Alita (spoilers)

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Alita (spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital »

I thought it was very well done, quite true to the manga in many key moments, and generally much better handled than Ghost in the Shell (ugh).

Too bad it bombed commercially and it is unlikely the film story would ever get to Barjack Chronicle, which is one of the most interesting class struggle depictions in cyberpunk manga. :P
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Bernkastel
Padawan Learner
Posts: 355
Joined: 2010-02-18 09:25am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Bernkastel »

K. A. Pital wrote: 2019-02-16 06:19am I thought it was very well done, quite true to the manga in many key moments, and generally much better handled than Ghost in the Shell (ugh).

Too bad it bombed commercially and it is unlikely the film story would ever get to Barjack Chronicle, which is one of the most interesting class struggle depictions in cyberpunk manga. :P
That's a pity. From what I've heard, even from those with more neutral opinions, it was at least something made with passion and sincere affection. I hoped it would do well enough to get a sequel. It seems deserving of that.

Admittedly, this opinion comes from what I've heard about it, rather than from having seen it myself. I have an aversion to cinemas these days, along with anything that has me stuck in a crowd of people. I'll only see this when it comes out on blu-ray. I do tend to not care about spoilers and I'm after more and more info/opinions in regards to this movie while awaiting that release. From what I've heard, characterization is handled well and the particular element of Alita's unusual eyes does make sense in the film.

Anyway, I might as well look up this Barjack Chronicle. I'm just going to be stuck wondering what we're going to miss out on having adapted otherwise.
My Fanfics - I write gay fanfics. Reviews/Feedback will always be greatly appreciated.
My Ko-Fi Page - Currently Seeking Aid with moving home
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital »

Well, it just opened and will also start in China in a week or so, so it may very well recoup production costs.

It is done with great care and respect towards the source material, but the three first volumes in the manga had fairly distinct stories (first one about fighting Makaku, second one about Hugo and the third one about Motorball), so an attempt to unite them in one plotline - and try to hint at even more - was bound to be a bit problematic.

I found the parts of Ido and Alita particularly well-played. And it is worth a cinema ticket, IMO.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I saw this last weekend and will probably go and see it again later today (nothing else new that I want to see). I thoroughly enjoyed it and would certainly like to see a sequel eventually, though I should say I never saw or read the source material so I am looking at it as a new film with an engaging story, some very interesting worldbuilding stuff, good characters that are well-performed and a storyline that works both as a stand-alone film and as part one of several.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital »

They had to PG13 the source material (no brain-eating junkies and guts flying around everywhere), but still stuck fairly close.

I only found that such a full introduction of Nova was a bit too early. And although I have read all of Alita, Last Order and Mars Chronicle, I cannot remember that Nova was involved in the terraforming wars... (which in the film seems to be the case).
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Q99 »

Good news is it's outperforming the low estimates people had for it's opening- though it remains to be seen whether it can reach the heights it needs, the blow is, at the least, softened.
K. A. Pital wrote: 2019-02-16 08:22am They had to PG13 the source material (no brain-eating junkies and guts flying around everywhere), but still stuck fairly close.

I only found that such a full introduction of Nova was a bit too early. And although I have read all of Alita, Last Order and Mars Chronicle, I cannot remember that Nova was involved in the terraforming wars... (which in the film seems to be the case).
He wasn't, I'm fairly sure he was born after, but it's not the weirdest of changes.
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by mr friendly guy »

My best friend and myself went to see it last week, since we both saw the anime back in the day. I certainly enjoyed it, although it was different from the anime (since they took things from the manga and showed it to us, whereas I got the impression the anime was planning to show it later). So in this case I got a better feel for Alita's origin than watching the anime.

It also changed the theme compared to the anime. With the introduction of Nova as chief bad guy, well the villain in this story was a bad guy, whereas in the anime, I got the "villain" to be the system which has a bunch of rich elites up high and poor people on the ground.

I think it was nice they kept some of the same horror, ie the decapitation of Alita's boyfriend and then killing him after he survives that (hey, does this count as "fridging" Hugo, since it motivates Alita to go after Nova), and the sheer horror of Chiren being dissected and exported to Zolam.

My final verdict was that I enjoyed it, my friend not so much. He felt the fighting wasn't violent enough. :D Still debating whether I should get the blu ray.
*********************************************************************
In regards to the ratings

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/box- ... 203141972/

It looks like Alita needs a bit of an uphill battle to break even. They have to rely on Japan and China to pull it through. Japan is the home of anime, although they have a strong bias towards their own films vs Hollywood ones from what I read. China has shown the potential to save films, Warcraft anyone? Generally superhero (at least Marvel) films net around $100 million USD in China. Although it gave $218.4 million for ready player one, which most probably saved the film (since it made $137.6 million in the domestic market, but cost $175 million to make), and $298 million for Aquaman, so maybe China could save Alita.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital »

Well Nova is arguably not the villain, if you read the manga long enough, but he served as one for 6-7 plot arcs.

Here he is introduced too early for my tastes, could have spent the time on developing the story with Vector & Hugo a bit better.

The really great characters like Kaos & Koyomi come much later in the Manga, which makes the early chapters actually serve as a start for much deeper later chapters.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Vendetta »

I mostly like it as an adaptation.

I like that Alita finds the berserker body rather than Ido just having it lying around in his basement because whatever. I like that they introduce Motorball which I have been waiting to see on a cinema for twenty years. It tightened up Hugo’s arc too.

I wasn’t keen on Nova being used the way he was or killing off Vector. Making Nova a big bad on Zalem threatens to move the action there too fast and the change in the history behind it changes the nature of Yoko’s actions and the way Alita is different.

As just the core of the first story though it was great. (Commercial success not guaranteed for a movie which was basically laser focused on an audience of James Cameron, me, and three other people.)
User avatar
Zor
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5917
Joined: 2004-06-08 03:37am

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Zor »

Frankly I think this film shows that Hollywood can make decent adaptations of Anime.

Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms
WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/ind
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/tra
Terran Sphere
The Art of Zor
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Vendetta »

Zor wrote: 2019-02-20 07:02am Frankly I think this film shows that Hollywood can make decent adaptations of Anime.

Zor
The difference with Alita is that it was always a passion project for Cameron, not just someone buying a license to popular thing in order to squeeze some dollars out of it.
User avatar
Lost Soal
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2614
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Lost Soal »

While the film was enjoyable I feel the OVA did a slightly better job with a more condensed story. Feels off when the live action is two and a half times the length yet finishes in the same place.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Sidewinder »

I personally liked it. There is room for improvement, though. After the sob story Ido gave regarding a motorball player HE PERSONALLY TUNED killing his daughter in a drug-filled rage, the doctor should've expressed far more reluctance to let Alita participate in the sport. Hugo's motivation for going to Zalem, isn't properly defined, compared to Yugo (his manga counterpart). Some character designs (including Zapan's) looks weak, compared to the way they are in the manga.

There are improvements compared to the manga, though. Vector is better developed as a villain; and the whole spoiler regarding what Zalem does with human brains, is something that can easily be left out, considering the original manga artist failed to develop it into anything special. I prefer film Ido's motivation for working as a hunter-warrior (earning enough money to keep his clinic running) more than that of manga Ido (thrill-seeking).
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital »

Ido didn't want Alita to go for Motorball (or get the Berserker body), and I think while it was more subdued in the film, he still was reluctant. And helped only when it was clear she couldn't be swayed.

I agree that the lack of the - pretty good! - backstory for Hugo was a huge mistake: it would have been better to cut down Nova's time, as it was too early for him to be present in person, and tell this story instead.

Ido striving to keep the clinic open is a good change, which feels organic to the first Alita's class struggle setting. I think that with the restart/continuation in "First Order" Kishiro slowly developed the story into a direction that 'sells' but which is no longer raising meaningful questions.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by mr friendly guy »

The pertinent question is, should I rewatch this in 3D? :D
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by mr friendly guy »

Alita has now reach $375 million with $72 million in the US. According to Chinese news, Alita made around $113.3 million U.S. dollars in China. Keep in mind it cost $170 million to make and Japan still to go. Hopefully it goes over $400 million USD. Still a problem though, since I've heard that US studios make around 50% of the ticket sales in the US, while only 25% in China.

Hopefully it makes a small profit on cinema sales alone, and then blu ray/ dvd and other merchandise tips it into a hefty profit so we get a sequel.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37389
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Sea Skimmer »

A profit worth following up seems unlikely at this point, the Japanese film market isn't that big at all. But it was not a well promoted movie so it might not have had the 300 million dollar marketing budget that kills most films profits either. James Cameron first said he was making the movie almost 20 years ago and seems to have kinda just crammed it out between Avatar filmings while nobody noticed with someone else directing, I only knew it existed two months ago and I actually knew about him mooting making it long ago. I dunno that a sequel is on the table no matter what happens, given that Cameron has four other planned films coming and something like that would only happen with him pushing it forward.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23145
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

I'd seen the OVA years ago, so I was looking forward to Cameron's version.
I was NOT disappointed. To me, there was not a 'wasted shot' in the whole movie. Everything built on each other, setting up multiple guns that were all polished and shot by the end of the movie. Even though I knew what was going to happen, getting there was a delight.

It was especially fun watching because I was with my brother and another friend, in a otherwise empty theater, and we were able to talk during the movie as if we were watching at home. :)
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
wautd
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7570
Joined: 2004-02-11 10:11am
Location: Intensive care

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by wautd »

Never saw the original manga but I was pleasently surprised with the movie. Enjoyed it a lot more than expected
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by mr friendly guy »

I have just found out China is extending Alita's time being broadcast in Chinese cinemas for another 1 month to April 21st. This is great news for those who want a sequel. I am going to go see it again on my birthday to treat myself.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Vendetta »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2019-03-11 11:13am I have just found out China is extending Alita's time being broadcast in Chinese cinemas for another 1 month to April 21st. This is great news for those who want a sequel. I am going to go see it again on my birthday to treat myself.
I wonder how much it's benefiting from people looking around for a bit more Sci-Fi just after Wandering Earth started tailing off.
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Alita (spoilers)

Post by Q99 »

That should probably get it over 400 mil.

Likely still dependent on 'just how happy are the studios with Cameron,' but within reach of sequel realm.
Post Reply