Ferengi vs Hutts

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Q99 » 2017-09-25 07:33pm

Gandalf wrote:
2017-09-24 08:39pm
It would certainly be interesting to similarly see Ferengi trading with the Dominion during season seven, when the war was taking its toll on the Dominion too.
It'd be interesting to see which kinds of Ferengi did it- the desperate, who most non-Dominion types wouldn't trade with. Those who fell for an impressive bargain early on and now want out. Some who were swept along when their old Cardassian partners or Breed changed sides.

User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 14476
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Sydney, Australia

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Gandalf » 2017-09-25 07:53pm

Q99 wrote:
2017-09-25 07:33pm
Gandalf wrote:
2017-09-24 08:39pm
It would certainly be interesting to similarly see Ferengi trading with the Dominion during season seven, when the war was taking its toll on the Dominion too.
It'd be interesting to see which kinds of Ferengi did it- the desperate, who most non-Dominion types wouldn't trade with. Those who fell for an impressive bargain early on and now want out. Some who were swept along when their old Cardassian partners or Breed changed sides.
I like the idea that the Ferengi "government," whatever that might actually be, has no stance while its people are just trading with anyone. Some want the stable and known customers of the Federation, while others see ways for the Ferengi to flourish under Dominion rule. One could argue that the Jem' Hadar could offer all of the security needed for a stable free market to flourish with an Alpha Quadrant that no longer needs to have people working and investing in massive fleets.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3765
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by bilateralrope » 2017-09-25 10:29pm

Prometheus Unbound wrote:
2017-08-30 08:11am
Ferengi also don't seem to do much around drugs / prostitution. They look down on women, sure, but outright sexual slavery?
How much is that due to their ethics ?

How much due to holodecks ruining the profitability of prostitution, especially in Federation space ?

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Q99 » 2017-09-26 04:36pm

Gandalf wrote:
2017-09-25 07:53pm
I like the idea that the Ferengi "government," whatever that might actually be, has no stance while its people are just trading with anyone. Some want the stable and known customers of the Federation, while others see ways for the Ferengi to flourish under Dominion rule. One could argue that the Jem' Hadar could offer all of the security needed for a stable free market to flourish with an Alpha Quadrant that no longer needs to have people working and investing in massive fleets.
There is the Grand Nagus, who does direct the species to an extent.

They might not be overly strict about it and individuals breaking off edicts is fine, but I do think the Nagus can say, "Hey, this would be bad for business for all of us," and advise Ferengi against it.

And the ability to make such proclamations can help protect Ferengi even- "Do something that messes with our interests and you may lose our business."

Though there is a point that they may have kept official neutrality under the idea that *when* the war ending, they assumed both sides would exist and need third party negotiators like themselves.

Prometheus Unbound
Jedi Master
Posts: 1137
Joined: 2007-09-28 06:46am

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2017-09-26 07:54pm

bilateralrope wrote:
2017-09-25 10:29pm
Prometheus Unbound wrote:
2017-08-30 08:11am
Ferengi also don't seem to do much around drugs / prostitution. They look down on women, sure, but outright sexual slavery?
How much is that due to their ethics ?

How much due to holodecks ruining the profitability of prostitution, especially in Federation space ?
Quark pointed out to Sisko that the Ferengi had never practiced it and (in their minds) "ever come close".
NecronLord wrote:
Also, shorten your signature a couple of lines please.

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Q99 » 2017-09-28 02:56pm

Denying the others at least the opportunity to make money, forever, has got to be a cardinal sin.

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27127
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by NecronLord » 2017-09-29 03:35am

Ferengi ethics aren't what Quark says they are. There are two examples of them wanting to sell captives into slavery, in ENT and TNG, Quark himself used forced labour when the Cardassians ruled DS9, and had a longstanding ambition to join...

Image

The Orion Syndicate, who have all the creepy sex slavery you can shake a stick with.

Perhaps he meant that the Ferengi have never enslaved other Ferengi, because they sure as fuck enslave others, and he personally used slaves and wanted to buy into the slave trade. But then, we have no evidence that Hutts have enslaved other Hutts either.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10948
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-09-29 04:52am

NecronLord wrote:
2017-09-29 03:35am
Ferengi ethics aren't what Quark says they are. There are two examples of them wanting to sell captives into slavery, in ENT and TNG, Quark himself used forced labour when the Cardassians ruled DS9, and had a longstanding ambition to join...

Image

The Orion Syndicate, who have all the creepy sex slavery you can shake a stick with.

Perhaps he meant that the Ferengi have never enslaved other Ferengi, because they sure as fuck enslave others, and he personally used slaves and wanted to buy into the slave trade. But then, we have no evidence that Hutts have enslaved other Hutts either.
The Ferengi seem to have a double standard when it comes to slavery, since with the exception of the ENT episode, technically speaking the ferengi aren't ones doing the enslavement it's either the the cardassians or the orion, now to us and most likely the federation it doesn't make any difference.

However from a ferengi point of view they (as far as Quark knows) never enslaved anyone just used people enslaved by other people, while this is one hell of a hypocritical double standard it would fit the ferengi character.

EDIT:seeing as The Orion Syndicate has been known to practice slavery at least far back as 2250s (the orginal TOS pilot spoke of "orion slave women"), most likely as far back as 2150s (aka when NX-01 had encounters with the orion), it would be highly unlikely that Quark wasn't aware of the fact that Orion Syndicate practiced trafficing of sapient beings aka slave trade.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27127
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by NecronLord » 2017-09-29 07:45am

The Ferengi also themselves have an indentured labour system, and of course, regard women as property. To the point that head of household males can sell family members on Indenture.

The Ferengi are Hutts with a marketing advisor, but provide no more freedom.

We don't really see the dark side of the Ferengi enunciated as clearly as it is with the Hutts, though.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Ferengi vs Hutts

Post by Q99 » 2017-10-02 02:13pm

I'm guessing the Orions are big and Quark just would join *another* industry in it, but yea, "we don't technically practice slavery but we work with those who do," is not much moral highground to start with, before getting into the indentured labour system.

Post Reply