SB and ASVS and then ban him.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-06 06:56pm

Isolder74 wrote:His posts are often without subtance but banning him would just "comfurm" his biase and really solve nothing. True he is beyond true debate cause he never considers evidence on I'm right and your wrong is his debate style

Nothing will "solve" him; he will whine about how we couldn't stand his awesome intellect so we had to "silence" him, but he does that already.

Let me rephrase the question: would the calibre of discussion go up without him around? Would we see better discussions?

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-09-06 07:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:His posts are often without subtance but banning him would just "comfurm" his biase and really solve nothing. True he is beyond true debate cause he never considers evidence on I'm right and your wrong is his debate style
Nothing will "solve" him; he will whine about how we couldn't stand his awesome intellect so we had to "silence" him, but he does that already.

Let me rephrase the question: would the calibre of discussion go up without him around? Would we see better discussions?

Yes yes yes yes yes!!!!

I saw his site (well, what I could- most of it brought up forbidden access messages), and his lack of knowledge about Star Trek repulsed me. Stand by folks, there might be a Trekkie civil war coming soon, because of this guy.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-09-06 07:09pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:His posts are often without subtance but banning him would just "comfurm" his biase and really solve nothing. True he is beyond true debate cause he never considers evidence on I'm right and your wrong is his debate style
Nothing will "solve" him; he will whine about how we couldn't stand his awesome intellect so we had to "silence" him, but he does that already.

Let me rephrase the question: would the calibre of discussion go up without him around? Would we see better discussions?

Probably not. There would just be some other troll that will take his place.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-06 07:45pm

Sothis: The people who post over at a pure trektech site seemed to think he had some good ideas but I would like to see you declare war, the message board is getting boring (except for the Planetary shield thread that seems to have go pro trek with less than a challenge)

.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-06 07:57pm

Let me rephrase the question: would the calibre of discussion go up without him around? Would we see better discussions?

Very much so, half of the intresting disccusions are ruined by Dark-Star trotting in to spew his retoric

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-09-06 08:19pm

Hmmm. DarkStar takes his handle from a movie he's never seen, and insults that movie in the mere act of doing so. He's a crap writer, who types to no end just for exercise since his mock-penis rejects his fingers. Doesn't do anything outside the TV room. Can't talk about anything else. Thinks he's the Only Trekkie. Can't get laid. Can't drive a stick. Can't shoot a gun. Won't serve the country. Can't do math. Won't acknowledge when people know their subject matter. Won't answer cogent questions. Won't make a compelling post. Hmm, I say "worthless". I say "fucking". I say "idiot".

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-06 08:38pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
DarkStar wrote:Are there any other pro-Trek debaters here?
TheDarkling

SCVN

Alyeska

Romulan Nemesis (where's he gone to, anyway?)

Not that you've paid any attention.

They all seem to disappear whenever DarkStar shows up.

There must not be any connection.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-06 08:50pm

Believe it or not, I voted for "Not Really." On the one hand, he's an annoying SOB, and I hope to create a thread insulting him, as soon as the mods get back to me on whether it's okay or not. I also find him astonishingly stupid, and irritating.

On the other hand, he might not be worth banning. He has so utterly destroyed his own reputation that he does nothing to either side.

I think that the quality of discussion might go up if we banned him, but I also don't think that that would make him shut up. His mind bogglingly stupid website would still be up, and he would likely claim that we banned him because we could not defeat him reasonably.

Of course, one could argue that if the only reason he isn't banned is because of what he would do if banned, then he should be banned, but I really don't think that his behavior has become threatening to anybody. Also, I am so anxious to see the impending Imperial Smack Down (TM) on DarkStar that I really want him around just so he'll read it. I don't know about this. He is certainly a complete idiot, but banning him might not be necessary.... yet.

And Darkling, he did argue that Corvettes were not capital ships (remember that he was trying not to admit that he was wrong about the capital ship issue, and so he was forced into defending his position on Corvettes not being capital ships).

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-09-06 09:04pm

And Darkling, he did argue that Corvettes were not capital ships (remember that he was trying not to admit that he was wrong about the capital ship issue, and so he was forced into defending his position on Corvettes not being capital ships).

...under the right conditions, DS will argue that Corvettes are not made by Chevorlet.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-06 09:10pm

I dmnt doubt he did so I just said I couldnt remember it, thats Darkstars pattern if he is forced into a position where h has to admit defeat on one issue or throw sanity out the window he throws sanity out the window.

The Vader thing is a perfect examlpe - He states Fed Meditech > Imp Meditech.
Both you and I commented that there could be an actual case made for this but instead of saying "Yes they gave Vader a metal spine however fed medical science actually grew a new spine or can retrain dead nerves" he said something to the effect of "Those arent X rays so they cant be trusted" (a somewhat valid point but the "x ray" still gives enough evidence to indicate the metal implants) "those could just be more dense bone" (Shakey ground but coupled with the prior argument he has a few toes to stand on) "SW are different that RL humans" (Ouch he just killed himself the other arguements were weak but this just sent up a flare to his opposition of where to strike).

His intial ideas on some things actually have merit but once he starts taking heavy fire he has a tendancy to go crazy and destroy his own argument by default.

The above example just has so many errors its unbelievable,
1.He let his enemy set the terroritory to fight upon i.e Vaders implants, I would have conceded that but opened up with Fed meditech bonuses (possibly attack the Vader evidence if it was too damaging to the argument but in this case it wasnt).

2.He makes a number of statements without giving evidence.

3.After this point he concentrated on one of his defense however he had already opened up the floodgates to sniping based upon his Vader comment.

4.He is now forced to defend his weakest sub-theory which distacts the argument onto much worse ground from which to fight.

5.Because he cant cut his losses and admit defeat on this issue he spirals out of control and his main argument is lost.

6.He makes a statement which he cant believe is true which I see as the greatest crime of all because its dishonest, this is very similiar to when debators use evidence to come to a conclusion they believe is wrong but push ahead because it forwards their cause (Federation evil anyone??)

The above is why I would prefer Darkstar to have a one on one showdown - less pressure so he can give his arguments more thought and he also cant dodge the opponents rebuttals.

All that writting for no real purpose.....

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-06 09:11pm

Ossus I'll ask you this

How many intresting possibly good debates have been ruined by Dark-Star steping in with the wall of ignorance

I can think of four of the top of my head, between the second round of the Subtrance debate with Darkling to the first Phase Cloak debate ... with darkling agian... And that one about Transwarp
.............
With Darkling

I think Shadow posted to that one

And the last one of Romulans about ST Ground Tatics that degenerate into look at the weak AT-AT's while I ignore you thanks to Dark-star

Right now the tide seems to ban, The quality of this board can not fail to go up as he contribes nothing and starts no topics other than to hark his site

To quote PHB
PHB: All the desisions are made above me and I don't work on the projects
PHB: Carol what do I produce agian?
Carol:Carbon Dixodie, Our plants would need it if they where not plastic thanks to you

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-09-06 09:59pm

::A large blue holographic head appears in the massive chamber. The sole officer occupant kneels before the mighty visage.::

Lord Wong: 'Rise my poster.'
Wright: 'What is thy bidding my master?'
Lord Wong: 'Take the 'Blight' and an accompanying fleet to the dimmest system of the outter rim. Hunt the Darkstar and eliminate him.'
Wright: 'Yes my Lord. I will have this task accomplished in a matter of days.'

:: A loud cackle echos through the chamber as the officer quickly strides to his duties.::

Well, Corky never replied to my post so I must have won. Besides the point that he invents facts, distorts truths, and when he does manage to post pictures on his website, he doesn't just link them on a board by a site that he bashes, he lies about what the pictures show then argues down anyone that goes against him. Personally I don't care what you guys do to the little fuck. Just make him shut up every now and then. Hell, 3PO did.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-06 10:51pm

oberon wrote:Doesn't do anything outside the TV room. Can't talk about anything else.

You imply that he can talk about SW and ST. That is more credit than I give him.[/i]

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-09-07 03:30am

Master of Ossus wrote:
oberon wrote:Doesn't do anything outside the TV room. Can't talk about anything else.
You imply that he can talk about SW and ST. That is more credit than I give him.[/i]

The only credit DarkStar has is that he can talk about SW and ST..... uhhh... can he? Well, at least he can talk.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-09-07 04:13am

I made two observations about Darkstar:

-His method of operation follows the simple dictum of "If it hurts SW, hold to it at all costs." He has a near-religious zeal to tear down SW's strengths... for evidence of this, just look at the fuss he'll put up about the EU, or the "rings" made by the Alderaan explosion.

-He likes being contradictory for the sake of being contradictory.

Beyond that, he follows the rule of argumentum ad infinitum... he just keeps repeating his assertions, ignoring evidence that counters his assertions, and responds with the same assertions to people who make different assertions. He doesn't know when things have "gone too far", and he's obviously one of those poor fools who thinks "Because everyone's against me, I must be right" (a Galileo complex, if you will).

Yes, I do debate him tooth and nail, primarily because I love debate. But sometimes, when I'm not in the mood, I'll let something slide for a day or two... hell, even a few hours. When I finally do return, I find that the thread had ballooned to 10 or 15 pages, without a SINGLE instance of DS backing down. He obviously thinks very highly of himself, for he believes that he and only he can make a cogent point in a debate.

A few weeks ago, I would've said he's harmless. But Wong's right... it's gotten to the point where perfectly good threads become utterly destroyed the second Darkstar appears. And while I usually have no qualms with hijacks in general, I find it quite rude of him to consistenly steer a discussion towards his own tired arguments. He's quite the One-Trick Pony.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-09-07 07:03am

From my observation, it seems that DarkStar has the intelligence of average Borg drone. Heck, he may talk and walk like a Borg drone too.....

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » 2002-09-07 07:13am

SPOOFE wrote: -His method of operation follows the simple dictum of "If it hurts SW, hold to it at all costs." He has a near-religious zeal to tear down SW's strengths...

No, I just stand by the evidence, and arguments which are not proven false. I question all statements, including my own, to be sure that they hold weight. If they do not, I will not support them.

-He likes being contradictory for the sake of being contradictory.

Cute . . . I can't say "No, I don't" without then being contradictory.

Beyond that, he follows the rule of argumentum ad infinitum... he just keeps repeating his assertions, ignoring evidence that counters his assertions, and responds with the same assertions to people who make different assertions.

I repeat myself because (A.) people craft stupid straw men of my argument or (B.) people ignore basic parts of my argument or basic facts of the evidence. This is most notable on occasions where, as you put it, I respond with the same assertions . . . assertions to the contrary are responded to in that way because the basic facts are being ignored by whoever has made the assertion to the contrary. In cases where they are not, I reply with a counterargument.

The only 'evidence' which I ignore is the EU, but that's hardly evidence, except in a discussion on an EU topic, such as the neutronium thing . . . in those cases, I do not ignore it.

"Because everyone's against me, I must be right" (a Galileo complex, if you will).

If you'll recall, I've had to tell Ossus on several prior occasions that having people agree with me is irrelevant. The reverse, that having people disagree with me is irrelevant, is also true. While I do find Warsie Groupthink an amusing phenomenon, it has no bearing on the truth or falsehood of my statements.

And while I usually have no qualms with hijacks in general, I find it quite rude of him to consistenly steer a discussion towards his own tired arguments.

This I find most amusing, especially in reference to Wong's whine in this thread about how his "Database" thread was 'hijacked'. Should you deign to actually look at that thread, you'll note that I pointed out a precisely on-topic piece of data . . . and then the Warsies started talking about stupid ideas like the Roman Empire defeating the Borg.

And yet, I am to be blamed for the thread going off-topic.

Riiiiiight.

Hell, I often become a topic in threads even when I'm not participating in them.

In my estimation, my departure would leave this little enclave of the Warsie Support Group phenomenon weakened. I am the great evil, the Pro-Trek Debater, the glue that binds. I'm the horrible, horrible person who waltzes in here and questions the support group's carefully guarded, remarkably delicate, intellectually dishonest beliefs, ranging from the belief that everyone including Lucas accepts the EU as fact ('Movie Purist' pro-canon Star Wars fans and Lucas disagree), to the belief that there really isn't much difference between the Alderaan scene in the Original or the SE (as incorrectly stated on Wong's site). By attacking the support group's beliefs, I become the favorite whipping-boy for any retard who wants to try to earn cool points in the eyes of his fellow Warsies. Naturally, this being a support group, any attack on me, no matter how full of distortions, misrepresentations, or out-right lies, is regaled as fact by the 'yes-man' groupthink. No one dares actually read what I say, and no one dares agree with me, lest the threat (as expressed by Ossus) of having "Village Idiot" stamped under their name come to pass.

But, psychological observations aside, the fact is that all of these Warsie shenanigans are irrelevant. I accept the BS, and move on, because I'm using you. My purpose is to put my arguments to a trial by fire . . . though this often simply becomes trial by flame . . . and see how they hold up. If (or, more commonly, when) none of you can make a decent counterargument, I know the argument is strong . . . if, as is more common, a clever Warsie deceit appears to counteract some element of my argument, I will know that I need to make the argument more idiot-proof.

Naturally, with the high correlation of 'Warsie' and 'idiot', many of you seem to think that the clever sophistries of your comrades constitute devastating disproof of this or that. Alternately, it might be the Warsie Groupthink . . . you barely read what I say, but pay careful attention to the counterarguments, and assume that they must be accurate, no matter whether they are based on straw men, outright falsehood, or what-have-you.

Whatever the case, your opinions are irrelevant. Only fiction requires the support of believers . . . facts stand on their own.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Darkstar Poll

Does Darkstar contribute anything useful to this board?

Believe me...