SDNW5 Discussion Thread I

[Fenreer]

My designs are most certainly boxes with guns, and I have effectively "borrowed" those from others. I can see where these is some yearning for other alternatives, and since the point system we have in place is as wide open as it can possibly be, I'm interested in seeing what others come up with. Whether it be superman clones or space whales, the point system will cover them and Isaac Newton will stay home and fume with resentment. He would've never understood that Space Dragons travel at the speed of thought or that the Paytomanigs eat gravity to fuel their shields of disbelief. So, screw'im.


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Dwarven Conclave Trade Pact Derby:
1) Bastian Star Empire (Panzersharkcat)
2) The Chi-Sqee-Squeek (Dark Hellion)
3)
4)

Not sure where KhorneFlakes fits just yet (reciprocal pact or On Deck)
On Deck: Simon_Jester, OmegaChief, Simon_Jester, Skywalker_T-65,

Still room available... give a pact/get a pact... the best way to make free money.

Did I miss anybody?

[Simon_Jester]

If anyone wants to come up with something wacky and outside the context of "their" major nation, that's what the micronation stuff is for.

[Akhlut]

The Kritarchy or one of its client states might see fit to trade with the Dwarves.

[Akhlut]

What I mean is that I perceive something of a lack of imaginativeness in how battleships or whatever are presented. I'm wondering how many people's warships are something other than big boxy turret farms, in other words...

Unfortunately, I'm not the one to fix this.

The Grays CIC ships are not particularly bristling with conventional weapons. They have a few point defense guns to get dumb-missiles or the like, but most of the ship is covered with various antennae to jam signals, hack into enemy AI systems, and otherwise try to destroy the enemy's own intelligence and ability to communicate in and among themselves.

And also to do such fun things as simultaneously open all the airlocks on a ship while disabling the internal walls from closing in case of a loss of pressure.

Or fool the engine sensors to keep it from venting gases that prevent overheating.

Or messing with the torpedoes guidance systems so that all the targets are friendly ships.

And so on and so forth.

[Darkevilme]

I just had a crazy unconventional idea. It ties in to the stuff i've added to my nation description recently, particularly the tech section, so anyone looking for clarity might want to look there.

Chamarran ground forces can retaliate against orbital bombardment by using ground to orbit missiles mounting bounce port receivers.

A chamarran army planetside with sufficient launchers can retaliate against an orbiting starship by BOARDING IT.

As an aside if anyone has any objections to the tech I've listed on the nation description raise them now.

[Esquire]

That helps me justify my fleets' propensity for boarding actions - it's mostly built to fight the Chamarrans, and if you do things like that I'd better have some Marines on board to help defend the ship from teleporting catgirls. And since I've got all these Marines, might as well use them against non-Chamarrans too...

[Skywalker_T-65]

Well, that wouldn't work on the SPACE VIKINGS. In point of fact, they would probably leap at the chance to repel boarders. These are SPACE VIKINGS after all...

(Of course that isn't to say it wouldn't work tech wise, just that it would play into the VIKINGS favor)

[Simon_Jester]

I have nothing in particular against short-range teleportation. In fact, the idea that it is theoretically possible and that someone else suggested it simplifies my own ideas a little. Although I choose not to present Umeria as having the technology on a wide enough scale to matter for normal purposes, assuming it exists at all outside a few mad geniuses' labs.

What I mean is that I perceive something of a lack of imaginativeness in how battleships or whatever are presented. I'm wondering how many people's warships are something other than big boxy turret farms, in other words...

Unfortunately, I'm not the one to fix this.

The Grays CIC ships are not particularly bristling with conventional weapons. They have a few point defense guns to get dumb-missiles or the like, but most of the ship is covered with various antennae to jam signals, hack into enemy AI systems, and otherwise try to destroy the enemy's own intelligence and ability to communicate in and among themselves.

And also to do such fun things as simultaneously open all the airlocks on a ship while disabling the internal walls from closing in case of a loss of pressure.

Or fool the engine sensors to keep it from venting gases that prevent overheating.

Or messing with the torpedoes guidance systems so that all the targets are friendly ships.

And so on and so forth.

Fascinating.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Also, a quick question for Dark…how would the Chamarrans view Arcadia? Looking at your nation post, they seem to view human nations on a case-by-case basis. And it seems to help when humans aren’t in sole control of the nation…which would help Arcadia considering that the Furlings have quite a bit of power (including the strongest single ship in the Republic’s territory). So with the fact that the humans aren’t completely in charge, would they be willing to not put Space Sweden on the ‘conquer at all costs’ thing?

(Just trying to figure all this stuff out now, so I am ready come game start)

[OmegaChief]

I have nothing in particular against short-range teleportation. In fact, the idea that it is theoretically possible and that someone else suggested it simplifies my own ideas a little. Although I choose not to present Umeria as having the technology on a wide enough scale to matter for normal purposes, assuming it exists at all outside a few mad geniuses' labs.

Lets not forget the Authorities somewhat... Unique and highly deadly first method of FTL travel, some form of teleportation certianly seems to work in the universe alright.

[Darkevilme]

Also, a quick question for Dark…how would the Chamarrans view Arcadia? Looking at your nation post, they seem to view human nations on a case-by-case basis. And it seems to help when humans aren’t in sole control of the nation…which would help Arcadia considering that the Furlings have quite a bit of power (including the strongest single ship in the Republic’s territory). So with the fact that the humans aren’t completely in charge, would they be willing to not put Space Sweden on the ‘conquer at all costs’ thing?

(Just trying to figure all this stuff out now, so I am ready come game start)

It's possible that due to them having enough difficulties as is with the other monkey nations that were there some financial incentive they'd pretend they were just dealing with the furlings. So long as they dont have to officially recognize the humans in charge they can just sort of, ignore the fact that by the look of things its still man ruling over man. So a situation where all the Arcadian communications are signed by furling diplomats and such. Sort of like a reduced version of the Umerian attitude to greys. They know there's humans in charge but if its politically expedient to get along with Arcadia they'd just pretend the humans weren't in charge so as not to get into ideological issues with the implications of an official acknowledgement.

[Simon_Jester]

That gives me an interesting idea...

[Esquire]

Doesn't that sound ominous...

[Skywalker_T-65]

Yes...yes it does...

[The Romulan Republic]

Good to know teleportation is allowed. My Romulans are obviously from Star Trek, and they will have transporters.

Cloaking is okay too, I hope?

[Simon_Jester]

Cloaking is okay.

The Umerians do not have any stealth cutters. Their government is quite clear on this. Will you see THEM engaged in SDNW4-style Stealth Fail incidents? No, you will never see them engaged in such a thing! For they do not exist!

Of course, cloaked ships may be detected, or not detected; stealth versus detection is room for glorious drama and thinkiness and we all remember Balance of Terror right?

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

The SOS Imperial Navy does not operate dedicated reconaissance ships. The Aya Hirano class frigate can easily and quickly be refitted for stealth recon in theory, though such capabilities have not actually been observed or otherwise confirmed in practice. Fighters and gunships tend to handle most of the recon work in the fleet anyway.

On the opposite extreme end of ships, the Nanoha Takamachi class battleship is now worth 900 points. In-universe, the perception of a supposed "dreadnought gap" was what drove the production of those behemoths, though production was halted at two ships due to their sheer cost. An option still exists for a third ship, though production has now shifted over to the Akiyama and Akemi classes, both of which were designed as cheaper alternatives to the Takamachi class.

[Force Lord]

The fellas at the Datton are gonna get shit done once more!

EDIT: As for dreadnought gaps, we can keep building Black Stars and Stormfronts... if certain factions don't keep putting up barriers regarding pesky concepts such as budget competition and taxes....

[Rabid]

Just for general information, RE : ship philosophy, here's the Doxa's one :

Due to the limitations of their power generation capabilities (i.e. : they use Matter/Antimatter annihilation as their power source), the Doxa's warships don't have a really good endurance in combat situation. This force them to go on all-out offensives from the start, and to retreat once their fuel goes below a certain point.
As such and given the social structure of the Community (ubiquitous AIs, really good automation and lots of espers), the ships are totally automated, piloted by a very reduced crew (a Captain and its apprentice(s) - generally one, sometimes more for the biggest ships) and an AI. Each member of the crew is psychic, up to the AI itself with the help of the Community's habit to offer AIs "organic interfaces", for them to feel closer to the Flame.

In practice, this mean that the Doxa tend to rely on really hard-hitting "hit-and-run" tactics, which is transcribed in ships with minimal passive protection (just the most basic shields), relying on superior maneuverability and speed as their primary mean of defense (powerful and agile gravitic propulsion and limited precog on the part of the pilots) ; and whose armament is oriented toward One-Hit-Kills as much as possible (have you seen how much power their guns output ???).
Given that their ships emit blasts of hyperwaves when attacking, which come from their mean of evacuating the tremendous amount of waste-heat their mean of power generation produce (which is to convert it into hyperwaves), this tend to give them the reputation of "Screaming Berzekers" on the battlefield : the first sign a Doxa's ship is going to attack is that your hyperwave receptors will tend to burn out from the hyperwave-equivalent of hundreds of megatons of nukes going off, followed by a volley of powerful long-range lasers, followed by volleys after volleys of guided relativistic projectiles.


As far as the narrative goes, I'm still hesitating on some points, but basically the ships are more an extension of the pilots' bodies than anything else. Which, given the lifespan of the Pilots (its not unusual for them to serve for several centuries - due to mind-upload), tend to make the Doxa's warships look more like giant fighters or robots ala-Evangelion (you don't really want to know how the AI got its psy powers...) than more classical Navy-inspired starships.

Pilots also tend to be really weird. I'm still working on some points, but they are going to be an iconoclast bunch. Most of them will have difficulties relating to non-pilots, though...




The 500-point Pacifier-type ships are a recent addition to the Doxa's doctrine. They're basically Super-Battleships in every way : more powerful guns in more number, increased power output, increased agility & speed, etc... Another addition is a larger Pilot complement, with 5 pilots per ship (not counting the AI). Rumor has that the Doxa is trying to emulate the League's Gestalt Training at their own scale. It is unclear though if this is done in partnership with the League or an independent initiative on the Doxa's part.

[Beowulf]

Dwarven Conclave Trade Pact Derby:
1) Bastian Star Empire (Panzersharkcat)
2) The Chi-Sqee-Squeek (Dark Hellion)
3)
4)

Not sure where KhorneFlakes fits just yet (reciprocal pact or On Deck)
On Deck: Simon_Jester, OmegaChief, Simon_Jester, Skywalker_T-65,

Still room available... give a pact/get a pact... the best way to make free money.

Did I miss anybody?

I think I may have room for a trade pact trade.

[Fenreer]

Dwarven Conclave Trade Pact Derby:
1) Bastian Star Empire (Panzersharkcat)
2) The Chi-Sqee-Squeek (Dark Hellion)
3)
4)

Not sure where KhorneFlakes fits just yet (reciprocal pact or On Deck)
On Deck: Simon_Jester, OmegaChief, Simon_Jester, Skywalker_T-65,

Still room available... give a pact/get a pact... the best way to make free money.

Did I miss anybody?

I think I may have room for a trade pact trade.

Ok... then, if yours and The Kritarchy are both reciprocal, my job will be done.

[KhorneFlakes]

Fenreer, I'd be on deck. I don't have any NCP to give you a trade route back.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Cloaking is okay.

The Umerians do not have any stealth cutters. Their government is quite clear on this. Will you see THEM engaged in SDNW4-style Stealth Fail incidents? No, you will never see them engaged in such a thing! For they do not exist!

Of course, cloaked ships may be detected, or not detected; stealth versus detection is room for glorious drama and thinkiness and we all remember Balance of Terror right?

Of course the Umerians don't have any stealth cutters. Nor do they have Space Swedes as the Chefs...bork, bork...

(You'll have to have read Das Thanasboot in the gaming forum to get that joke)
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Back on the Navy discussions...Arcadian ships are heavily weighted towards mid-range ships. I have hundreds of destroyers and cruisers after all (most of which are more than a match for an equivalent ship from another nation). There are only a relative handful of Battlecruiser and up ships. And only one 900 pointer, which is technically a part of the Furling Navy. So it should be easy to see their tactics...they use the smaller ships to force the enemies ships towards the handful of Battlecruiser and up ships.

The SPACE VIKINGS on the other hand are weighted towards smaller ships. They only have 7 cruisers for example, and one weak battleship (which is actually Arcadia Firsts flagship). Thus, their tactics are somewhat like the Nations...hit hard, and hit fast. Its more from lack of heavy hitting ships than endurance though.

[Simon_Jester]

Of course the Umerians don't have any stealth cutters. Nor do they have Space Swedes as the Chefs...bork, bork...

(You'll have to have read Das Thanasboot in the gaming forum to get that joke)

Arcadian chefs are not located on stealth cutters. Even if Umeria had any stealth cutters, cutters typically have crews of about six. It would require a larger vessel to justify keeping a chef... which the Umerians don't have any more than they have stealth cutters.

[KhorneFlakes]

It is fortunate that the Arcadians or the Umerians don't have giant caterpillar-centipedes as chefs however. That would be... awkward. I'm not even sure what dishes a giant caterpillar-centipede would serve, anyway. Probably nothing no unmodified human could hope to stomach, and even a GM superhuman might have trouble stomaching it anyway.