the problem of overbooked flights in the US

[Broomstick]

The doctor did have his license suspended for some time, during which he apparently played professional poker and did well at it. This will lead some to discredit him because of "legal problems" and possible moral issues.

However, he had his license re-instated and is again practicing medicine, which implies he's no longer a problem.

It's also irrelevant because no one of any profession, or lack of profession, deserves to be manhandled and injured in this manner.

But it wouldn't shock me if United attempts to discredit the victim, much as rape victims used to be put on trial after accusing their rapists of a crime. It's a time-honored tactic of bullies.

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... a0166e32a1

The doctor in question is David Dao, Vietnamese-born Kentucky man who was convicted of obtaining drugs by fraud in 2004, but had his license restored in 2015.

Now this has also made the rounds in China on both state news and social media. It was reported he was of chinese descent (he could be, since there are people of Chinese descent in Vietnam and vice versa as the borders between the two countries are pretty porous, and the passenger was alleged to have complained that he was singled out because he was Chinese). Apparently United does decent business in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/worl ... .html?_r=0

The controversy threatened to hurt United’s revenue in China, where the airline began flying in 1986 and has steadily built a loyal customer base. As of last May, United had 96 departures a week to cities in mainland China and Hong Kong.

96 flights a week huh. Well enjoy the boycotts because United breaks guitars people.

[Flagg]

Who gives a shit about allegations of/actual wrongdoing on his part that doesn't involve behavior on an airliner? The hired goons (yet more wonderful rented pigs that make me ashamed of doing such work despite "being on of the good ones") had no way of knowing about alleged history not involving a United flight so all of the character assassination is not just pointless bullshit, it's pointless bullshit that is going to explode in United's face like diarrhea out the ass of a constipated baby given IV prune juice just when the teeny baby buttplug is yanked out.

But if I were to do an advertisement for United:
It would start by showing the poor Doctor being manhandled off the plane, then him standing at a (bulkhead?) repeatedly saying "Kill me... Kill me..." with the 1000-yard stare while some happy sounding corporate bitch cheerfully saying "United! Our passengers would rather take a beating and then beg to be killed before going with another carrier!"

[The Romulan Republic]

The doctor did have his license suspended for some time, during which he apparently played professional poker and did well at it. This will lead some to discredit him because of "legal problems" and possible moral issues.

However, he had his license re-instated and is again practicing medicine, which implies he's no longer a problem.

It's also irrelevant because no one of any profession, or lack of profession, deserves to be manhandled and injured in this manner.

But it wouldn't shock me if United attempts to discredit the victim, much as rape victims used to be put on trial after accusing their rapists of a crime. It's a time-honored tactic of bullies.

Hell, people still pull this crap on sexual assault victims. I see, for example, Alt. Rightist-types making allegations about Trump's accusers, saying they're just framing him for money or whatever.

And character assassination is a favoured tactic of the legal profession, unfortunately.

[mr friendly guy]

4. I can't stress this enough, the airline can DENY BOARDING they can't remove you except if canceling the plane or for security reasons. Which the chicago PD counted as good old fashion arrested for resisting arrest.

But don't take my word for it, take Unites word for it as they are happy To post the rules on their website, to note read that and it says boarding, boarding boarding boarding board. Once you've already boarded the offer has passed and had United's shitty management did this offer at the gate they would have been free and clear in everything they did (Because then you'd be guilty of trying to force you way onto a domestic flight which is a no joke offense) as opposed to the more questionable issue of being forced to give up your seat.

Rule 21 covers when United can kick you off the flight, and none of which counts as flight was overbook. Rule 25 covers overbooking and bumping you off the flight, and like you say, they can stop you from boarding. However on google it appears that (at least according to one site) its still counted as denied boarding even when you are physically on the plane, as long as the plane is still at the gate.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/ ... er-rights/

It seems bullshit because the usual use of the term "having boarded" in airports refer to getting on the plane,not getting on the plane and the plane leaving the gate.

The US government has a site detailing your rights

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

Interesting to note that if the flight was delayed by more than 2 hours, you are entitled to up to 400% the ticket price to a max of $1350.
Checking United's own website flights from O'hare in Chicago to Louisville cost from $221 to $456 for one way tickets. So they could offer up to $884 to the max $1350. Now assuming he purchased a round trip instead of a 1 way ticket he adds another $217 to that. So either way you cut it, 400% of ($221 + $217) hits the maximum of $1350.

So yeah, United was being a cheapskate.

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.travelandleisure.com/airline ... mpensation

Another story with Delta who had a better compensation scheme. Long story short, a family of three who paid $650 per ticket. Flight was delayed so they agreed to give up their seats for $1350 per person (the maximum allowed under US law). Delayed again the next day so they went for $1300 per ticket, got $50 taxi voucher and $15 lunch for each of them. Next day again delay, so they cancelled their vacation and got $1000 per ticket and the refund of $650 per ticket. So they got $3650 per person and each time it was more than what United offered. Granted it was in gift cards, but still. Yeah United was cheap.

[bilateralrope]

the maximum allowed under US law

Why is there a maximum amount of compensation the airline is allowed to offer ?

[Broomstick]

This is confusing, so bear with me.

It's when the rule when the 400% compensation kicks in - the airline is only required to refund 400% of the ticket up to a maximum of $1350, meaning if the ticket is more than $337.50 the airline is only on the hook for $1350 whether the ticket is $337.50 or $521.02 or whatever.

So it's a maximum minimum.

The airline can compensate with a higher number at their discretion, but they have to refund at least 400% up to a certain amount.

I'm not sure if that explanation helps or not.

[bilateralrope]

This is confusing, so bear with me.

It's when the rule when the 400% compensation kicks in - the airline is only required to refund 400% of the ticket up to a maximum of $1350, meaning if the ticket is more than $337.50 the airline is only on the hook for $1350 whether the ticket is $337.50 or $521.02 or whatever.

So it's a maximum minimum.

The airline can compensate with a higher number at their discretion, but they have to refund at least 400% up to a certain amount.

I'm not sure if that explanation helps or not.

That makes sense.

[LaCroix]

Come to think of it, wouldn't it have been cheaper for United to send their crew wherever with another carrier? I mean, they offered 800 per seat, they could have booked business class for their crew on any other carrier for less.

[General Zod]

So it looks like United managed to piss off a guy that actually has the resources to sue their ass.

http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus ... story.html

[houser2112]

I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?

[Gandalf]

I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?

They've been doing it for decades, so I assume it's all worth it.

[Broomstick]

There are enough people willing to accept compensation in return for a (usually) short delay in their travel to make it work out the vast majority of the time. Keep in mind, getting bumped at a major hub like O'Hare might mean you leave 2 or 3 hours later than originally planned, so maybe you get to your hotel at 7 pm at night instead of 5 pm. A lot of travel arrangements can handle that. So usually there isn't this sort of problem

If it wasn't cost-effective for the airlines they wouldn't do it.

[Zwinmar]

What did you expect, seriously. You have to deal with these asshats from the moment you hit 'security.'

[Ralin]

I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?

Ballpark, they only have to overbook something like two to four seats whose passengers don't show for whatever reason to make up for every one overbooked seat they have to pay someone off for. Most people who are sold tickets to an overbooked flight don't show up to press the issue, and the people who agree to be bumped are likely the ones who don't have multiple connecting flights or something like that, meaning that the non-bumped passengers are more likely than not more valuable (more expensive fares) than the people who agree to take the money/credit.

So yeah, overall it works out to extra money for the airline in exchange for selling something they don't end up having to provide.

[General Zod]

I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?

Ballpark, they only have to overbook something like two to four seats whose passengers don't show for whatever reason to make up for every one overbooked seat they have to pay someone off for. Most people who are sold tickets to an overbooked flight don't show up to press the issue, and the people who agree to be bumped are likely the ones who don't have multiple connecting flights or something like that, meaning that the non-bumped passengers are more likely than not more valuable (more expensive fares) than the people who agree to take the money/credit.

So yeah, overall it works out to extra money for the airline in exchange for selling something they don't end up having to provide.

I've taken a bump before in exchange for a voucher and getting put on a flight that left just a few hours later because hey, free flights. Granted, this was on Southwest.

[Dominus Atheos]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... a0166e32a1

The doctor in question is David Dao, Vietnamese-born Kentucky man who was convicted of obtaining drugs by fraud in 2004, but had his license restored in 2015.

Now this has also made the rounds in China on both state news and social media. It was reported he was of chinese descent (he could be, since there are people of Chinese descent in Vietnam and vice versa as the borders between the two countries are pretty porous, and the passenger was alleged to have complained that he was singled out because he was Chinese). Apparently United does decent business in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/worl ... .html?_r=0

The controversy threatened to hurt United’s revenue in China, where the airline began flying in 1986 and has steadily built a loyal customer base. As of last May, United had 96 departures a week to cities in mainland China and Hong Kong.

96 flights a week huh. Well enjoy the boycotts because United breaks guitars people.

If Chinese people were unhappy then, they're going to be really unhappy if the following is confirmed:

There is a Dr. David Dao with the legal history as described, which is Dr. David Anh Duy Dao, as reported by the Independent. The publication claims that the passenger on the United flight may have actually been Dr. David Thanh Duc Dao, an unrelated person. Confusion still seems to exist about Dr. Dao, as reported by TMZ.

http://www.inquisitr.com/4136331/david- ... son-years/

Since all Asian people look the same, it was an easy mistake for the western media to make.

[Broomstick]

Or, you know, the names ARE similar and they didn't double check that they had the correct David Dao.

[Flagg]

This is confusing, so bear with me.

It's when the rule when the 400% compensation kicks in - the airline is only required to refund 400% of the ticket up to a maximum of $1350, meaning if the ticket is more than $337.50 the airline is only on the hook for $1350 whether the ticket is $337.50 or $521.02 or whatever.

So it's a maximum minimum.

The airline can compensate with a higher number at their discretion, but they have to refund at least 400% up to a certain amount.

I'm not sure if that explanation helps or not.

That makes sense.

Not really. What if the ticket cost $1500?

[Flagg]

There are enough people willing to accept compensation in return for a (usually) short delay in their travel to make it work out the vast majority of the time. Keep in mind, getting bumped at a major hub like O'Hare might mean you leave 2 or 3 hours later than originally planned, so maybe you get to your hotel at 7 pm at night instead of 5 pm. A lot of travel arrangements can handle that. So usually there isn't this sort of problem

If it wasn't cost-effective for the airlines they wouldn't do it.

What if the overbooked flight you get "bumped" (aka thrown out the door with the cabin crew giving you the finger with both hands) from is a connecting flight? Are you just supposed to take however much they will pay you and hope that buying a ticket for the next connecting flight is the same price as it was before the greed of the shittiest service industry on Earth caused you to miss the first one?

[Flagg]

Or, you know, the names ARE similar and they didn't double check that they had the correct David Dao.

Then is was yet another case of the media shitting the bed.

[Broomstick]

There are enough people willing to accept compensation in return for a (usually) short delay in their travel to make it work out the vast majority of the time. Keep in mind, getting bumped at a major hub like O'Hare might mean you leave 2 or 3 hours later than originally planned, so maybe you get to your hotel at 7 pm at night instead of 5 pm. A lot of travel arrangements can handle that. So usually there isn't this sort of problem

If it wasn't cost-effective for the airlines they wouldn't do it.

What if the overbooked flight you get "bumped" (aka thrown out the door with the cabin crew giving you the finger with both hands) from is a connecting flight? Are you just supposed to take however much they will pay you and hope that buying a ticket for the next connecting flight is the same price as it was before the greed of the shittiest service industry on Earth caused you to miss the first one?

People needing connecting flights are a lot less likely to volunteer than those not needing connecting flight. I'm talking about volunteers, not those involuntarily put off flights.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah. The reason this story is news isn't because (GASP) an airline needed to get a few passengers off of a plane.

It's because instead of doing the normal thing: "Is there anyone willing to get off the plane for $800? Do I have anyone willing to get off the plane for $825? Do I hear someone willing to take $850? SOLD, to the little guy who's in no hurry to see his in-laws and just realized that taking $850 for a four-hour delay is the best deal he's gotten all month!"

...

Instead of doing that, they picked people at random and then had security guards go all Brute Squad on the guy who, having been randomly 'volunteered,' didn't consent to be removed from the plane. The issue here isn't that overbooked flights offend our sense of tidiness, even if they do. It's that having airport security turn into the Brute Squad is undesirable.

[Ralin]

It wasn't airport security. They called in actual law enforcement.