Where can I find better anime?

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Q99
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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-15 01:34pm

TheFeniX wrote:It gets harder to be mad about sexism or Japanese bondage and perversion cliches. I get more mad about just having useless characters taking up screentime for cheap emotional gets.

Still, I can't NOT steal this joke: "Please, my penis can only get so erect."



.... that joke's supposed to be funny when you're super into something.



On Sword Art Online, I do hear the Abridged series is more enjoyable.

And Log Horizon is another 'trapped in the game' series without the cringy parts.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-15 01:58pm

Q99 wrote:.... that joke's supposed to be funny when you're super into something.
That's the joke. I was insinuating I was a pervert. I thought I was being very clear about that. If you want more, I've made comments to this effect in the "Gaming Conversations" thread in G&C, but I doubt they are worth the read as, according to my wife, my jokes are rarely funny. Whatever, I laugh at them.

That said, it works on multiple levels as the line was spoken by a character who is known to enjoy Tentacle Rape Hentai.

My jokes may not be funny, but they are fucking relevant.

On Sword Art Online, I do hear the Abridged series is more enjoyable.
Aw man, I love good abridged. Though I have been spoiled by Team Four Star. Damn son, good call. It's on youtube and I haven't taken lunch today yet.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2017-05-15 06:07pm

Q99 wrote:And Log Horizon is another 'trapped in the game' series without the cringy parts.

Without the cringy parts, sure, but also with glacial pacing and an inferior English adaptation.

Personally, I'd suggest Overlord as far as "trapped in a game" series go. There's also Danmachi and Konosuba if you want series that run on RPG rules without the actual "trapped in a game" bullshit, but I don't think those two are on Hulu or Netflix (there's always Crunchyroll, though).
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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby General Zod » 2017-05-15 06:59pm

I'll go ahead and second Overlord. But there's only one season so prepare for disappointment that you won't get more.
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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Vendetta » 2017-05-15 07:25pm

I also hated Overlord.

It has cringy "oh protagonist-kun please feel up my tits" "comedy", and there is absolutely no tension for the first two thirds of the series because protagonist-kun and all his harem of helpers are so OP. Then in order to explain why there is tension now it takes literally an entire episode of exposition on the rules of a made up MMO.

It can fuck off.

Log Horizon can fuck off as well. Mostly because nothing happens in it except in the episode previews tempting you with the promise that something will happen next week, and the one character they try and sell dramatic tension with is a bellend.

"Protagonist-kun is trapped in an MMO but don't worry because he's the ultimate gamer" is a genre which can get in the sea. It is literal death in the description of a series.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-15 08:17pm

Too bad there's no series of 'Yureka' (which is Korean manwha, older, and the protagonists are not trapped in the game at all, but Yureka the AI effectively is).


Hm, and I can't exactly recommend dot Hack either. I liked the first anime, but it only resolves a character's arc and most of the game-related mystery is left for the games and other side products.

Despite the MMORPG genre being rather big, it's hard to find good examples, honestly.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-18 12:28pm

Q99 wrote:Despite the MMORPG genre being rather big, it's hard to find good examples, honestly.
Yea, even Elf Only Inn went off the rails when they jumped into a WoW parody. Then again, still on the fence on if that webcomic was awesomely horrible or horribly awesome.

Anyways, just spitballing as I've seen little in this "genre," but it's likely a side-effect of the anime cliche of massive amounts of exposition. Thing is, while it gets lame at times (recent example, explaining the mechanics behind each Wizard's power in Fairytale) at the least it's relevant to understanding the medium. Or, more specifically the story. But knowing how the game mechanics of some Skill Shot ability works in a fake MMO in a work of fiction seems.... completely worthless.

Also, the elements that make up most modern MMOs seem an even worse translation than most video game mechanics.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-18 02:24pm

I liked Yureka (as mentioned) and Realms Of Ishikaze (a webcomic, fairly low key one with slice-of-life elements and which actually seemed like a fun game unlike some of these [i.e. high level people weren't incredibly rare walking gods who overwhelmed everyone else], and unfortunately offline). There's probably some Japanese Light Novel one I'd like...

Though really, a lot of them are basically fantasy with people knowing what 'stats' are, and the last isn't too important. Nothing wrong with just watching straight fantasy, like Slayers, where the main cast is kinda like the high level players of a MMORPG series.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-18 04:21pm

Yea, "Die in the game" has consequences, but so does dieing in a show like Record of Lodoss war. It's like a "dramatic middle-man" you don't really need, even though I guess the novelty would be there. Plus, I mean. I'm seriously supposed to buy a device you buy and put over your head for hours at a time has the capability to lobotomize you and this somehow snuck by whatever passes for consumer protection laws in Japan? Whatever, I'm nitpicking, but I'd honestly take nearly any premise over that.

I wouldn't mind a less serious story set in an MMO or other game universe though. I'd also enjoy more the comedy of making fun of game mechanics rather than using them as a basis for a dramatic story.

There's an old comic I remember (might have been OotS) where some power gamer's race gave him a reach bonus and he had two perks. One granted him attacks of opportunity any time someone got within melee range. The other let him automatically give ground, putting him once again out of melee range. He was effectively invincible against another melee opponent.

So, his opponent just continues to advance until the character auto-retreats off a cliff.

Anyways, there was some comedy like this even in the first episode of SAO: some guy was RPing as a girl. But I'd be more interested in something like dealing with my Death Knight in WoW being a 7-foot Goatman with hooves who's a rotting flesh-pile that probably doesn't smell great. Or how in SWTOR a "mechanic" is romancing an NPC companion, so you have the whole romance angle, but you've got a character romance a few lines of dialog. Going even further, dealing with my ESO character being a female Nord because I just don't give fucks at this point.

Wakfu is based on an MMO and was (IMHO) pretty solid because it was set in the MMO world but treated it as reality. Aside from some humor mocking fantasy and MMO cliches, such as how they keep getting sidetracked by side-quests and that they feel like filler, it was it's own self-contained series.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Vendetta » 2017-05-18 06:13pm

TheFeniX wrote:Anyways, just spitballing as I've seen little in this "genre," but it's likely a side-effect of the anime cliche of massive amounts of exposition. Thing is, while it gets lame at times (recent example, explaining the mechanics behind each Wizard's power in Fairytale) at the least it's relevant to understanding the medium. Or, more specifically the story. But knowing how the game mechanics of some Skill Shot ability works in a fake MMO in a work of fiction seems.... completely worthless.


That's part of it.

But the other part is that the protagonist of those types of anime is invariably this legendary player of the game who literally everyone has heard of and so in the new world is always super OP. Which combines really badly with the problem that what makes them super gud is the bullshit rules of a made up videogame (and is compounded in SAO by Kirito being the biggest mary sue on this or any other planet, so bad even the author regrets it). Same in all of them though. Momonga in Overlord is an unkillable OP lich, Shirou in Log Horizon is captain strategy man (and the only time you see that it apparently just means "ganks the healers first").

These are not interesting protagonists, they all have the same problem that protagonists like Light and Lelouch do where the thing that's supposed to make them awesomely good and clever is just transparently author's fiat, but it's made worse because the author's fiat is reified within the series.

The entire subgenre can fuck off into space.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-18 06:43pm

TheFeniX wrote:Y
There's an old comic I remember (might have been OotS) where some power gamer's race gave him a reach bonus and he had two perks. One granted him attacks of opportunity any time someone got within melee range. The other let him automatically give ground, putting him once again out of melee range. He was effectively invincible against another melee opponent.

So, his opponent just continues to advance until the character auto-retreats off a cliff.


That was Order of the Stick, yes, the famous Spike Chain build, and he didn't actually automatically retreat, he just didn't pay attention to what was behind him ^^

Anyways, there was some comedy like this even in the first episode of SAO: some guy was RPing as a girl. But I'd be more interested in something like dealing with my Death Knight in WoW being a 7-foot Goatman with hooves who's a rotting flesh-pile that probably doesn't smell great.


That's another thing about these series: It's considered unusual for someone's character to be notably different from them a lot of the time, which is, well, odd from a RL perspective! (Dot Hack Sign did have one major 'male' character turn out to be a girl)

That and there's usually no player race options, which is also odd.

And plenty of people are not familiarized with even non-hidden mechanics, which is super odd!

Wakfu is based on an MMO and was (IMHO) pretty solid because it was set in the MMO world but treated it as reality. Aside from some humor mocking fantasy and MMO cliches, such as how they keep getting sidetracked by side-quests and that they feel like filler, it was it's own self-contained series.


Yea, it was based on the *setting* the game is in, not the concept of playing the game. Anyway, good show.

Ala the difference between Pokemon and Yugioh.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-18 07:24pm

Vendetta wrote:But the other part is that the protagonist of those types of anime is invariably this legendary player of the game who literally everyone has heard of and so in the new world is always super OP. Which combines really badly with the problem that what makes them super gud is the bullshit rules of a made up videogame (and is compounded in SAO by Kirito being the biggest mary sue on this or any other planet, so bad even the author regrets it). Same in all of them though. Momonga in Overlord is an unkillable OP lich,
I can kind of see the appeal. We all want to break out of the mold in a game with millions of people (which is a theme in a lot of fiction, just replace "game" with whatever). I've never been in a raiding guild where I wasn't top shit in some form or another. Like, 4 separate teams to the point where if I wasn't on, there were serious discussions on if they'd even raid. I came in, got my shit done, no hassle.

It IS a cool feeling at times, so I can see why some people enjoy the idea of "Guy just gets shit done and coasts through what other people struggle with." I just couldn't see myself watching a show about it. I mean, straight comedy: fuck yea. But as an action series?

Shirou in Log Horizon is captain strategy man (and the only time you see that it apparently just means "ganks the healers first").
No bullshit, that man actually is a genius comparative to the average gamer. And for PvE related content just replace "KILL THE FUCKING HEALER" with a "KILL ADDS!" macro. If they played that for comedy, instead of drama, I'd laugh fucking hard.

"Best player in game, targets healers: OUR TEAM CAN'T HANDLE METAGAMING OF THAT MAGNITUDE!"

Q99 wrote:That's another thing about these series: It's considered unusual for someone's character to be notably different from them a lot of the time, which is, well, odd from a RL perspective! (Dot Hack Sign did have one major 'male' character turn out to be a girl)
That's dumb and a total waste of the medium. Even if you had to focus on game mechanics, you could easily play into the emerging attitude based on a character spec or any number of differences available in a video game.

For a simple example, playing a tanky melee class gives you kind of a "Come at me, bro" attitude. You've got time on your side in most engagements. While swapping to a rogue class, you either develop the ability to view players/NPCs as specific targets to be handled in "get in, get out" way where timing is everything, or you fail miserably as the class.

I can only assume the "shady" guy would already pick the rogue class and have no chance for personal development. Like I said, a waste.

That and there's usually no player race options, which is also odd.
Honestly, I'd bet money on the speed-racer effect more than anything. Animating a bunch of alien humanoids has to cost more in time and effort than a bunch of anime-faced hoomans.

And plenty of people are not familiarized with even non-hidden mechanics, which is super odd!
While dumb, not surprising though I doubt these people are called out like they should be. One of my gaming buddies, for just one example (he has many), saw a Sylvanas in HotS teleport to her banshees as an escape mechanic (You use the ability again before the CD starts). He was surprised even though he's played easily over 100 games as her.

My comment: "Dude, I don't even fucking play Sylvanas and I know that."

I rag on him, but this shit is actually disturbingly common, especially the more popular the game. Though I doubt their intent is to show that, more of a "increase my power-level" sort of cop-out anime just dies for.

Ala the difference between Pokemon and Yugioh.
Both games for Magic players who failed arithmetic? Sorry, I can't have those mentioned in the same sentence without taking an off-topic cheap-shot. I got a rep to uphold.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-18 08:40pm

TheFeniX wrote:Honestly, I'd bet money on the speed-racer effect more than anything. Animating a bunch of alien humanoids has to cost more in time and effort than a bunch of anime-faced hoomans.


I'm thinking like, elves, orcs, etc. though. Draenei type new species. Anime-faced humans, just with funny ears or different colors.


While dumb, not surprising though I doubt these people are called out like they should be. One of my gaming buddies, for just one example (he has many), saw a Sylvanas in HotS teleport to her banshees as an escape mechanic (You use the ability again before the CD starts). He was surprised even though he's played easily over 100 games as her.

My comment: "Dude, I don't even fucking play Sylvanas and I know that."

I rag on him, but this shit is actually disturbingly common, especially the more popular the game. Though I doubt their intent is to show that, more of a "increase my power-level" sort of cop-out anime just dies for.


The odd player missing out on the odd specific mechanic I can get, but the vast majority of non-newbs should know the crafting system, the magic system (including spells too high level for them), about the major classes and their abilities, and about noteworthy items, and such.

I'm not exactly sure how common that is, but I've seen it a few time.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Vendetta » 2017-05-19 06:12am

TheFeniX wrote:
Vendetta wrote:But the other part is that the protagonist of those types of anime is invariably this legendary player of the game who literally everyone has heard of and so in the new world is always super OP. Which combines really badly with the problem that what makes them super gud is the bullshit rules of a made up videogame (and is compounded in SAO by Kirito being the biggest mary sue on this or any other planet, so bad even the author regrets it). Same in all of them though. Momonga in Overlord is an unkillable OP lich,
I can kind of see the appeal. We all want to break out of the mold in a game with millions of people (which is a theme in a lot of fiction, just replace "game" with whatever). I've never been in a raiding guild where I wasn't top shit in some form or another. Like, 4 separate teams to the point where if I wasn't on, there were serious discussions on if they'd even raid. I came in, got my shit done, no hassle.


There's a difference between "the one committed guy in a guild of casuals" and "literally everyone in the playerbase knows your name and speaks of you in reverent tones" (which is the case in eg. Log Horizon).

You basically don't get to be the latter without being a gobby cunt on the forums as well (eg. Garbad on WoT NA, and even then most EU/RU players wouldn't know the name).

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Bernkastel » 2017-05-19 06:17am

SAO has a scene where Kirito gets attacked by multiple players and is able to just stand there absorbing their attacks, since he has a healing skill that's capable of restoring his health at a rate faster than multiple players can inflict damage. He's also the only one in the game who can dual wield weapons, because that makes Kirito even more uber elite and thus it doesn't matter if it requires the game to be designed stupidly. It's one of a number of reasons why SAO worked well as an abridged series. The source material just has so much in it that can be used for jokes.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-19 01:55pm

Vendetta wrote:There's a difference between "the one committed guy in a guild of casuals" and "literally everyone in the playerbase knows your name and speaks of you in reverent tones" (which is the case in eg. Log Horizon).
Haha, oh wow. Ok, I retract what I said. I didn't pick up on how far you were saying it goes.

Bernkastel wrote:SAO has a scene where Kirito gets attacked by multiple players and is able to just stand there absorbing their attacks, since he has a healing skill that's capable of restoring his health at a rate faster than multiple players can inflict damage.
I see he mains Holy Paladin.

He's also the only one in the game who can dual wield weapons, because that makes Kirito even more uber elite and thus it doesn't matter if it requires the game to be designed stupidly. It's one of a number of reasons why SAO worked well as an abridged series. The source material just has so much in it that can be used for jokes.
I've been meaning to go further than the first episode. Just for posterity sake, I assume you're talking about the one by "Something Witty?" Only one I've found so I'm assuming it is.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-19 06:15pm

I kinda like the idea of MMORPGs having secret skills you need to unlock at high level... but, like, they shouldn't be *unique*.

To mention Yureka again, there's stuff like special magic swords you can only get if you're high level in Mage *and* Fighter. Only two characters are seen having it, but... point is, those Master skills aren't unique, just very rare because there's only a handful of characters to reach level cap in even a single class (interestingly, the game in question is designed so that max is per-cap, so one can multi-class once one has maxed out [though maxing out more skills within the class is also possible]. And one character used game mastery to make an effectively-master-level combo without reaching 100 in any single class). Get Master class and a ton of players will known you even if you aren't very social (the char Basara barely talks to people, but he's also known for solo'ing dungeons when even most Master class people still need parties with), but it's a list of a dozen or so (plus a few do fly under the radar... ones in more subtle classes, like the master level thief duo). It's more like knowing the top pros in an e-sport rather than "X is literally the best player in the game, no question, by far!".

Hmm.. or if a game had, "X has a unique skill because they won a big event and were publicly gifted something species," then I could buy it... with the understanding, again, multiple people would have different ones from different events and with the intent that over time there'd be hundreds of them because there's an event every month...

"Ah ha, I am the only one who can do X because I am *just that good* at the game!" works maybe with reflex-based twitch combos and stuff, not 'can I duel wield?'.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Vendetta » 2017-05-20 02:07am

Oh it's worse than that.

Kirito is the only person who can dual wield because the designer of the game specifically noticed how protagonisty he was and made him special so he could be the hero.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-20 04:14am

Vendetta wrote:Oh it's worse than that.

Kirito is the only person who can dual wield because the designer of the game specifically noticed how protagonisty he was and made him special so he could be the hero.


See, this would work if the game designer was like, his mom....


Personally I feel if you're thinking how you can make someone 'the hero' of your MMORPG, you've probably gone wrong somewhere.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-20 03:53pm

"Hours I have spent. Days I have lost. Social lives I have shunned. Family I have scorned. Bedsores I have endured. Cheetos I have devoured. Mountain Dew I have consumed. And my reward!? MY TRIUMPH!? The fabled hammer is mine to wield. The mystical armor is mine to wear. The elements bend to my command. Holy and Shadow bow to my whim. What have you to show, hero!?"

"A sword..."

"HA! And what pray-tell..."

"in my off-hand."

"WITCHCRAFT!"

"You're my hero, Hero-San!"
"He's to powerful to stop. No other player has ever mastered the ability to HOLD... TWO... OBJECTS!"

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Bernkastel » 2017-05-20 05:05pm

Something witty is indeed the abridged creator.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-20 05:59pm

Sidenote, on Log Horizon, I mainly read the manga, where they've put out way more of a side story,'west win brigade,' in bookstores than they have the main one. There it's more about one guild dealing with their city adapting to being trapped in a game.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-21 07:38pm

You guys are reminding me of an old Shadowrun adventure/fanfiction (concerning an extraction target lost in a Cyberspace fantasy escape dealing with ASIST subversion and time compression, a concept I fudged the rules on). I came up with it when I was about 14 and my sister threw all my old Shadowrum notebooks away. That said, I think it's still more passable as visual fiction than what you guys are talking about.

Ouran Host Academy: non-stop brutal hilarity combined with "Man, I can't wait till I'm old enough to feel ways about stuff." Is this show a genre deconstruction? I know little to nothing about Harem anime/hentai. I do know I like this show for multiple reasons. If the past few animes I watched have treated my hatred of Stupid Anime Face,™ then this show is curing it.

Fairytale is about to get serious again.... ugh. IMO this show is at it's best when it's only mildy serious.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-21 09:00pm

TheFeniX wrote:Ouran Host Academy: non-stop brutal hilarity combined with "Man, I can't wait till I'm old enough to feel ways about stuff." Is this show a genre deconstruction? I know little to nothing about Harem anime/hentai. I do know I like this show for multiple reasons.


It's not a deconstruction, it's just a good instance of the girl-centered version (also most 'harem' anime are non-hentai. Hentai is a whole other thing. Though some of the guy-centered ones do get closer to hentai nowadays and do tend to more ecchi*, traditionally the genre started out surprisingly clean).


Fruits Basket would be another similar instance of a fun one where things are quite clean and with a girl and a number of guys.




*Translation for those unfamiliar. Hentai = flat out porn. Ecchi = pervy stuff like panty shots, partially obscured nudity, and sex references.

I don't know any girl-centered one (that is, one girl, surrounded by guys) that get particularly ecchi/hentai, but I can actually recommend a guy-centered one that does- Monster Musume/Everyday Life with Monster Girls. Based on, aside from any situations that arise, the whole cast having characterization, a fair amount of worldbuilding going into the monster girls thing (in short, they recently became public and started an exchange student program, but the laws were super-rushed and, well, suck, so the rules are changing as things go), the characters act like young adults interested in relationships rather than misunderstanding machines and are capable of apologizing for errors and communicating (there's no 'despite the obvious romantic interest between us for the last X episodes, does she *really* like me?' garbage), and it doesn't act like there's something wrong with having a sex drive. Obviously, only if one *is* ok with the near-hentai side of things, just saying.

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Re: Where can I find better anime?

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-05-31 03:23pm

Q99 wrote:It's not a deconstruction, it's just a good instance of the girl-centered version (also most 'harem' anime are non-hentai. Hentai is a whole other thing. Though some of the guy-centered ones do get closer to hentai nowadays and do tend to more ecchi*, traditionally the genre started out surprisingly clean).
Wrong term, I'm prone to that. More asking if it was a parody, but I'm assuming it's not. I don't know how much I would care for traditional harem anime since the Japanese cannot into awkward boys whereas Haruhi is so goddamn cute.

Kill la Kill must be the 2010's FLCL with a load of sexploitation on top because... wow. I'm sure there's more than a few messages to be taken about how kids need to prepare for real life but also take time to be kids, but also nudity is awesome and something about clothes and how male nipples are funny.

Not gonna lie: besides blortching at some of the weird incest themes, I liked this show. Soundtrack is badass too. Was a motherfucker to find a way to pay money for it. iTunes... ugh.

I need to dig up my FLCL DVDs, wherever the Hell they are.


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