He was and that is probably why RSR is at least not completely "USA MILWANK 101".thejester wrote:Cardinal of the Kremlin was easily his best book. Larry Bond was essentially a co-author of RSR, IIRC.
Ryanverse
Moderator: Edi
Re: Ryanverse
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
- Eternal_Freedom
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Re: Ryanverse
Yeah that was most refreshing. The US actually has bad shit happen to it, rather than that bullshit desert war in Executive Orders. One brigade of National Guard versus two heavy Divisions? Obviously the US easily wins! [/groan]
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Re: Ryanverse
Don't fuck with the National Guard, man. They'll ruin your shit.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Re: Ryanverse
That's because Arabs can't fight wars and Russian doctrine plays right into Murrican hands!Eternal_Freedom wrote:Yeah that was most refreshing. The US actually has bad shit happen to it, rather than that bullshit desert war in Executive Orders. One brigade of National Guard versus two heavy Divisions? Obviously the US easily wins! [/groan]
Although with Executive Orders, the greatest thing was the entire political ploy by whatshisname to create the greater islamic republic.
Step 1: Attack the US with bioweapons that do not touch their military-industrial complex at all
Step 2: Invade neighbors
Step 3: Pray really hard the US won't retaliate with WMDs, or that their untouched military can't stop you from achieving Step 2.
That's saying nothing of the fact that an attempt to create a united islamic republic from Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia is insane in the first place and would never work, and thus whatshisname would get couped out of power approximately five minutes after he pushed his plan...Clancy even blindly stumbles into some of the problems, but ignores or dimisses them
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
- Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ryanverse
I can think of one good thing to say about Tom Clancy. He's not Dale Brown.
Re: Ryanverse
all his books should be preserved forever in the 'ruined literature with covers featuring fighter planes and stylised maps' exhibit
saying one of his books is 'better' or 'less bad' than another is like saying you'd rather have your finger cut off than your dick
saying one of his books is 'better' or 'less bad' than another is like saying you'd rather have your finger cut off than your dick
- Sidewinder
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Re: Ryanverse
This IS al-Qaeda and the Taliban's plan.PeZook wrote:Although with Executive Orders, the greatest thing was the entire political ploy by whatshisname to create the greater islamic republic.
Step 1: Attack the US with bioweapons that do not touch their military-industrial complex at all
Step 2: Invade neighbors
Step 3: Pray really hard the US won't retaliate with WMDs, or that their untouched military can't stop you from achieving Step 2.
Step 1: Launch an attack that devastates the US. Unfortunately for al-Qaeda, the group lacks the ability to manufacture sufficiently lethal bio-weapons. The September 11 attacks are arguably a substitute for this attack.
Step 2: From Afghanistan, infiltrate Pakistan- infiltrate becomes "invade" once the Pakistani government throws its lot with the US. From Pakistan, inflitrate/invade Kashmir- which is part of India!
Step 3: Bin Laden actually WANTED the US to retaliate with WMDs. He wanted to unite the Muslim world against a common enemy; and to start a world war in which all peoples must convert to Islam, or die. What he got was a drone war; tough luck.
In case you haven't noticed, al-Qaeda ACTUALLY TRIED to create a United Islamic Republic from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and nations such as Afghanistan, Pakistan...That's saying nothing of the fact that an attempt to create a united islamic republic from Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia is insane in the first place and would never work, and thus whatshisname would get couped out of power approximately five minutes after he pushed his plan...
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.
Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.
They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.
They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
Re: Ryanverse
I'm curious, in all the "OMG the US won again?!" whining... how many times has the USA actually lost battles and wars? This is an actual honest question.
I know Vietnam, and obviously there are engagements that were lost in WWII (You're welcome Europe, except Gemrany and Italy ) , but I mean in recent Tom Clancy time? Which times did the US not win?
I know Vietnam, and obviously there are engagements that were lost in WWII (You're welcome Europe, except Gemrany and Italy ) , but I mean in recent Tom Clancy time? Which times did the US not win?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
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Hit it.
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Re: Ryanverse
Al-Kaida is a terrorist organization, while Executive Orders had a nation trying to do the same. Al-Kaida would benefit from a US overreaction and use of WMDs, unlike a national actor. Al-Kaida has a distributed command structure divided into cells which conventional armies have trouble destroying ; A national actor is very vulnerable to tanks.Sidewinder wrote: This IS al-Qaeda and the Taliban's plan..
Oh, come on. It's not that the US wins at all, it's that it wins effortlessly and easily and without any setbacks whatsoever against enemies too incompetent to ever feel threatening, whether it is fighting a set-piece battle against an overwhelming enemy force, tries to run off the Soviet Navy or attempts a deep penetration special op to destroy Chinese ICBMs.Havok wrote: I know Vietnam, and obviously there are engagements that were lost in WWII (You're welcome Europe, except Gemrany and Italy ) , but I mean in recent Tom Clancy time? Which times did the US not win?
You need drama in fiction ; Clancy writes technothrillers which stopped thrilling decades ago.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Re: Ryanverse
PeZook... he did write them decades ago, two of them to be exact. But out of obscurity if Clancy is not the one to be pegged as writing the techothrillers that thrill, who is?PeZook wrote:
You need drama in fiction ; Clancy writes technothrillers which stopped thrilling decades ago.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Re: Ryanverse
I can't come up with a decent technothriller author off the top of my head, sadly...sadly because it's one of those things I'd really like to irrationally love againMr Bean wrote: PeZook... he did write them decades ago, two of them to be exact. But out of obscurity if Clancy is not the one to be pegged as writing the techothrillers that thrill, who is?
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Re: Ryanverse
Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Vietnam, Korea are the big ones. The US has actually lost (or stalemated) more major wars it entered than it has won.Havok wrote:I'm curious, in all the "OMG the US won again?!" whining... how many times has the USA actually lost battles and wars? This is an actual honest question.
I know Vietnam, and obviously there are engagements that were lost in WWII (You're welcome Europe, except Gemrany and Italy ) , but I mean in recent Tom Clancy time? Which times did the US not win?
Or Patrick Robinson who is the worst there is in terms of US milwank. The one with the worst Mary Sue's as well.Connor MacLeod wrote:I can think of one good thing to say about Tom Clancy. He's not Dale Brown.
Stephen Coonts is one who manages to write good fiction without having the antagonists be idiots.PeZook wrote:I can't come up with a decent technothriller author off the top of my head, sadly...sadly because it's one of those things I'd really like to irrationally love againMr Bean wrote: PeZook... he did write them decades ago, two of them to be exact. But out of obscurity if Clancy is not the one to be pegged as writing the techothrillers that thrill, who is?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Ryanverse
its not about how small your national dick isHavok wrote:I'm curious, in all the "OMG the US won again?!" whining... how many times has the USA actually lost battles and wars? This is an actual honest question.
I know Vietnam, and obviously there are engagements that were lost in WWII (You're welcome Europe, except Gemrany and Italy ) , but I mean in recent Tom Clancy time? Which times did the US not win?
its about how its not interesting dramatically to see yet another rehash of super advanced overwhelming force america kills people it doesn't like effortlessly
Re: Ryanverse
I've read most of the Ryan books... I don't remember it being quite that bad.
And usually, IIRC it is mostly due to technological superiority, that allows the USA guys to always win, more than "GUNG -HO! USA USA!!".
I mean we do out spend every nation on Earth combined like 4 times over on something on our fancy military stuff.
And usually, IIRC it is mostly due to technological superiority, that allows the USA guys to always win, more than "GUNG -HO! USA USA!!".
I mean we do out spend every nation on Earth combined like 4 times over on something on our fancy military stuff.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
Re: Ryanverse
man clancy stuff got way worse than the ryan stuff
do you want to know how many times america tech ninjas kill mexicans and or mexicans invade vegas? :V its the fascistic thing where the books are both about how america is super powerful tech wizards of right wing toughness who don't back down never ever OH SAY CAN YOU SEE... but also at threat from any and all brown people or slanty people or whatever with their cardboard guns and insidious drug problems who can miraculously threaten america in a stupid way so they can be trivially destroyed by the amazing and glorious military industrial complex for whom your freedoms were sacrificed praise lockheed
just cause the later stuff is even worse doesn't make the orgiianl stuff good by comparison
do you want to know how many times america tech ninjas kill mexicans and or mexicans invade vegas? :V its the fascistic thing where the books are both about how america is super powerful tech wizards of right wing toughness who don't back down never ever OH SAY CAN YOU SEE... but also at threat from any and all brown people or slanty people or whatever with their cardboard guns and insidious drug problems who can miraculously threaten america in a stupid way so they can be trivially destroyed by the amazing and glorious military industrial complex for whom your freedoms were sacrificed praise lockheed
just cause the later stuff is even worse doesn't make the orgiianl stuff good by comparison
Re: Ryanverse
Sure it is that bad. Because even when you take away all the technological stuff, Clancy still has the Americans be the best guys there are.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
- Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ryanverse
I vaguely recall in Cadinal of the Kremlin how there was some lesbian KGB spy or something who sold out one noble scienteist because she wanted to put the moves on his girlfriend/fiance or something, and it lead to the HRT showing up, or something. Been ages since I read that book.
Then again if it had been Dale Brown we would have had power armoured US supper troopers backed up by laser and attack drone armed super stealth doomplanes and remotely piloted robot battle droids to the rescue. Who possibly were a mercenary outfit/private sector venture/freedom force/Batman Analog.
Then again if it had been Dale Brown we would have had power armoured US supper troopers backed up by laser and attack drone armed super stealth doomplanes and remotely piloted robot battle droids to the rescue. Who possibly were a mercenary outfit/private sector venture/freedom force/Batman Analog.
Re: Ryanverse
PeZook wrote: I can't come up with a decent technothriller author off the top of my head, sadly...sadly because it's one of those things I'd really like to irrationally love again
The Aden Effect
Which doesn't have any "and then war happens". In fact, it's more a buddy-cop book that's about the US trying to get a sweetheart oil deal while competing with the Chinese. No "Raahhh Freedom Democracy 9/11 arrgh!" which describes 99% of the technothrillers out there.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Re: Ryanverse
I read Flight Of The Old Dog and Silver Tower in the 8th grade (1989) and even then i picked up on the cheezy factor. Still read both books though, but in my defense i was 13 and they had lots of explosions.Connor MacLeod wrote:I vaguely recall in Cadinal of the Kremlin how there was some lesbian KGB spy or something who sold out one noble scienteist because she wanted to put the moves on his girlfriend/fiance or something, and it lead to the HRT showing up, or something. Been ages since I read that book.
Then again if it had been Dale Brown we would have had power armoured US supper troopers backed up by laser and attack drone armed super stealth doomplanes and remotely piloted robot battle droids to the rescue. Who possibly were a mercenary outfit/private sector venture/freedom force/Batman Analog.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Re: Ryanverse
good 'technothrillers' aren't technothrillers at all
because it's a made-up genre about solving 'drama' with jet planes :v
because it's a made-up genre about solving 'drama' with jet planes :v
Re: Ryanverse
Also in the Ryanverse we've had nuclear terrorism, successful bioterrorism...and 9/11 is still the defining thing for early 21st Century America.
"Sure we had tens of thousands killed by a nuke and super-ebola. But the WTC? Now is when we're going to have hitmen running around Europe. Go Ravens."
"Sure we had tens of thousands killed by a nuke and super-ebola. But the WTC? Now is when we're going to have hitmen running around Europe. Go Ravens."
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Re: Ryanverse
That was pretty hilarious.
Have you read the recent stuff though (I'm a terrible person) where the damn Democrats are trying to get a special forces soldier in trouble for shooting a sleeping enemy during a mission? And thankfully super secret black ops wetwork team take him onboard to save him from the evils of justice and due process?
Have you read the recent stuff though (I'm a terrible person) where the damn Democrats are trying to get a special forces soldier in trouble for shooting a sleeping enemy during a mission? And thankfully super secret black ops wetwork team take him onboard to save him from the evils of justice and due process?
Re: Ryanverse
No, I resolved to never read a TC book again after "Teeth of the Tiger". Not even checking it out of the library.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Re: Ryanverse
I think it's that same book where the Cartels team up with Al Qaeda to destroy America. Because the Cartels hate America and want to destroy it, right? Not just make insane profits from it.
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Re: Ryanverse
How many of his books have you actually read? Clancy got progressively worse, and the general political themes of the books are terrible (lowpoint IMO being the American girl raped and killed by those damn dirty slant eyes) but it's nowhere near as one sided as you suggest. Debt of Honour and the disabling or destruction of most of the USN's Pacific fleet. The arrogant F-14 pilot getting his comeuppance in Red October; the US boomer being hunted and sunk in Sum of All Fears, or the Berlin Brigade getting torn up by its Russian equivalents; the FBI getting outfoxed by the terrorists in Patriot Games. I understand bashing Clancy is a nerd past time, but at least try and be semi-accurate.PeZook wrote:Oh, come on. It's not that the US wins at all, it's that it wins effortlessly and easily and without any setbacks whatsoever against enemies too incompetent to ever feel threatening, whether it is fighting a set-piece battle against an overwhelming enemy force, tries to run off the Soviet Navy or attempts a deep penetration special op to destroy Chinese ICBMs.
You need drama in fiction ; Clancy writes technothrillers which stopped thrilling decades ago.
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.
Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding. - Ron Wilson
Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding. - Ron Wilson