Mange wrote:I made an analogy with Sweden and the Åland Islands earlier. Despite a referendum which showed that 95.5 percent of the Åland voters wanted to return to Sweden, the League of Nations decided against it but said that the language and customs of the islands had to be respected. Yes, that's almost a hundred years ago in a very different world, but it's a compromise and any referendum should be held in accordance with international standards, not at the barrel of a gun.
*sigh* Wrong on so many levels for everyone knowing the region and interactions there. In short:
A) This wasn't contest between islands being Swedish and Finnish, it was between belonging to Sweden and being given very wide autonomy in Finland, including demilitarization, being exempt from most obligations to the state, and full language and cultural rights.
Do you seriously compare that to south-east Ukraine that was denied any rights and ukrainised by all measures short of actual force? And when they finally gained some bit of recognition when Yanukovych made Russian official language in small part of the country, the issue was one of triggers of Maidan and illegal coup?
I am strangely sure if eastern half of Ukraine had such deal since 90s there would be no local support for any uprising today whatsoever.
B) Why cherrypick diplomatic solution that ended in crisis and a lot of protests? Just because it supports your position? How about picking one that made everyone happy?
Say, Denmark-German border delimitation of 1919, performed by neutral commission on ethnic and geographical basis. The one that despite being slightly biased to Danish side was labelled as so fair that even aggressive Nazi regime that protested almost
all Versailles borders didn't raise fuss against that one?
If identical delimitation was made in any point of last 25 years, except maybe during worst Yeltsin years, about 40% of Ukraine would go to Russ-- Oh, wait, this clearly makes it illegal, land grab, and wrong to use, eh?
C) You know that Åland Islands were part of Finland since at least 1284? Not since 1955? If you think maps drawn by drunk Communist leaders are so holy and immutable, how about picketing German embassy to make East Germany independent again, if listening to population of Crimea was so wrong? After all, Austria despite being mirror Bavaria was recognized as not-Germany, why not DDR too?
I agree that the crisis should have been solved diplomatically, but when one side declares half of its citizens to be second grade right-less illegals and it will never budge even one millimetre from this position, maybe, just maybe they bear a lot of fault for diplomacy failing, too.
Stas Bush wrote:Any large enough former Soviet republic can claim to be successor to the USSR, like... Ukraine. They could have used it to their benefit, but who am I kidding.
That would be funny to see, but no, Ukraine already claimed to be successor of Ukrainian SSR. That got them a lot of perks, including UN seat, other ex-Soviet states had to work for so they already benefited.
Thanas wrote:Hey man, the seperatists on the crimea and in the east are openly talking about defending their country from the gays and the jews of Europe.....
*sigh* There is "slight" difference between religion based hatred and being neonazi, unless you postulate he is neonazi too:
"
Gays contradict nature, commit mortal sin, and will burn in hell" - that was said by main military chaplain of Bundeswehr, a high ranking official, not just a random person that was in right place in right time. I bet if he was Russian he would be already paraded all over western press, eh?
I said on this board hundreds of times any religiously based inequalities are unjust and should go die in fire, sadly, it looks like sentiments like mine are still minority and if something is criminalized and threatened with prison, it's offending "religious feelings". No, not in Russia, all over EU. Until that changes and religious based hate speech is made criminal offence like it should be, instead of tolerated and hush-hushed on highest levels, sorry, pointing accusing finger on one state is pure hypocrisy.
Biased reporting? How about calling people bedecked in SS and neonazi insignia from combat boots to shaven head in Kiev "just misunderstood peaceful Maidan activists"? Not that they can't be found on both sides, I already said the conflict drawn a lot of random, often despicable people there, but so far, press on both sides mirrors each other claiming neonazis are only on the other one.