Never met a Nirvana fan I take itSimon_Jester wrote: I don't feel like someone can be a real fan of a work of art, while entirely missing the point of that work of art,
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Moderator: Vympel
Never met a Nirvana fan I take itSimon_Jester wrote: I don't feel like someone can be a real fan of a work of art, while entirely missing the point of that work of art,
The very message of the show can be different at times. There is nothing really constant, even the promise is the brightness of tomorrow, how technology will make life better, and the spirit of exploration that are important themes of the franchise aren't always there, there was an entire movie preaching how the past is superior and technology is bad.Simon_Jester wrote:Being offended, ranting angrily as I said, about Starfleet's "failure" to be a military-oriented service* is in large part missing the entire point and message of Star Trek.
Fans of something have different interpretations of things, even different from author intent, thats part of art.Simon_Jester wrote:I don't feel like someone can be a real fan of a work of art, while entirely missing the point of that work of art
Your original statement was on warp drive knowledge though. If you can make a warp drive that's better than your rivals you can be considered to have a better knowledge even if it's not implemented on a wide spread level.NecronLord wrote: Also the Ent-E is a top-class ship, one of only a dozen, while D'Deridexes are standard issue ships seen everywhere. The apposite comparison for a D'Deridex is the Warp 7 Miranda class.
The fleets might only go along at warp 7 :SCrazedwraith wrote:Your original statement was on warp drive knowledge though. If you can make a warp drive that's better than your rivals you can be considered to have a better knowledge even if it's not implemented on a wide spread level.NecronLord wrote: Also the Ent-E is a top-class ship, one of only a dozen, while D'Deridexes are standard issue ships seen everywhere. The apposite comparison for a D'Deridex is the Warp 7 Miranda class.
(Though the Romulans might have a similar level of knowledge of a theoretical level)
Also when was the Miranda limited to Warp 7? They seem to keep up with galaxy and other advanced designs in fleet actions.
Tech manuals list the crusing speed of the D'deridex as Warp 9, and of the Miranda as Warp 7 with a push capacity of warp 9, as I recall.Crazedwraith wrote:Your original statement was on warp drive knowledge though. If you can make a warp drive that's better than your rivals you can be considered to have a better knowledge even if it's not implemented on a wide spread level.NecronLord wrote: Also the Ent-E is a top-class ship, one of only a dozen, while D'Deridexes are standard issue ships seen everywhere. The apposite comparison for a D'Deridex is the Warp 7 Miranda class.
(Though the Romulans might have a similar level of knowledge of a theoretical level)
Also when was the Miranda limited to Warp 7? They seem to keep up with galaxy and other advanced designs in fleet actions.
I don't? As I said, there are design tradeoffs being made, obviously. I'm saying that the D'deridex being slower doesn't necessarily mean 'Federation Warp Technology' as a blanket category, is better.Prometheus Unbound wrote:I don't see why it's difficult for anyone to picture a D'Derridex being a little slower than a Galaxy class (but still within ... I mean they were only *minutes* behind, it's like warp 9.8 and warp 9.79 or something) - the thing is freaking *huge*. Trying to generate a warp field / subspace field must be really energy intensive - and moving something that mass will take more energy.
It's not like they're limited to warp 6 - they *can* overtake a Galaxy class ship - it just damages their engines.
I would expect their smaller ships to manage to keep up easier as they don't have to generate a few cubic kilometres of subspace stuff.
If not explicit then heavily implied. There in All Good things and in the epiose with rhe Yamato.NecronLord wrote:I think it was explicit in Farpoint that the ship was new?
Sorry I wasn't debating you I was just going off on my own tangent. Wasn't directed specifically at you - but I agree with you pretty much.NecronLord wrote:I don't? As I said, there are design tradeoffs being made, obviously. I'm saying that the D'deridex being slower doesn't necessarily mean 'Federation Warp Technology' as a blanket category, is better.Prometheus Unbound wrote:I don't see why it's difficult for anyone to picture a D'Derridex being a little slower than a Galaxy class (but still within ... I mean they were only *minutes* behind, it's like warp 9.8 and warp 9.79 or something) - the thing is freaking *huge*. Trying to generate a warp field / subspace field must be really energy intensive - and moving something that mass will take more energy.
It's not like they're limited to warp 6 - they *can* overtake a Galaxy class ship - it just damages their engines.
I would expect their smaller ships to manage to keep up easier as they don't have to generate a few cubic kilometres of subspace stuff.
The engines had not been tested at those speeds I think (9.NecronLord wrote:I think it was explicit in Farpoint that the ship was new?
Yes, we see this in Tinman: the Enterprise picks up the Romulans moving at high speed and cloaked because the claok is compromised, either by the energy required for the speed, or the balancing of the cloak's effects (Face of the Enemy).Shroom Man 777 wrote:Like... does increased speed compromise stealth (cloak) in Warp?
Face of the Enemy suggests so: the Romulans just sat there while the Enterprise was using sensors to "pick through" the debris of the trading vessel.Shroom Man 777 wrote:On the other hand, does the presence of cloak capability make speed less of a dealmaker/breaker because aside from out-running targets and pursuers, there's the option of just cloaking away?
Does maintaining cloak while moving require enough energy that it would affect how much energy goes to the drive and thus how fast the vessel can go?
They might, we weren't really shown that much of the Romulan military. And the Federation border specifically, is a "no fly zone" by treaty. Doubtless the Romulans have listening posts and warships close enough to respond, but it's a stale conflict for the most part.Shroom Man 777 wrote:I wonder if the Romulans have vessels that don't have cloaks and are optimized for fast patrols.
...
And perhaps the size and scope of Romulan territory... its degree of fortification, the distribution of forward operating bases, etc. might determine how they determine how fast their ships can go.
If its borders with the Federation isn't that expansive, then slower cloaky ambush vessels might be better. Whereas if the other side of Romulan space, Romulan Siberia, faces... less formidable opponents, if it is some vast frontier, then a not-so-cloaky but more-speedy long-ranged MiG-25/31 kind of patrol vessel might be deployed there.
Quite. Heck, the Balance of Terror cloak was only *semi* effective! Powerful but not flawless.we know that romulans didn't really use cloaks until the 2150s at earliest but more likely not before 2260s (the ENT apperence of a cloak capable Romulan ship have serious problems with earlier depictions of what romulan cloaks are capable due to being invisible to even 32nd century tech)