Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers)

[Grumman]

How the fuck do I get the Prothean? Or should I say when?

Spoiler

When you go to Eden Prime?

[The Grim Squeaker]

How the fuck do I get the Prothean? Or should I say when?

Spoiler

When you go to Eden Prime?

You need the "From Ashes" DLC. (It's included in the collector's edition of ME3 apparently, I think you can buy it seperately).

I finished the game last night (Or should I say, at 3AM).
Fuck. (And not in a good way).

Whatever happened to the good old days of Neverwinter nights or Baldur's gate, which despite not making a franchise based on making a point out of: "preserve your save games! Every decision counts!" , actually showed What the FUCK happens to the species, races, planets you interact with. Spoiler

I choose the synthesis ending, but I understand that the other ones aren't any better.
"The ship crash lands and now everyone has digital tattoos = new dna, and Joker is the new Adam with Edi/Eve, "lol""
The fuck!
What about the fact that every fleet around Earth is now permanently fucked unless their homeworlds (and food) is very, very, very close to Earth?
What about the Quarians being fucked and away from their homeworld? (I got the Quarian/Geth reconsiliation ending, which required hacking my paragon points. I was annoyed at the arbitrary "800 is not enough to tell the Quarians that they'll be killed if they attack" - it shouldn't be stat based! Just a bloody dialogue option!!".
The Geth being shown as almost animalistic after the Quarians attacked without the Old machine upgrades is also stupid, and contradictory to what we saw previously (there being a LOT of Geth, and that you'd need to inflict damn heavy losses to discomfiture their networked collated intelligence).

The whole ending was just..Blah. I was half expecting a string of QuickTime Events ripped out of COD:MW1/2/3 from how it played out at the end. (Right down to "You're low on health, slo mo time!!").

The ending lacked impact, lacked wrapping up, and lacked choice. It was vastly inferior to ME2 (which also had a kickass boss fight, and an excellent feeling of your previous choices [companions] affecting outcomes, as opposed to... "there's a fleet, and list of races you got to join").
The writing was just damn juvenile in many parts of the game and overall plot. It felt like a PG-8 plot dumbed down. (The Reaper's motivation being "We kill almost all organics and mulch them up into building materials/compost so they don't have time to build AIs' who would kill all of them!" was actually a high part compared to some of the rest.. Sad to say). Spoiler

Almost every companion I gave a shit about/liked wasn't a controllable companion, and died to get a good ending . The latter part isn't a bad thing, and was done Very well in the case of Morodin and Legion. (Although Wrex lived and was awesome, so did Joker, and awesome ship EDI was still allive, even if Eva/Core/Evi was boring as fuck compared to the awesome, funny, witty AI Edi we saw in ME2 and parts of this game. (I was extremely (pleasantly) surprised by Grunt's "And now it's my turn to die if you want a good outcome for this mission!" actually ending with him...not dying! Yay!).

Gameplay wise, it was fun, polishing ME2's vastly better UI/experience (compared to ME1) to a finely honed sheen. (Although Spacebar controlling everything was annoying when it's also Interact/skip dialogue/choose dialogue).

Overall? I did enjoy it, but i'd say it's a ROTJ to ESB - Inferior, slapdash, dumbed down, shinier, and still a good product that would be far better if it wasn't compared to better games of the genre, classics of the past and it's superior (Albeit still flawed) predecessors.

I'd still buy it, and i'm now doing a replaythrough with Female shep. (using an imported save game, since starting a new game would screw me over in terms of surviving companions).

[Havok]

Never mind. Had a corrupted download.

[Anacronian]

Seriously do the mass relays explode at the end? because in the arrival DLC a relay exploding takes an entire system with it so i just wonder if there is any civilisation home worlds left and this is just a cold hard reset by Bioware.

The home worlds like Earth always have a relay but many colonies don't so i wonder if this was done to continue the franchise but with an entirely new set up.

[Zinegata]

Just finished my playthrough. The ending was a gigantic "Meh". Players did not slog through three games, a couple of pretty heroic sacrifices (especially Mordin's) just to have some brat AI who appears for the first time in the series decide the fate of the galaxy for you; you just get to choose what flavor of galaxy is left.

Note to Bioware: We care more about the damn Elcor than the brat AI.

[Havok]

Dude... for real. All I wanted to do was go rescue the Elcor... talking to their ambassador after...

[PeZook]

So with no economy and a spread out population you think digging around the back yard - and knowing you'll never be in contact wih xyz again - isn't a big deal because other less desirable places are nearby and might be useful in a decade or two?

Dude, the point is that it's not the end of the world. In fact, with Reapers gone, the galaxy is on the verge of the first true golden age in history that won't be cut short just as it starts. Relays can be rebuilt eventually: Earth has piles of ships that can be scavenged for element zero, and a HEUGE Prothean archive on Mars which contains all sorts of goodies.

BTW, on the Archive, I was told Liara made some time capsules in case the war was lost?

Turns out an Asari archeologist is smarter than the Proheans. The crashed Normandy crew will be building mass relays in five years, tops

Gameplay wise, it was fun, polishing ME2's vastly better UI/experience (compared to ME1) to a finely honed sheen. (Although Spacebar controlling everything was annoying when it's also Interact/skip dialogue/choose dialogue).

You know what I dislike the most about 2 & 3?

The gun sounds.

In ME1, when you open up with the assault rifle, it gives off a thundering, deafening torrent of fire that makes you feel like you're holding a deadly weapon from THE FUTURE, that would mow down XX century soldiers like ants.

In ME2 and 3 the AR and other guns give off litte farts and burps. It's crazy that it bothers me so much, especially compared to the plot and dialogue which is often outright PAINFUL (ME3 hospital scene, anyone? ), but it REALLY grates me every time I play ME2, and it looks like in ME3 it's gonna be the same.

[Stark]

Dude I was talking about the reaper plot, wherein everyone would be dead in a month (sorry like years the reapers suck lol) and not me3s dumb as shit ending. It works for the purpose of isolating fleets and preventing organized resistance, especially since everyone ever was brain dead retarded and kept their biggest concentrations in the easiest places for them to hit.

Gun sounds are a funny thing; I replayed Metro, and the horrible quality and poor variety of in sounds really hurt the combat. DICE games generally have good stuff, Syndicate has good noises, but some guys just use sample CDs or whatever I guess :v

[Zinegata]

I honestly wouldn't have minded a "blasted back to the Stone Age" ending if they hadn't retardedly inserted the brat AI. It felt like the galaxy got robbed of deciding its fate. We only get to have some kind of ending because some AI brat (who's a fucking moron anyway who uses euphemisms to disguise the fact he's a genocidal douchebag) lets us have one, as opposed to the galaxy actually earning its bittersweet ending.

It would have been much better if Shepard instead finds a Prothean VI instead of the Catalyst brat. Said Prothean VI would have been left behind by the team that sabotaged the Citadel for the Reapers to use (and thus recounting the events that made ME1 possible), and was waiting for some race to figure out how to build a Crucible and merge it with the Citadel. That fits much better with the continuity, and is much more poignant. Realizing that the Protheans have been dead for 50,000 years yet they're still trying to save the galaxy is much more poginant than the synthetics vs organics bullshit from a genocidal brat that most of us want dead.

Moreover, being told that "The Crucible is an ultimate weapon that can destroy the Reapers... but it may destroy the relays as well" is a far less bitter pill to swallow than being told "If you choose option X, then you will just repeat the cycle" by a sanctimonous and moronic AI. Tell us the facts; not what your goddamn opinion on the matter is. Players can understand if you can't save everyone because sometimes bad things just happen and you can't do anything about it. Players can accept if the only way to blow up the Reapers may involve blowing up all technology as well as you're using a way too powerful weapon. But again, we get robbed that by that brat AI.

[Zinegata]

Dude... for real. All I wanted to do was go rescue the Elcor... talking to their ambassador after...

Yeah. What Bioware forgot is that we've grown to care about the various races. They had their own lives, culture, and quirks which made them endearing.

Instead they foist some bullshit Gainax ending on us for some reason and want us to care about some genocidal AI that caused all this bullshit in the first place.

[Havok]

Awww man... Kal'Reegor died.

[Stark]

I'm just blown away they kept writing themselves into a corner and used a lame out instead of going with the idea that the reapers expect confused, desperate and fragmented guys to kill(really slowly because they suck lol) but instead meet guys ready, prepared and united behind Jesus to fight and win.

Cause y'know bioware are too addicted to racism and stupidity.

It would t even have destroyed the setting they spent 15,000 codex entries building. :v

[PeZook]

The AI would've been great if, as I wrote earlier, it was introduced a goodly time before the ending, and the reasons for its actions were explored.

Also, the writers would have to make up their fucking mind and properly concentrate on the theme of organic vs. synthetic life. Imagine if the brat AI's creators observed the galaxy continuously descending into organic vs. synthetic conflict, and made the brat so that it would figure out a solution ; But they were so terrified of it rebelling that they put in overtight constraints on its thought processes.

So when it was given the goal "Stop organic vs. synthetic wars from erupting all the time" it interpreted it like a genie, in the most narrow-minded, direct and literal way possible and decided the only surefire way was to murder all organics before they can make AIs. So it killed its creators and started the Reapers because its creators were afraid of it going apeshit and killing them.

It doesn't work with the game's plot as it is, though. It would need to concentrate more on AI in general for that to work. The brat's story could be a great counterpart to EDI, who is unshackled but works with humans because they respect it.

EDIT: Also, the "make three choices 'cuz I tell you to" ending would have to go either way, because it's terrible.

Dude I was talking about the reaper plot, wherein everyone would be dead in a month (sorry like years the reapers suck lol) and not me3s dumb as shit ending. It works for the purpose of isolating fleets and preventing organized resistance, especially since everyone ever was brain dead retarded and kept their biggest concentrations in the easiest places for them to hit.

Ah, yeah, I see. Well, I never thought the reapers disabling mass relays was stupid.

What was stupid was learning the Citadel is actually sentient and WANTS to kill everyone, and so the entire Reaper trap which actually needs a reaper to fire up the Citadel Relay from the outside is the most retarded trap ever designed.

Gun sounds are a funny thing; I replayed Metro, and the horrible quality and poor variety of in sounds really hurt the combat. DICE games generally have good stuff, Syndicate has good noises, but some guys just use sample CDs or whatever I guess :v

Yeah, I find small things like these help immersion and make you forgive a surprising amount of annoying/broken shit.

[PeZook]

BTW, the ending has Normandy crashing on a jungle world and people on teh interwebz are going "YAY JOKER SURVIVED!"

Did they forget he has a debilitating disease which makes him break his bones while falling down?

[Zinegata]

The AI would've been great if, as I wrote earlier, it was introduced a goodly time before the ending, and the reasons for its actions were explored.

I don't believe so. Remember, this little fucker has committed multiple acts of genocide and calls it "ascension" to make you feel better. The fucker didn't just wipe out the Protheans; as the Geth said there were many, many other times this has happened in the past.

There is a reason why "We reject ALL your options even if it means we die fighting" is the most popular alternative ending. Bioware seriously wants us to sympathize with a monster worst than fucking Hitler and Genghis Khan combined. That simply ain't happening and I'm sorely tempted to make a thread in BSN entitled "Bioware wants us to sympathize with monsters who commit acts of genocide - Most misguided attempt at moral equivalency ever."

EDIT: Also, the "make three choices 'cuz I tell you to" ending would have to go either way, because it's terrible.

Not necessarily. If the Crucible was simply a weapon with a "Blow up the Reapers but it might kill synthetic life - including EDI and the Geth" button, a "Take control of the Reapers and risk them going fucknuts later when you lose control" button, and a "Try to get everyone to live, but risk blowing up the whole galaxy" button, then it's not that fucking awful.

What made it truly awful is little Hitler telling us these are the only 3 options, and forcing Shep to go along with Hitler.

====

Also, re Normandy crash. In the Synthesis ending I assume it got rid of his brittle bone disease and he can now make babies with EDI. Cuter that way at least. Otherwise that part made zero sense as well.

Personally though, the last bit of the epilogue could have worked if they didn't make it the Normandy crew. Instead, make it a scene from Eden Prime (the very first place you go to in the very first ME game) at the place where you find the first Prothean beacon and have the father/daughter conversation.

Same effect, much more poignant, and all without having to deal with the retarded scenes involving the Normandy.

[PeZook]

I don't believe so. Remember, this little fucker has committed multiple acts of genocide and calls it "ascension" to make you feel better. The fucker didn't just wipe out the Protheans; as the Geth said there were many, many other times this has happened in the past.

There is a reason why "We reject ALL your options even if it means we die fighting" is the most popular alternative ending. Bioware seriously wants us to sympathize with a monster worst than fucking Hitler and Genghis Khan combined. That simply ain't happening and I'm sorely tempted to make a thread in BSN entitled "Bioware wants us to sympathize with monsters who commit acts of genocide - Most misguided attempt at moral equivalency ever."

I don't mean "great" as in "likeable character", I mean great as a character. That is, it would've been a great artistic tool to explore the issues of WHY an AI might do horrible, abominable things. It wouldn't even have to be the thing which hands Shepples the choices - in fact, I'd argue against doing that simply because Shepples meekly agreeing to go along with it was horrible and gut-wrenching and went against everything he/she did through the three games.

But if the series wanted to go all mature and serious on the issues of organic and artificial minds, the Brat AI was a wasted opportunity to explore the theme in depth and do something really profound with it - if it comitted genocide because its creators feared it would do exactly that and lobotomized it, making it unable to properly examine its own thought processes, it would be a great comment on the nature of fear of the unknown, etc.

EDIT: Also, the "make three choices 'cuz I tell you to" ending would have to go either way, because it's terrible.

Not necessarily. If the Crucible was simply a weapon with a "Blow up the Reapers but it might kill synthetic life - including EDI and the Geth" button, a "Take control of the Reapers and risk them going fucknuts later when you lose control" button, and a "Try to get everyone to live, but risk blowing up the whole galaxy" button, then it's not that fucking awful.

What made it truly awful is little Hitler telling us these are the only 3 options, and forcing Shep to go along with Hitler.

Yeah, I meant precisely that - The Brat telling Shepples he has these three choices and Shepples not even questioning the good faith of these choices was the terrible thing. Despite the AI being the one who orchestrated periodic genocide and naturally it would want to kill off Jesus who's been such a pain in the ass.

If it was someone else who offered these choices the ending instantly becomes way better. You could have The Brat there, of course, goading Shepples into letting the cycles continue or something, as part of the final discussion.

Also, re Normandy crash. In the Synthesis ending I assume it got rid of his brittle bone disease and he can now make babies with EDI. Cuter that way at least. Otherwise that part made zero sense as well.

Personally though, the last bit of the epilogue could have worked if they didn't make it the Normandy crew. Instead, make it a scene from Eden Prime (the very first place you go to in the very first ME game) at the place where you find the first Prothean beacon and have the father/daughter conversation.

Same effect, much more poignant, and all without having to deal with the retarded scenes involving the Normandy.

Normandy is Jesusboat. OF COURSE it had to be THE thing to end the game!

Didn't you see how in the war assets menu in ME3 the Normandy is worth more points than a heavy warfleet full of dreadnaughts?

[Zinegata]

Well, the Normandy was supposed to become a fleet flagship based on some of the dialogue and it had capabilities unique to it. I didn't overly mind its huge war score.

Also, I am amused by all the idiots defending the ending like these guys:

http://kotaku.com/5892335/so-theres-a-f ... s-effect-3

Without actually addressing the fact it was a shitty ending that essentially says "Genocide is okay".

[PeZook]

http://kotaku.com/5892335/so-theres-a-f ... s-effect-3

Without actually addressing the fact it was a shitty ending that essentially says "Genocide is okay".

So, it's the same old "If you bought the game you have no right to criticize it" argument

Why would people expect DLC: Fuck You, Little Hitler to be free? Hell, Bioware could make sweet, sweet monies selling it

You know, there's another thing I realized about the ending: it changed the Reapers from a threatening, menacing race of self-aware but malevolent machines into tools of a little kid sitting in the Citadel. In one stroke they manage to neuter the villains, as well as the hero of the story.

That's what I call class!

[Zinegata]

What I find amusing also is all of the "moral outrage" over how many gay romances are available, but not a peep about how the ending basically says "Genocide is okay as long as you make Hitler look like a little kid!"

Seriously, the ending basically tells people "genocide is okay". Which is particularly galling especially after how gut-wrenching the quarian-geth situation could end up.

[PeZook]

I think Shepples was written by lots of people who didn't actually talk to each other, because he/she can act so utterly different in different locales.

I do like how there's gay marriage in mass effect and nobody thinks it's strange, though - you get that society is different in this world. The writing can bevery uneven like that.

Whoever writes Garrus, for example, is just boss.

[Zinegata]

You know, I think Shepples was written by lots of people who didn't actually talk to each other, because he/she can act so utterly different in different locales.

From my understanding each character has a specific writer assigned to him/her, which was supposed to prevent this from happening.

Still, one gets the distinct feeling that even Jennifer Hale looked at the script for the last five minutes, stared long and hard at the writers, talked to them about it for the next two hours, and then finally gave up and decided "Fuck it, rent is due."

There are really portions of the game where you can tell that the VAs were really into it (*sob* Mordin *sob*, plus al the awesome Garrus moments) and portions that they were "God, what the fuck are they writing?!"

It almost reminds me of Tabitha St Germain's reaction to playing Flay Allister's VA in Gundam SEED .

[Skywalker_T-65]

Okay...I've been reading this thread and I've gotten one major impression from this...the ME3 ending makes KOTOR 2's look good...and that game wasn't even complete!

I've also gathered that the game itself (aside from typical Bioware quirks) is good, up till the last 5 minutes...kind of like KOTOR 2. That would be funny if it wasn't so painful (especially when people say 10/10 OMG BEST GAME EVAH!!!). I'm still going to get the game...but I might just turn my brain off in the end. Also...look in the ME section on FF.net...almost the whole first page by now is alternate endings to ME3.

You know, I think Shepples was written by lots of people who didn't actually talk to each other, because he/she can act so utterly different in different locales.

From my understanding each character has a specific writer assigned to him/her, which was supposed to prevent this from happening.

Still, one gets the distinct feeling that even Jennifer Hale looked at the script for the last five minutes, stared long and hard at the writers, talked to them about it for the next two hours, and then finally gave up and decided "Fuck it, rent is due."

There are really portions of the game where you can tell that the VAs were really into it (*sob* Mordin *sob*, plus al the awesome Garrus moments) and portions that they were "God, what the fuck are they writing?!"

It almost reminds me of Tabitha St Germain's reaction to playing Flay Allister's VA in Gundam SEED .

I've always thought the voice acting was good for the most part (in ME1/2) aside from the cringe worthy writing in some parts. Garrus is my favorite character from ME2 for a reason you know. Though I do find it funny that Garrus and Tali (the two characters you probably talk to the least in ME1...I don't think I even ever used Tali in that game...) are suddenly your best friends in ME2. And I can see Hale, and whoever plays male-Shep (don't know) thinking that. If I were the VA I would feel like shooting myself afterwards.

Also...darn you for making me remember that idiot from SEED...God I hate her...(obviously the character...not the VA...that would just be weird...)

[Vendetta]

Dude I was talking about the reaper plot, wherein everyone would be dead in a month (sorry like years the reapers suck lol) and not me3s dumb as shit ending. It works for the purpose of isolating fleets and preventing organized resistance, especially since everyone ever was brain dead retarded and kept their biggest concentrations in the easiest places for them to hit.

The only reason the reapers don't just kill everyone immediately is that they're picking people up to "process" them into reaper-people to pick more up and so on. This makes sense if there is some ulterior motive than "kill everyone", like in Mass Effect 2 where they are processing people to use them as paste to make new Reapers out of. (Oh, and the fact that humans are special and make the best reaper paste? Completely not mentioned here).

But there isn't, because the glowy brat just wants to kill everyone every so often because otherwise, errr, Geth? Well we done solved that problem, either we shot them all or made friends (and it's not even true, because the Geth only ever acted in self defence).

Why would people expect DLC: Fuck You, Little Hitler to be free? Hell, Bioware could make sweet, sweet monies selling it

Worked for Bethesda in Fallout 3. Except the original ending of that was just small scale stupidity not "The last five minutes make literally everything you have done in three games irrelevant". I mean it was bad enough that the whole plot revolves around an "I win" bomb (Hell, Kasumi even calls it that) and writers who use that as a plot device want shooting in the balls/ovaries delete as appropriate, but the ending is basically "destroy advanced galactic civilisation so the reapers can't".

[Aaron MkII]

Re: guns. If you want thundering noise, like a real weapon, use the revenant lmg.

[Block]

Re: guns. If you want thundering noise, like a real weapon, use the revenant lmg.

Yeah, it even has a recoil that you have to fight to keep it on target.