The Reign of Trump

[Solauren]

I have actually heard a valid argument for ending it.

When the parents didn't mean to have the kid in the States, but have to, the kid automatically gets citizenship (regardless of the parents wishes).
The kid then has the IRS hounding them when they are adults.

At the very least, there needs to be adjustments on it, so that parents can 'op-out' on behalf of their kid.

And our right reversal, however? Probably not.

It seems like a better idea to let the kid decide if they opt out when they are an adult. So make that easy.

But only they get to make that decision for themselves.

That's probably the best way to do it.

[Ralin]

It would have to be set up only for those children born in the US to non-Us Citizens, or that had not been granted refugee status.

The child of a US citizen would still automatically get citizenship if born within US jurisdiction.

And the children of non-US citizens with malicious or ignorant parents can potentially get fucked? That's a terrible idea and goes directly against the whole point of making citizenship automatic.

Also, isn't that the case of children born to US Citizens anywhere on Earth?

Weird non-sequitor.

[Luke Starkiller]

I have actually heard a valid argument for ending it.

When the parents didn't mean to have the kid in the States, but have to, the kid automatically gets citizenship (regardless of the parents wishes).
The kid then has the IRS hounding them when they are adults.

At the very least, there needs to be adjustments on it, so that parents can 'op-out' on behalf of their kid.

And our right reversal, however? Probably not.

It seems like a better idea to let the kid decide if they opt out when they are an adult. So make that easy.

But only they get to make that decision for themselves.

That's already a thing; it's called Renunciation and, of course, it is expensive and a giant pain in the ass.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... broad.html

[Ralin]

I have actually heard a valid argument for ending it.

When the parents didn't mean to have the kid in the States, but have to, the kid automatically gets citizenship (regardless of the parents wishes).
The kid then has the IRS hounding them when they are adults.

At the very least, there needs to be adjustments on it, so that parents can 'op-out' on behalf of their kid.

And our right reversal, however? Probably not.

It seems like a better idea to let the kid decide if they opt out when they are an adult. So make that easy.

But only they get to make that decision for themselves.

That's already a thing; it's called Renunciation and, of course, it is expensive and a giant pain in the ass.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... broad.html

Yes the implication is that there should be an alternative way for people who've never lived in the US or something.

[LadyTevar]

God can you imagine putting the power to opt their kid out of birthright citizenship in the hands of religious nut parents, anti government militia types, straight up abusive sadists looking for a means of control, etc?

It would have to be set up only for those children born in the US to non-Us Citizens, or that had not been granted refugee status.

The child of a US citizen would still automatically get citizenship if born within US jurisdiction.

Also, isn't that the case of children born to US Citizens anywhere on Earth?

It's not only US Citizens that have Birthright. Most European Countries guarantee Birthright, and offer it to children born of Citizens living overseas. So this is not a purely US thing.

Taking it away might be first aimed at Immigrants (legal or not), but it's a damned slippery slope that can lead to a two-tier system of Citizens/Non-Citizens, and this is why the Amendment is part of the Constitution in the first place!

[LadyTevar]

Update:
Supreme Court Hears Arguments, Divided over Judges' Powers

This isn't just about Birthright Citizenship, it seems. It's also about Lower Court's Ability to tell Trump Admin "NO!"

US President Donald Trump took his bid to end birthright citizenship to the US Supreme Court on Thursday, in a case that could help further his agenda on immigration and other issues.

The case asks whether lower court judges should be able to block presidential orders for the entire country - as they have done in this case. The justices did not appear to reach a consensus as they considered both sides.

The US solicitor general argued that lower courts overstepped their authority, saying this power should be curtailed.

Meanwhile, the New Jersey solicitor general - arguing on behalf of a group of states - said siding with Trump would create a patchwork system of citizenship.

This case just got a helluva lot more complex.

[Ralin]

God can you imagine putting the power to opt their kid out of birthright citizenship in the hands of religious nut parents, anti government militia types, straight up abusive sadists looking for a means of control, etc?

It would have to be set up only for those children born in the US to non-Us Citizens, or that had not been granted refugee status.

The child of a US citizen would still automatically get citizenship if born within US jurisdiction.

Also, isn't that the case of children born to US Citizens anywhere on Earth?

It's not only US Citizens that have Birthright. Most European Countries guarantee Birthright, and offer it to children born of Citizens living overseas. So this is not a purely US thing.

Taking it away might be first aimed at Immigrants (legal or not), but it's a damned slippery slope that can lead to a two-tier system of Citizens/Non-Citizens, and this is why the Amendment is part of the Constitution in the first place!

1) We're talking about automatically granting citizenship to anyone born in the US, not children of US citizens born abroad and 2) Aren't there prominent examples of European countries like France that do not give automatic citizenship to everyone born there and as a result have multi-generational minority communities of people who have lived there their entire lives and aren't considered citizens?

[Solauren]

This case just got a helluva lot more complex.

Donald Trump is using this to challenge the entire US legal system at once.

If lower courts are told that only the US Supreme Court can stop the POTUS, and the Supreme Court already said that Trump can't be held for any official actions as president....


Guess Musk giving the Nazi salute looks prophetic now?

[LadyTevar]

This case just got a helluva lot more complex.

Donald Trump is using this to challenge the entire US legal system at once.

If lower courts are told that only the US Supreme Court can stop the POTUS, and the Supreme Court already said that Trump can't be held for any official actions as president....


Guess Musk giving the Nazi salute looks prophetic now?

And right now, there is nothing we can do about it.
AFTER they make a decision, and if it's against the Lower Courts, we can attempt to appeal, but that's gonna be a long fight.

[Solauren]

That's assuming that IF the Supreme Court rules in Trumps favor, Trump doesn't pass and executive order after banning lower courts from challenging him, based on that decision.

[Rogue 9]

That's assuming that IF the Supreme Court rules in Trumps favor, Trump doesn't pass and executive order after banning lower courts from challenging him, based on that decision.

The courts would laugh at it. An executive order is merely the President telling the executive departments he oversees to do something. He does not oversee Article III courts.

[Solauren]

Does Trump oversee any departments that he could order to arrest members of the Lower Courts if they challenged him?

[Raw Shark]

God can you imagine putting the power to opt their kid out of birthright citizenship in the hands of religious nut parents, anti government militia types, straight up abusive sadists looking for a means of control, etc?

It would have to be set up only for those children born in the US to non-Us Citizens, or that had not been granted refugee status.

The child of a US citizen would still automatically get citizenship if born within US jurisdiction.

Also, isn't that the case of children born to US Citizens anywhere on Earth?

The citizenship laws are unusual here. If American citizens have a kid anywhere that kid is an American citizen. Most places they'll also get dual citizenship. I know two Navy brats who are also legally Italian and Japanese, respectively. Y'know, the guys we fought in WWII that weren't German.

It seems like a better idea to let the kid decide if they opt out when they are an adult. So make that easy.

But only they get to make that decision for themselves.

Merry X-Mas, any adult can renounce citizenship if they want to. There's a little paperwork, but if you really don't want to be an American the position of our government is more or less, "Don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out."

[Raw Shark]

Ghetto Edit: Fun Fact, only one parent was a United States sailor in both of those cases. They were posted overseas so long they both married a local girl.

[Ralin]

Merry X-Mas, any adult can renounce citizenship if they want to. There's a little paperwork, but if you really don't want to be an American the position of our government is more or less, "Don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out."

Haha no it's a ridiculously expensive and troublesome pain in the ass to do and you can't even be sure the government won't decide to go backsies afterwards.

[Raw Shark]

Haha no it's a ridiculously expensive and troublesome pain in the ass to do and you can't even be sure the government won't decide to go backsies afterwards.

Okay, I should've edited that say, "...if you have the money." Like everything here.

[Ralin]

Haha no it's a ridiculously expensive and troublesome pain in the ass to do and you can't even be sure the government won't decide to go backsies afterwards.

Okay, I should've edited that say, "...if you have the money." Like everything here.

By all accounts it's difficult and drawn out even if you have money.

[Solauren]

Why make it expensive?

Let anyone that wants to do it, and then put them on a list; If they want to come back, it's going to cost them.

[vakundok]

Sorry, do the Democrats have ideas to improve the US? Because Trump will be very loud that the results will be missing only because he will have been held back (regardless whether anyone remains to do so).

[Ralin]

Why make it expensive?

Taxes

[B5B7]

God can you imagine putting the power to opt their kid out of birthright citizenship in the hands of religious nut parents, anti government militia types, straight up abusive sadists looking for a means of control, etc?

It would have to be set up only for those children born in the US to non-Us Citizens, or that had not been granted refugee status.

The child of a US citizen would still automatically get citizenship if born within US jurisdiction.

Also, isn't that the case of children born to US Citizens anywhere on Earth?

It's not only US Citizens that have Birthright. Most European Countries guarantee Birthright, and offer it to children born of Citizens living overseas. So this is not a purely US thing.

Taking it away might be first aimed at Immigrants (legal or not), but it's a damned slippery slope that can lead to a two-tier system of Citizens/Non-Citizens, and this is why the Amendment is part of the Constitution in the first place!

Two of Australia's Prime Ministers during the past twenty years have been Julia Gillard and Tony Abbot, born in Wales and England respectively. A naturalized American citizen can not become POTUS, so there is a two-tier system of citizenship in USA.

[Raw Shark]

Sorry, do the Democrats have ideas to improve the US? Because Trump will be very loud that the results will be missing only because he will have been held back (regardless whether anyone remains to do so).

We have lots of ideas to improve the US. Too many.

"I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat." --Will Rodgers

[Zwinmar]

What it comes down to is money: if you have it then the magat crowd think you should be a citizen, if you don't , well then, you are nothing and should be a slave. That is why rich South African apartheid assholes get a free pass but if you are brown from a poor country then you are subject to arbitrary arrest with no due process. It is why there is a 5 million dollar gold card to get in.

What the dumbasses don't get is that being a WASP doesn't matter all that matters is who has money and if you are in the bottom half of the US income then you do not matter to them. They want the company store and the Potterville's because fuck you.

If they are allowed to take away birthright citizenship then they will take it away from others as well, they want a serf class who can not complain without getting sent to the Salvadorian gulag, and when shipping them their costs to much, well, they will find a solution that is final

[Raw Shark]

Y'know. Zwinmar and I don't agree on a lot of things. A few differences. But not always. We have the same position about the thing it says in our original laws about firearms, for example. And he's not wrong here.

[Raw Shark]

"Gun control means hitting your target!" --Charlton Heston