Game of Thrones Season 6 [Discussion of most-recently aired episodes]

[Alferd Packer]

That's what I was thinking: some combination of Euron and storms at sea like the Protestant Wind or Kamikaze to put a dent in Danerys' fleet. Otherwise her forces, combined with the Reach, Dorne and whatever might be left of the Storm Lands will just steam roll through the Lannisters, who are fresh out of allies.

I wonder if steamrolling is going to be the point. Cersei betrayed and killed her way to get what she really wanted, the Iron Throne, but insodoing, left herself bereft of allies. Along comes Dany, who wants the same thing, but was more diplomatic and opportunistic in forging alliances, and she roflstomps the Lannisters and extinguishes their house in a couple episodes. Cersei, for all her work, is a speedbump as Dany reclaims the Iron Throne and heads north to deal with the army of the dead.

[ArmorPierce]

That's what I was thinking: some combination of Euron and storms at sea like the Protestant Wind or Kamikaze to put a dent in Danerys' fleet. Otherwise her forces, combined with the Reach, Dorne and whatever might be left of the Storm Lands will just steam roll through the Lannisters, who are fresh out of allies.

I wonder if steamrolling is going to be the point. Cersei betrayed and killed her way to get what she really wanted, the Iron Throne, but insodoing, left herself bereft of allies. Along comes Dany, who wants the same thing, but was more diplomatic and opportunistic in forging alliances, and she roflstomps the Lannisters and extinguishes their house in a couple episodes. Cersei, for all her work, is a speedbump as Dany reclaims the Iron Throne and heads north to deal with the army of the dead.

I agree with this.

George R.R. Martin does not like the theme that all the good guys live and they live happily ever after. He does however believe that war exacerbates problems rather than acts as a solution. This would match the theme of the books... although the good guys don't always live, the chaos caused by war eventually catches up to the perpetrators.

[NecronLord]

I wonder if steamrolling is going to be the point. Cersei betrayed and killed her way to get what she really wanted, the Iron Throne, but insodoing, left herself bereft of allies. Along comes Dany, who wants the same thing, but was more diplomatic and opportunistic in forging alliances, and she roflstomps the Lannisters and extinguishes their house in a couple episodes. Cersei, for all her work, is a speedbump as Dany reclaims the Iron Throne and heads north to deal with the army of the dead.

That's not how you spell "Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock, Shield of Lannisport, Warden of the West and Hand of the Queen."

[Guardsman Bass]

For a time, at least. I question whether Jon, Tyrion, or Daenerys will survive the series.

[Elfdart]

That's not how you spell "Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock, Shield of Lannisport, Warden of the West and Hand of the Queen."

That depends on whether he's really a Lannister or another Targaryen bastard. I re-watched some of the scenes with Tyrion and Tywin and the vibe I get is that Tywin's hostility to Tyrion might not just be because he "killed" his mother during birth, or that he's a dwarf or that he's a drunk and a skirt-chaser.

[Ralin]

That depends on whether he's really a Lannister or another Targaryen bastard. I re-watched some of the scenes with Tyrion and Tywin and the vibe I get is that Tywin's hostility to Tyrion might not just be because he "killed" his mother during birth, or that he's a dwarf or that he's a drunk and a skirt-chaser.

Doubtful. Without getting into book stuff, it's very unlikely that Tywin wouldn't have killed Tyrion if he believed he was a bastard.

Besides, that would validate Tywin's whole thing about Tyrion not being his son. No way Tywin gets off that easy.

[The Vortex Empire]

For a time, at least. I question whether Jon, Tyrion, or Daenerys will survive the series.

Yeah, no way in hell are they making it out alive. I figure they ride the dragons deep into the heart of winter to destroy the Others once and for all, and succeed, but all die in the process.

[Guardsman Bass]

For a time, at least. I question whether Jon, Tyrion, or Daenerys will survive the series.

Yeah, no way in hell are they making it out alive. I figure they ride the dragons deep into the heart of winter to destroy the Others once and for all, and succeed, but all die in the process.

In the books at least, I think that will be the case. Not sure how it will go down in the show, but I wouldn't be surprised if their sacrifice is tied into whatever Bran does to bring back the dawn, set the seasons to right, and destroy the Others/Walkers.

Speaking of which, I think Bran is going to survive. He's the new Bran the Builder.

[Simon_Jester]

That depends on whether he's really a Lannister or another Targaryen bastard. I re-watched some of the scenes with Tyrion and Tywin and the vibe I get is that Tywin's hostility to Tyrion might not just be because he "killed" his mother during birth, or that he's a dwarf or that he's a drunk and a skirt-chaser.

Doubtful. Without getting into book stuff, it's very unlikely that Tywin wouldn't have killed Tyrion if he believed he was a bastard.

If he was a royal bastard, Tywin might have feared to do so prior to Robert's Rebellion. After the rebellion... dunno.

Besides, that would validate Tywin's whole thing about Tyrion not being his son. No way Tywin gets off that easy.

Now that I agree with.

[The Vortex Empire]

For a time, at least. I question whether Jon, Tyrion, or Daenerys will survive the series.

Yeah, no way in hell are they making it out alive. I figure they ride the dragons deep into the heart of winter to destroy the Others once and for all, and succeed, but all die in the process.

In the books at least, I think that will be the case. Not sure how it will go down in the show, but I wouldn't be surprised if their sacrifice is tied into whatever Bran does to bring back the dawn, set the seasons to right, and destroy the Others/Walkers.

Speaking of which, I think Bran is going to survive. He's the new Bran the Builder.

Yeah, Bran definitely makes it out alive, Sam Tarly, Sansa, and Davos too, most likely.

[Ralin]

If he was a royal bastard, Tywin might have feared to do so prior to Robert's Rebellion.

I don't think that's very likely. Bastards lives aren't worth much, especially since the king never acknowledged raping/fucking the Warden of the West's wife. And even if that was a factor it would beyond easy for Tywin to kill a baby and say he didn't survive childbirth. This is right in the heart of Casterly Rock, after all.

[Simon_Jester]

I was more thinking in terms of Aerys being, well... insane, and it being totally in character for him to demand that Tywin keep baby Tyrion alive as a way of screwing him over. Since this is essentially the same thing Aerys did by recruiting Jaime into the Kingsguard.

[Pelranius]

I always thought that if Aerys did have kids with Joanna, it'd be Jaime and Cersei.

Tywin later decides to try again with Joanna for an actual kid of his own, and he get- Tyrion. Now that would provide a shit load of self loathing for Tywin to project onto Tyrion.

[Esquire]

The Targaryens have no monopoly on madness; it's completely possible for both them and the Lannisters to produce incestuous nutters. I'm unaware of any evidence that something else happened, though I admit it's been a while since I've been over the canon.

[ArmorPierce]

I am inclined to say that there is 0 chance of Tyrion being another Targaryen bastard.

The author wouldn't continuously repeat that same theme.

[FaxModem1]

Tyrion is supposed to be a third of Tywin, like all of the Lannister children. Tyrion got Tywin's intelligence, Jaime got Tywin's strength and capability for battle, and Cersei got Tywin's ruthlessness. Him being a Targaryen bastard totally underwrites that theme.

[Crazedwraith]

I am inclined to say that there is 0 chance of Tyrion being another Targaryen bastard.

The author wouldn't continuously repeat that same theme.

Minor nitpick: The Targaryens practice polygamy along with incest. So there's a chance Jon is a true born Targaryen not a bastard at all unless the reveal discounts this somehow.

The leading theory I've seen is that Joanna was raped by Aerys so the scenarios could be very different if Lyanna actually went with Rhaegar willingly.

But it would wreck the 'Tyrion is Tywin's true son.' Which would be sad.

[Simon_Jester]

Tyrion is supposed to be a third of Tywin, like all of the Lannister children. Tyrion got Tywin's intelligence, Jaime got Tywin's strength and capability for battle, and Cersei got Tywin's ruthlessness. Him being a Targaryen bastard totally underwrites that theme.

I like that thematically, but it seems a bit unfair.

After all, Tyrion and Jaime are both fairly ruthless when it serves their goals. And Tyrion has about as much fighting strength as one can possibly expect from a dwarf- he leads troops effectively, and at least in the books he actually managed to (through somewhat comic-awkward strings of events) defeat a couple of opponents personally in battle.

Jaime's not very smart but at least exhibits some minimal level of brains...

But Cersei pretty clearly knows nothing of war, has negligible personal strength, and is by a large margin the least intelligent of the Lannister siblings. All she got is the ruthlessness.

[ArmorPierce]

I am inclined to say that there is 0 chance of Tyrion being another Targaryen bastard.

The author wouldn't continuously repeat that same theme.

Minor nitpick: The Targaryens practice polygamy along with incest. So there's a chance Jon is a true born Targaryen not a bastard at all unless the reveal discounts this somehow.

The leading theory I've seen is that Joanna was raped by Aerys so the scenarios could be very different if Lyanna actually went with Rhaegar willingly.

But it would wreck the 'Tyrion is Tywin's true son.' Which would be sad.

I don't think it really matters whether he is technically a bastard or not at this point. He has afterall been declared kind of the north... It mattered for his story development but I don't view the joining being technically a bastard are not as mattering... either way the result is effectively the same.

The theory that Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly is hogwash. It is based on nothing but speculation and I am just not seeing it. Do you think Lyanna would allow a war to transpire that led to the deaths of thousands of men including her father and brother's executions? That would make her a total bitch and a reprehensible character.

0 evidence for the theory that Joanna was raped by Tywin except for speculation. It literally would come out of no where... I will repeat, I don't think GRRM would continuously repeat the same theme.

Mark my words. Both 'theories' are hogwash.

[Solauren]

Lyanna and Rhaegar keeping their elopement secret after the death of her father and brother makes sense.

After all, the Mad King ordered the entire stark family put down. They probably had no way of knowing if that would include Lyanna, married to Rhaegar or not.

However, the second another heir to the throne is born, even the Mad King wouldn't go that far.

Also, Lyanna had to have known that Robert was going to blow his top over everything. Again, waiting until she gave birth to another heir would protect her. It's possible if Robert found out he'd been slighted, he'd have kept the war on anyway just to steal her back!

[Simon_Jester]

The theory that Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly is hogwash. It is based on nothing but speculation and I am just not seeing it. Do you think Lyanna would allow a war to transpire that led to the deaths of thousands of men including her father and brother's executions? That would make her a total bitch and a reprehensible character.

While Lyanna might not have foreseen that a war would result, or that her father and brother would be tortured to death by Aerys for trying to get her back...

If she went with Rhaegar willingly at first, she could have done a lot to reduce the damage by, say, writing letters. Robert would go ape, but Robert would go ape anyway.

[Crazedwraith]

Mark my words. Both 'theories' are hogwash.

While I agree it's unlikely Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard. I think it more likely that if R+L=J is true that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped or raped. It would seriously cheapen the twist if Robert was basically right about Rheagar except that his rapings got Lyanna pregnant.

Literally everyone who knew Rheagar in the books other than Robert presents a very different picture of him. And the books have Lyanna be disillusioned with marrying Robert as well.

There's no indication she knew what would happen in the war afterwards. The deaths of her father and brother especially wouldn't have been predictable. (Again, unless the show differed greatly from the books here)

[ArmorPierce]

Mark my words. Both 'theories' are hogwash.

While I agree it's unlikely Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard. I think it more likely that if R+L=J is true that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped or raped. It would seriously cheapen the twist if Robert was basically right about Rheagar except that his rapings got Lyanna pregnant.

Literally everyone who knew Rheagar in the books other than Robert presents a very different picture of him. And the books have Lyanna be disillusioned with marrying Robert as well.

There's no indication she knew what would happen in the war afterwards. The deaths of her father and brother especially wouldn't have been predictable. (Again, unless the show differed greatly from the books here)

It can be contended that it would cheapen the plot twist but it also can be contended that her willingly running off cheapens the war,the lives of her family, and thousands of others who died trying to save her. It would make her a horrible person... and the entire events that transpired could have been avoided.

[FaxModem1]

Tyrion is supposed to be a third of Tywin, like all of the Lannister children. Tyrion got Tywin's intelligence, Jaime got Tywin's strength and capability for battle, and Cersei got Tywin's ruthlessness. Him being a Targaryen bastard totally underwrites that theme.

I like that thematically, but it seems a bit unfair.

After all, Tyrion and Jaime are both fairly ruthless when it serves their goals. And Tyrion has about as much fighting strength as one can possibly expect from a dwarf- he leads troops effectively, and at least in the books he actually managed to (through somewhat comic-awkward strings of events) defeat a couple of opponents personally in battle.

Jaime's not very smart but at least exhibits some minimal level of brains...

But Cersei pretty clearly knows nothing of war, has negligible personal strength, and is by a large margin the least intelligent of the Lannister siblings. All she got is the ruthlessness.

Cersei does have some intelligence, she's not an utter idiot. But as Tywin pointed out to her, her main problem is not that she's a woman, it's that she's not as clever as she thinks she is. Which is how she plotted and schemed until she herself was in the dungeons of the Sept.

[Crazedwraith]

Mark my words. Both 'theories' are hogwash.

While I agree it's unlikely Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard. I think it more likely that if R+L=J is true that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped or raped. It would seriously cheapen the twist if Robert was basically right about Rheagar except that his rapings got Lyanna pregnant.

Literally everyone who knew Rheagar in the books other than Robert presents a very different picture of him. And the books have Lyanna be disillusioned with marrying Robert as well.

There's no indication she knew what would happen in the war afterwards. The deaths of her father and brother especially wouldn't have been predictable. (Again, unless the show differed greatly from the books here)

It can be contended that it would cheapen the plot twist but it also can be contended that her willingly running off cheapens the war,the lives of her family, and thousands of others who died trying to save her. It would make her a horrible person... and the entire events that transpired could have been avoided.

You keep saying that as if it logically follows. But it does not. There's no reason to hold Lyanna responsible for the rebellion, she probably didn't expect it to start. Even knowing Robert. And even if it ruins the character for you. It's not like ASoIaF doesn't have plenty of other characters doing things with massive consequences without thinking.

There's likely even more to the situation than we know. In flashback Rheagar indicates he thinks his first son is the Prince that was Promised. It seems likely that this actually Jon, his son by Lyanna. (or Dany) So this and other stories indicate a certain amount of 'because prophecy says so' that Lyanna may or may not have bought into.

Sorry for book stuff but aside from S1+2 of GoT its all I've got.