Well, that is mainly based on what I've heard from my friends who watched it, as well as some of the audience sitting around us while we are watching it.Gandalf wrote:Ray, when you say "the audience," do you mean yourself?
Because the story points you mentioned as confusing seemed pretty damn obvious.
The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
You're not always over-the-top with it, so I'm sure many posters don't notice who you really are.Batman wrote:It's something that I'm used to people knowing since I've been doing it pretty much since I've joined this board. No, it doesn't bother me, I'm just no longer used to people not knowing.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
I generally really really liked it though:
Spoiler
Spoiler
Also, the movie made me a bit home sick, given just how much of the action in the movie was filmed in Downtown Pittsburgh, where I was going "Hey, that's Trinity Cathedral... and you just hit it with a missile. Damn, I liked that church." Gotham has always been a weird mash-up of New York, Chicago, and Pittsburgh in the movies, and it was a bit more Pittsburgh in this one than most. It even has the Steelers and UPMC!
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
So, uh, since this thread has a spoiler warning, I'll just go ahead and not use spoiler tags.
But, man, this movie was a confused mess. Not only were the technical aspects of a bunch of characters, technology, etc, weird as fuck (the reactor bomb, the teleporting characters, the bizarre fire-power differences on everything, the time jumps), but the messages the movie was attempting to portray were pretty muddled. It's not as if they weren't impossible to understand (destructive lies, the nature of heroes, stuff), they just weren't done very well. Why'd they go with the whole evil OWS in the first place if it didn't really go anywhere? Why was Talia set up to be a villain via sexual advances? Bane just being a cipher of Talia's will kinda destroyed him as a character for me, along with the random henchmen killing.
Although, everyone lying to themselves and others was kind of interesting. Bruce was lying to himself about his grief and his need for Batman, Anne Hathaway was lying to herself about her career as a thief, Gordon lying to himself about his relative lack of dirtiness, and Bane basically lying to everyone about everything all helped tie into that theme.
Also, the funniest moments were unintentional for me. Bane's voice wavered from incomprehensible to just downright laughable. He just reminded me so much of a caricature of a Russian dude it was funny. Also, the military commander was just too funny in his pressed lipped mannerism.
I just wished they had dropped the whole orphanage thing. Yeah, I guess it gave motivation for Robin to help the city and get involved with Bruce Wayne but I didn't feel they contributed much else to the movie, especially with the whole evacuation at the end.
But, man, this movie was a confused mess. Not only were the technical aspects of a bunch of characters, technology, etc, weird as fuck (the reactor bomb, the teleporting characters, the bizarre fire-power differences on everything, the time jumps), but the messages the movie was attempting to portray were pretty muddled. It's not as if they weren't impossible to understand (destructive lies, the nature of heroes, stuff), they just weren't done very well. Why'd they go with the whole evil OWS in the first place if it didn't really go anywhere? Why was Talia set up to be a villain via sexual advances? Bane just being a cipher of Talia's will kinda destroyed him as a character for me, along with the random henchmen killing.
Although, everyone lying to themselves and others was kind of interesting. Bruce was lying to himself about his grief and his need for Batman, Anne Hathaway was lying to herself about her career as a thief, Gordon lying to himself about his relative lack of dirtiness, and Bane basically lying to everyone about everything all helped tie into that theme.
Also, the funniest moments were unintentional for me. Bane's voice wavered from incomprehensible to just downright laughable. He just reminded me so much of a caricature of a Russian dude it was funny. Also, the military commander was just too funny in his pressed lipped mannerism.
I just wished they had dropped the whole orphanage thing. Yeah, I guess it gave motivation for Robin to help the city and get involved with Bruce Wayne but I didn't feel they contributed much else to the movie, especially with the whole evacuation at the end.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Along with the above, why the hell was everyone so incredulous at Gordon's claims? Not only has Gotham been attacked by masked madmen before (twice!), but there was a huge shoot-out moments before with at least six SWAT members getting seriously injured if not killed outright. Hell, Gordon himself was shot multiple times from rifles before ending up being found half-drowned. It's as if everyone was wearing the biggest derp hat possible, or just trying to brazenly ignore reality. If that had shown people just didn't want to confront the fact that there might be another Joker-esque threat to the city that would have been a touch more acceptable, but instead it was just chief WhatHisName saying "Oh, silly Gordon. He's just seeing things!"
Why'd Talia and Bane need Dagget, anyway? It's not as if Dagget wasn't already pursuing Wayne Corp's holdings, nor was he required for Bane's group to contract Anne Hathaway to rob Wayne of his fingerprints. The concrete explosives was kinda hard to buy, since Bane's group already had run of the sewers and had managed to ship ass-loads of heavy weapons into the city in the first place. I guess they needed him to spur Wayne into showing Talia the reactor? But they already apparently knew about it, along with the weapon's cache Lucius assured Wayne was "off the books."
The more I think about it the more they really dropped the ball with the whole communist revolution aspect of the story. Sure, they were just using the discontent to do ... something (they had already trapped the police and had full run of the city, who gives a shit that they were blathering on about "returning Gotham to you!"?), but there was no clear idea that anyone was suffering in the city. I guess Selina was supposed to represent that, and the orphans as well, however Selina comes off as obviously jaded and clearly lying to Wayne about her motives, and the orphans plot just spun its wheels and took up screen time. They could have tied the theme of lies being destructive pretty well into corruption of ideals and authoritarian takeovers through abuse of law with the Dent Act. It was a perfect opportunity to show that the police had more far-reaching powers, that people who may have committed minor crimes were being held without bail, or anything of that kind. Instead all we get is Selina being the least harmful person getting sent to Blackgate (?). Like, when Bane comes in to break into the prison there wasn't a single prisoner there who didn't take up a rifle and join him in his quest to start murdering the rich. Apparently everyone they showed arrested with the Dent Act deserved to have bail revoked, if they were all crazy murderous fucks to begin with.
Anyway, I'll probably have more to say later, but for now I've gotta head to work.
Why'd Talia and Bane need Dagget, anyway? It's not as if Dagget wasn't already pursuing Wayne Corp's holdings, nor was he required for Bane's group to contract Anne Hathaway to rob Wayne of his fingerprints. The concrete explosives was kinda hard to buy, since Bane's group already had run of the sewers and had managed to ship ass-loads of heavy weapons into the city in the first place. I guess they needed him to spur Wayne into showing Talia the reactor? But they already apparently knew about it, along with the weapon's cache Lucius assured Wayne was "off the books."
The more I think about it the more they really dropped the ball with the whole communist revolution aspect of the story. Sure, they were just using the discontent to do ... something (they had already trapped the police and had full run of the city, who gives a shit that they were blathering on about "returning Gotham to you!"?), but there was no clear idea that anyone was suffering in the city. I guess Selina was supposed to represent that, and the orphans as well, however Selina comes off as obviously jaded and clearly lying to Wayne about her motives, and the orphans plot just spun its wheels and took up screen time. They could have tied the theme of lies being destructive pretty well into corruption of ideals and authoritarian takeovers through abuse of law with the Dent Act. It was a perfect opportunity to show that the police had more far-reaching powers, that people who may have committed minor crimes were being held without bail, or anything of that kind. Instead all we get is Selina being the least harmful person getting sent to Blackgate (?). Like, when Bane comes in to break into the prison there wasn't a single prisoner there who didn't take up a rifle and join him in his quest to start murdering the rich. Apparently everyone they showed arrested with the Dent Act deserved to have bail revoked, if they were all crazy murderous fucks to begin with.
Anyway, I'll probably have more to say later, but for now I've gotta head to work.
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
"Ah yes, 'supervillains'. We have dismissed this claim."Erik von Nein wrote:Along with the above, why the hell was everyone so incredulous at Gordon's claims? Not only has Gotham been attacked by masked madmen before (twice!), but there was a huge shoot-out moments before with at least six SWAT members getting seriously injured if not killed outright. Hell, Gordon himself was shot multiple times from rifles before ending up being found half-drowned. It's as if everyone was wearing the biggest derp hat possible, or just trying to brazenly ignore reality. If that had shown people just didn't want to confront the fact that there might be another Joker-esque threat to the city that would have been a touch more acceptable, but instead it was just chief WhatHisName saying "Oh, silly Gordon. He's just seeing things!"
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Right, Where do we begin?
The film was ok, I can't say outstanding because i was looking at my watch given the overussed screen time on the orphanage plot, if there was one major thing that was eating up too much screen time it was the relation of poverty and orphanage, it just never led to anything and the kids themselves were of little use (not to mention many didn't show the characteristics of having had a tough childhood etc)
nolan took a risk leaving Michael Caine out for a lengthy period of time but it did work in my eyes given the solid emtional performace he delivered with his lines. I still don't think Christian Bale's depiction of bruce Wayne/batman is still the best (keaton's 1989 depiction is still my favourite) but it's good to see how his role was tested at the latter part of the movie.
The film had a theme of lies but it was underused and at worst felt force fed, nearly every revelation about the past was forced in by flash backs, I'm not a fan of them myself and in the age where everything is easier to watch because of DVD's (and the number of releases of the previous films) my memory is not short, flashbacks just feel like a tutorial and at this stage the only people likely to see this film are the fans of the last two.
There were some characters who did nothing, Dagget (along with reasons explained by erik) was just another suit who had no clear intentions and is remarkbly short sighted along with that acting police chief (did anyone remember his name?)who wanted to capture batman, even if he had to be ignroant or whatever showed remarkable lack of respect to Gordan, the guy who came out of the sewers with bullet wounds not to mention all of the past events! I was expecting the chief to say 'Oh, Grandpa's just being senile again'
There is a issue from TDK over the Joker's crazy prep skills, to be fair the film did get away with that by the theme oif choas and the joker was a effective metaphor for gothom spiralling out of control, as said the theme isn't really well conveyed it becomes simply a case of seeing Spoiler
One big pro Spoiler
Spoiler
The film was ok, I can't say outstanding because i was looking at my watch given the overussed screen time on the orphanage plot, if there was one major thing that was eating up too much screen time it was the relation of poverty and orphanage, it just never led to anything and the kids themselves were of little use (not to mention many didn't show the characteristics of having had a tough childhood etc)
nolan took a risk leaving Michael Caine out for a lengthy period of time but it did work in my eyes given the solid emtional performace he delivered with his lines. I still don't think Christian Bale's depiction of bruce Wayne/batman is still the best (keaton's 1989 depiction is still my favourite) but it's good to see how his role was tested at the latter part of the movie.
The film had a theme of lies but it was underused and at worst felt force fed, nearly every revelation about the past was forced in by flash backs, I'm not a fan of them myself and in the age where everything is easier to watch because of DVD's (and the number of releases of the previous films) my memory is not short, flashbacks just feel like a tutorial and at this stage the only people likely to see this film are the fans of the last two.
There were some characters who did nothing, Dagget (along with reasons explained by erik) was just another suit who had no clear intentions and is remarkbly short sighted along with that acting police chief (did anyone remember his name?)who wanted to capture batman, even if he had to be ignroant or whatever showed remarkable lack of respect to Gordan, the guy who came out of the sewers with bullet wounds not to mention all of the past events! I was expecting the chief to say 'Oh, Grandpa's just being senile again'
There is a issue from TDK over the Joker's crazy prep skills, to be fair the film did get away with that by the theme oif choas and the joker was a effective metaphor for gothom spiralling out of control, as said the theme isn't really well conveyed it becomes simply a case of seeing Spoiler
However despite that batman's heroisim is very striking, the shots of the city are still impressive and the soundtrack is just great, Bane's voice isnt so bad but to be perfectly honest I would be more concerned about the guys who had guns then a unarmed guy with a scary mask, at least the Joker gives the promise of his henchmen to run riot with Batman, Bane is so ruthless on his own men that how it dosen't backfire on him I don't know.
One big pro Spoiler
cameo was great to watch.
Spoiler
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Since the title says spoilers I won't bother with the tags either.
Almost the entire police force being trapped underground for a long period was one of the more interesting ideas to me. Was thinking how odd it would be for the society above to change so much until suddenly the police make their way back up with a few people on top laying the ground work for their return. Made me think of that Edgar Allen Poe story where the madhouse patients made themselves at home for a while so that a visitor almost thought nothing amiss until the security personnel escaped from confinement and the patients went banaynay.
Almost the entire police force being trapped underground for a long period was one of the more interesting ideas to me. Was thinking how odd it would be for the society above to change so much until suddenly the police make their way back up with a few people on top laying the ground work for their return. Made me think of that Edgar Allen Poe story where the madhouse patients made themselves at home for a while so that a visitor almost thought nothing amiss until the security personnel escaped from confinement and the patients went banaynay.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
More thoughts to come later, but anyone else think about the fact that Gotham being blocked off like that(and if it's supposed to be New York), that means the World economy crashed. Also, won't they have to do something about the nuclear fallout off the coast?
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
i think that was amissed opportunity, the fact so much officers were trapped over a period of time would had brought about a survival situation, and it would had been interesting to see hoe that would play out, would the law eveentually turn on itself, who could rations/sane/order and what circumstances does it take to break your own laws, though that's more joker territory really.Haruko wrote:Almost the entire police force being trapped underground for a long period was one of the more interesting ideas to me. Was thinking how odd it would be for the society above to change so much until suddenly the police make their way back up with a few people on top laying the ground work for their return. Made me think of that Edgar Allen Poe story where the madhouse patients made themselves at home for a while so that a visitor almost thought nothing amiss until the security personnel escaped from confinement and the patients went banaynay.
Pretty much, it just re-enforces the argument as to why bane and co bothered to stay given cutting off gotham would cause the global market to crash, just have the city run amok for a few weeks, then leave and detonate the bomb and all that would just cause a utter collapse of the world economy full stop.FaxModem1 wrote: but anyone else think about the fact that Gotham being blocked off like that(and if it's supposed to be New York), that means the World economy crashed. Also, won't they have to do something about the nuclear fallout off the coast?
More thoughts to come later, but anyone else think about the fact that Gotham being blocked off like that(and if it's supposed to be New York), that means the World economy crashed. Also, won't they have to do something about the nuclear fallout off the coast?
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
This is the thing that struck me the most. They built that "reactor" (worst reactor design ever, it's like they wanted it to be a bomb that you could take a city hostage with) and Lucius could predict to the second when it would fatally destablize and explode... but exactly one person on the entire planet knows how to shut it down and he wasn't even involved in building it? Wayne Enterprises must have had a team of scientists and engineers who worked on the damn thing who must have wrote technical bibles and instruction manuals for operation of the reactor, but they couldn't be arsed to figure out a safe shut down procedure in the event that the reactor started critically failing? Where are those dudes, anyway? It's not like Lucius Fox is the ONLY guy who works for Wayne Enterprise's R&D, though you wouldn't know it from the Nolan movies.And why dosen't Lucius make a phone call, or even facebook to the FBI etc that his coporation has the details of the bomb WAYNE ENTERPRISES HAD BUILT
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
You had two problems that were inter-related:Gil Hamilton wrote:This is the thing that struck me the most. They built that "reactor" (worst reactor design ever, it's like they wanted it to be a bomb that you could take a city hostage with) and Lucius could predict to the second when it would fatally destablize and explode... but exactly one person on the entire planet knows how to shut it down and he wasn't even involved in building it? Wayne Enterprises must have had a team of scientists and engineers who worked on the damn thing who must have wrote technical bibles and instruction manuals for operation of the reactor, but they couldn't be arsed to figure out a safe shut down procedure in the event that the reactor started critically failing? Where are those dudes, anyway? It's not like Lucius Fox is the ONLY guy who works for Wayne Enterprise's R&D, though you wouldn't know it from the Nolan movies.And why dosen't Lucius make a phone call, or even facebook to the FBI etc that his coporation has the details of the bomb WAYNE ENTERPRISES HAD BUILT
1) The only person who knew how to defuse the bomb was the doctor. He was also the only person (at the time) that knew how to make that reactor into a bomb.
2) The fusion core was decaying.
Problem 1 was solved by jamming the detonator. Problem 2 was to be solved by putting the core back into the reactor.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
What about all the scientists and engineers who worked on the project for Wayne Enterprises? The movie stated that the fusion reactor had already been underway for three years when that doctor published his article and Bruce Wayne pulled the plug on his own guys. Surely the people who built it know how it works and wrote volumes of documentation on the matter. It's a damn nuclear reactor, after all.Questor wrote:You had two problems that were inter-related:
1) The only person who knew how to defuse the bomb was the doctor. He was also the only person (at the time) that knew how to make that reactor into a bomb.
That's some seriously shitty design if the only way to keep the thing from exploding is to keep it running in the reactor. What if you have to disassemble it for transport or need to shut down the reactor for maintenance? Or god forbid a disaster happens or nut jobs decides to steal it (both being a rather serious problem in Gotham City)? That they had absolutely no way to safely shut it down without plugging it back in is absurd.2) The fusion core was decaying.
Problem 1 was solved by jamming the detonator. Problem 2 was to be solved by putting the core back into the reactor.
That's the thing with the Nolan Batman movies is that they decide they want something, like Bane facilitating his revolution by holding Gotham hostage with a nuclear bomb to explain why the national guard doesn't take him out, and increasingly painted themselves into a corner with wilder and wilder implausibilities until they arrived at something rampantly silly. It's alot like the magic microwave gun in the first movie of the Joker being a magic angel baby. It counts on you liking the REST of the movie so much that you'll forgive a heaping pile of crap. Nolan made the Batman franchise less goofy than previous showings, but he didn't make it more realistic in execution.
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"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
I'm with Gil: the big thing that pissed me off was the bad physics. How do you stop a nuclear bomb from exploding? These things rely on very precise geometry and timing -- all you have to do is blow the damned thing up. You'll have a radioactive mess on your hands, but you won't level half the city (actually, was it a 4 MT bomb or was it a neutron bomb? they said both at different times in the movie). And a fusion reactor turned into a bomb? Give me a break.
Other than the physics, though, I really enjoyed it. The Talia al'Ghul reveal caught me completely by surprise. I had actually marked the movie down in my head earlier because of the sudden, unforeshadowed sex between Bruce Wayne and Miranda. Turns out, this was actually foreshadowing that she was Talia manipulating him, so the movie earned the lost points back plus some.
Bane was fucking scary. Not only did he have a great voice - the weak, precise, well-spoken Bane was actually much scarier than the deep villainous voice I had imagined. I immediately contrasted Bane with Ledger's Joker. The Joker was chaos personified, moving from act to act without any self-reflection, with events arranging themselves just so. It's not clear at all that the Joker has any ultimate goal; he just moves from game to game. Meanwhile, Bane is pretty clearly self-aware with a final goal in mind. Whereas the Joker prances from scheme to scheme, Bane meticulously works the levers of Gotham's society to manipulate the city into effectively destroying itself before the he delivers the final blow.
I wish the Talia reveal had been fifteen or twenty minutes before it actually happened. With just ten minutes left, there was no time to develop Talia's real character. Instead they paused the action at a crucial moment for a monologue exposition. The reveal also undermined Bane's status as villain: it appears that instead of being a mastermind, Bane is a pawn in the game of a villain who only exists for another five minutes. On the one hand, we find out at the same time as Batman. On the other, there was potential for more plot tension: if, say, the reveal were by Talia turning in the entire resistance movement while Wayne was still imprisoned, the audience would have been just as surprised and there would have been a bigger problem for Wayne to solve upon his return to the city. We could also have explored the character of Talia and had more time to contrast it to the adopted character of Miranda. The writers could also have developed the relationship between Talia and Bane, instead of the ten-second interaction we got on-screen.
Catwoman was well-written and -executed. I wish there had been more romantic tension between her and Wayne/Batman. More thoughts on this relationship later.
Overall, I greatly enjoyed the movie (except for the physics, which made me facepalm every time they mentioned it). It wasn't as tightly cut as it could have been, but that only detracted slightly. The two great flaws were the late Talia al'Ghul reveal and the horrible physics. The great moments included Wayne climbing out of the pit, every scene with Bane before the Talia reveal, the national anthem, and the closing montage (especially with Robin). I also really liked that we got a definite feel for the shape and scope of Gotham. In the first two movies, I just remember generic cityscape with action moving from place to place with no larger context to relate the places. Here, the city was given a much more definite shape. (This is one of those cinematographic techniques that set the later Harry Potter movies apart from the earlier ones: establishing shots relating different parts of Hogwarts to each other.)
Other than the physics, though, I really enjoyed it. The Talia al'Ghul reveal caught me completely by surprise. I had actually marked the movie down in my head earlier because of the sudden, unforeshadowed sex between Bruce Wayne and Miranda. Turns out, this was actually foreshadowing that she was Talia manipulating him, so the movie earned the lost points back plus some.
Bane was fucking scary. Not only did he have a great voice - the weak, precise, well-spoken Bane was actually much scarier than the deep villainous voice I had imagined. I immediately contrasted Bane with Ledger's Joker. The Joker was chaos personified, moving from act to act without any self-reflection, with events arranging themselves just so. It's not clear at all that the Joker has any ultimate goal; he just moves from game to game. Meanwhile, Bane is pretty clearly self-aware with a final goal in mind. Whereas the Joker prances from scheme to scheme, Bane meticulously works the levers of Gotham's society to manipulate the city into effectively destroying itself before the he delivers the final blow.
I wish the Talia reveal had been fifteen or twenty minutes before it actually happened. With just ten minutes left, there was no time to develop Talia's real character. Instead they paused the action at a crucial moment for a monologue exposition. The reveal also undermined Bane's status as villain: it appears that instead of being a mastermind, Bane is a pawn in the game of a villain who only exists for another five minutes. On the one hand, we find out at the same time as Batman. On the other, there was potential for more plot tension: if, say, the reveal were by Talia turning in the entire resistance movement while Wayne was still imprisoned, the audience would have been just as surprised and there would have been a bigger problem for Wayne to solve upon his return to the city. We could also have explored the character of Talia and had more time to contrast it to the adopted character of Miranda. The writers could also have developed the relationship between Talia and Bane, instead of the ten-second interaction we got on-screen.
Catwoman was well-written and -executed. I wish there had been more romantic tension between her and Wayne/Batman. More thoughts on this relationship later.
Overall, I greatly enjoyed the movie (except for the physics, which made me facepalm every time they mentioned it). It wasn't as tightly cut as it could have been, but that only detracted slightly. The two great flaws were the late Talia al'Ghul reveal and the horrible physics. The great moments included Wayne climbing out of the pit, every scene with Bane before the Talia reveal, the national anthem, and the closing montage (especially with Robin). I also really liked that we got a definite feel for the shape and scope of Gotham. In the first two movies, I just remember generic cityscape with action moving from place to place with no larger context to relate the places. Here, the city was given a much more definite shape. (This is one of those cinematographic techniques that set the later Harry Potter movies apart from the earlier ones: establishing shots relating different parts of Hogwarts to each other.)
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
And how would all those scientists and engineers know what, if any, anti-tamper devices are on the modified version? It's not like it's sitting at Bikini and the only ones who'll notice if they do the wrong thing and blow it up are them...Gil Hamilton wrote:What about all the scientists and engineers who worked on the project for Wayne Enterprises? The movie stated that the fusion reactor had already been underway for three years when that doctor published his article and Bruce Wayne pulled the plug on his own guys. Surely the people who built it know how it works and wrote volumes of documentation on the matter. It's a damn nuclear reactor, after all.Questor wrote:You had two problems that were inter-related:
1) The only person who knew how to defuse the bomb was the doctor. He was also the only person (at the time) that knew how to make that reactor into a bomb.
Not saying it's realistic, all I was doing is saying that it's not as crazy as you made it out to be.That's some seriously shitty design if the only way to keep the thing from exploding is to keep it running in the reactor. What if you have to disassemble it for transport or need to shut down the reactor for maintenance? Or god forbid a disaster happens or nut jobs decides to steal it (both being a rather serious problem in Gotham City)? That they had absolutely no way to safely shut it down without plugging it back in is absurd.2) The fusion core was decaying.
Problem 1 was solved by jamming the detonator. Problem 2 was to be solved by putting the core back into the reactor.
That's the thing with the Nolan Batman movies is that they decide they want something, like Bane facilitating his revolution by holding Gotham hostage with a nuclear bomb to explain why the national guard doesn't take him out, and increasingly painted themselves into a corner with wilder and wilder implausibilities until they arrived at something rampantly silly. It's alot like the magic microwave gun in the first movie of the Joker being a magic angel baby. It counts on you liking the REST of the movie so much that you'll forgive a heaping pile of crap. Nolan made the Batman franchise less goofy than previous showings, but he didn't make it more realistic in execution.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Is the spoiler tagging really necessary given the thread is labeled?
Doing so anyway.
Doing so anyway.
SpoilerSpoiler
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Yeah, it's not like he came out and said to Bruce Wayne "I am going to give Gotham hope, torture it, and then kill it." He certainly didn't say that at all. Nope, Bane's ultimate goal is completely inscrutable.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Yeah, except we never see anyone but the prisoners joining Bane and they have freaking Scarecrow overseeing the kangaroo courts. They botched the whole thing pretty badly in my opinion. The best you see are some rich people being pulled out of apartment buildings and then a bunch of people living in them for a bit. And then that's it. So ... what about the rest of the city? You see some bread lines, some of the board (and a bunch of other people?) from Wayne's corporation, and then some people coming out of their houses after the resolution of the bomb plot. Apparently by "tearing itself apart" it's more that the police are locked away and criminals are holding it hostage. Because, aside from that scene mentioned earlier that's all we're ever really shown.
As far as Wayne being tortured by that happening, what do we get? He throws a rock at the TV and ... pontificates about fear with some old dude. Maybe I missed some dialogue about that but it seemed more related to Wayne as a person looking to have something beyond the persona of Batman than anything related to whatever was happening in Gotham.
As far as Wayne being tortured by that happening, what do we get? He throws a rock at the TV and ... pontificates about fear with some old dude. Maybe I missed some dialogue about that but it seemed more related to Wayne as a person looking to have something beyond the persona of Batman than anything related to whatever was happening in Gotham.
Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
I'm not saying the execution was great, I'm saying that Ray is clueless because the movie made perfectly clear what Bane was intending to do to the city.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
They'd absolutely be useful in identifying and removing anti-tampering devices in the modified version, since they could see and understand how the reactor had been modified, as well as disabling the reactor. Of course, the movie didn't even acknowledge that they exist, claiming that not a single person, other than the Russian scientist, knew how the thing worked even though he didn't build it. That's pretty damn silly.Questor wrote:And how would all those scientists and engineers know what, if any, anti-tamper devices are on the modified version? It's not like it's sitting at Bikini and the only ones who'll notice if they do the wrong thing and blow it up are them...
No, it really is.Not saying it's realistic, all I was doing is saying that it's not as crazy as you made it out to be.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Fair enough.Surlethe wrote:I'm not saying the execution was great, I'm saying that Ray is clueless because the movie made perfectly clear what Bane was intending to do to the city.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
The only thing that really annoyed me was the way Bane was killed.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Movie starts in 11 minutes. But this chain loves commercials. Probably gotta wait 30.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
then it's good thats not what actually happened isn't it?Gil Hamilton wrote:They'd absolutely be useful in identifying and removing anti-tampering devices in the modified version, since they could see and understand how the reactor had been modified, as well as disabling the reactor. Of course, the movie didn't even acknowledge that they exist, claiming that not a single person, other than the Russian scientist, knew how the thing worked even though he didn't build it. That's pretty damn silly.Questor wrote:And how would all those scientists and engineers know what, if any, anti-tamper devices are on the modified version? It's not like it's sitting at Bikini and the only ones who'll notice if they do the wrong thing and blow it up are them...
Wha was said was that he was the only one who knew how to weaponize it, and it was the weaponized version that was going to explode. Presumably without the actual weaponization the exploding part wouldnt have happened if the weaponization did not occur.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)
Just got back from seeing this. I will refrain from posting a numerical rating for now, since I've been sleep deprived for most of the past week and felt tired going into the theater today. I enjoyed the movie thought it was very well crafted, but I don't think I was able to get into it as much as I should have. I'll probably go and see it again in the next week or so just to get a better feel for it.
It might have slipped by me, but was Bruce actually crippled in the beginning, and if so, why? Was that supposed to be an injury sustained from his fall at the end of The Dark Knight? At first I thought that it was a total front meant to deceive people after Bruce decided to become a recluse. But then I saw him limping around with his cane in private, when he was alone or with Alfred. They even showed him resorting to some kind of exoskeleton on his leg. Then after getting his back messed up by Bane (an injury which he recovered rather quickly from), Bruce just trained himself back so that he physically seemed good as new.
Bane was a terrific villain. I liked the mysterious intro, with the CIA agents demanding answers about him as a man they knew nothing about. Also, the extremely ballsy way that he took them out. Lots of people were wondering how this movie's villain would follow up the Joker. While Bane wasn't as distinctive, he certainly stood on his own. I liked the confidence and bluntness of the character, as he tore the city apart. This guy was scary, and had a voice to match. I thought he was hard to hear at a few points though. He showed absolutely no hesitation to kill off underlings with his bare hands, which along with his breath mask made him seem very much like Darth Vader (which I hear is one of Nolan's influences). I liked how they kept the part about him growing up in a prison, and emphasized that he had truly lived in the darkness while Bruce had merely "adopted" it. I thought his second fight with Batman was a bit underwhelming though. Bane had been built up as this nearly invincible mental and physical giant...but Batman just took him down by punching him a few times in the mask?
I thought that Catwoman was very well done, even though her part in this movie really wasn't very big. Anne Hathaway was DEAD ON as Selina Kyle, and this casting choice seems just about perfect now that I've seen it. She was everything the character should be - sexy, playful, selfish, and cunning - all without being oversexualized and turned into over-the-top T&A like she might have been in less capable hands. I loved the way that she handled herself when selling Bruce Wayne's fingerprints. I just wish that they had found more time to better fit her into this movie. Her relationship with Batman seemed a bit rushed. Despite her stealing from him and repeatedly demonstrating that she looks out for herself, Bruce seemed very quick to trust her and bring her into the fold.
The villains' plot was cool, and much bigger in scale than the trailers would let you believe. I thought that Bane would go around inciting riots, sort of a much more violent version of "Occupy Wall Street" (a point that the media leading up to this film probably overemphasized). I didn't know that he would have full control of the League of Shadows, seize control of the city for months with a nuclear bomb, and tell off the US military. The nuke stuff was probably silly from a physics standpoint, but this is a superhero movie and I like fantastical tech and out-of-this-world plots (just like the weird "microwave emitter" from the first movie).
Spoiler
One thing that I did find strange was how little the middle portion of the movie spent on Bruce/Batman, after his defeat at the hands of Bane. In a way, Joseph Gordon-Levitt's original "John Blake" character kind of took over things for a while. I thought he did a good job as an idealistic young cop, and he carried himself like a real dramatic action hero.
Spoiler
It might have slipped by me, but was Bruce actually crippled in the beginning, and if so, why? Was that supposed to be an injury sustained from his fall at the end of The Dark Knight? At first I thought that it was a total front meant to deceive people after Bruce decided to become a recluse. But then I saw him limping around with his cane in private, when he was alone or with Alfred. They even showed him resorting to some kind of exoskeleton on his leg. Then after getting his back messed up by Bane (an injury which he recovered rather quickly from), Bruce just trained himself back so that he physically seemed good as new.
Bane was a terrific villain. I liked the mysterious intro, with the CIA agents demanding answers about him as a man they knew nothing about. Also, the extremely ballsy way that he took them out. Lots of people were wondering how this movie's villain would follow up the Joker. While Bane wasn't as distinctive, he certainly stood on his own. I liked the confidence and bluntness of the character, as he tore the city apart. This guy was scary, and had a voice to match. I thought he was hard to hear at a few points though. He showed absolutely no hesitation to kill off underlings with his bare hands, which along with his breath mask made him seem very much like Darth Vader (which I hear is one of Nolan's influences). I liked how they kept the part about him growing up in a prison, and emphasized that he had truly lived in the darkness while Bruce had merely "adopted" it. I thought his second fight with Batman was a bit underwhelming though. Bane had been built up as this nearly invincible mental and physical giant...but Batman just took him down by punching him a few times in the mask?
I thought that Catwoman was very well done, even though her part in this movie really wasn't very big. Anne Hathaway was DEAD ON as Selina Kyle, and this casting choice seems just about perfect now that I've seen it. She was everything the character should be - sexy, playful, selfish, and cunning - all without being oversexualized and turned into over-the-top T&A like she might have been in less capable hands. I loved the way that she handled herself when selling Bruce Wayne's fingerprints. I just wish that they had found more time to better fit her into this movie. Her relationship with Batman seemed a bit rushed. Despite her stealing from him and repeatedly demonstrating that she looks out for herself, Bruce seemed very quick to trust her and bring her into the fold.
The villains' plot was cool, and much bigger in scale than the trailers would let you believe. I thought that Bane would go around inciting riots, sort of a much more violent version of "Occupy Wall Street" (a point that the media leading up to this film probably overemphasized). I didn't know that he would have full control of the League of Shadows, seize control of the city for months with a nuclear bomb, and tell off the US military. The nuke stuff was probably silly from a physics standpoint, but this is a superhero movie and I like fantastical tech and out-of-this-world plots (just like the weird "microwave emitter" from the first movie).
Spoiler
I liked how The Dark Knight Rises not only brought the League of Shadows back, but brought the trilogy full circle. Loved all the callbacks to the first and second movies, and the way they gave closure to Bruce Wayne as a character and publicly redeemed Batman as Gotham's greatest hero.
One thing that I did find strange was how little the middle portion of the movie spent on Bruce/Batman, after his defeat at the hands of Bane. In a way, Joseph Gordon-Levitt's original "John Blake" character kind of took over things for a while. I thought he did a good job as an idealistic young cop, and he carried himself like a real dramatic action hero.
Spoiler
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