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"The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers)

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Scrib

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-10 08:33pm

Padawan Learner

Joined: 2011-11-20 12:59am
Posts: 483

ArmorPierce wrote:

Scrib wrote:

Also, a slow zombie can somehow track a running kid back to his camp, good to know.

That's not so far fetched. If the kid just ran straight to camp in a straight line the zombie would have just shuffled toward the general direction it saw the kid running. It didn't even need to actually be looking for the kid, just get started in the direction and then just continue walking. It wasn't like it was that far away from the house.

I wasn't being sarcastic and doubting it, I was just noting it and wondering if it would be important later on.

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Col. Crackpot

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-11 10:12pm

That Obnoxious Guy

Joined: 2002-10-28 06:04pm
Posts: 9896
Location: Rhode Island

Well they are all fucked now. That was one hell of a herd of walkers...

"A mad person thinks there's a gateway to hell in his basement. A mad genius builds one and turns it on." -CaptianChewbacca

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Guardsman Bass

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-11 10:26pm

Cowardly Codfish

Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Posts: 8244
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Yep. That looked like a couple dozen Walkers at least, and probably more.

That was a good penultimate episode. Most of it was obviously build-up for the season finale, including all but shouting at us that "everybody is infected" when Randall and Shane re-animate without being bitten. I'm a bit sad that Shane is gone, since he was an interesting character, but it was inevitable considering his slide into deeper madness and volatility.

"You can't hammer tin into iron, no matter how hard you beat it, but that doesn't mean that tin is worthless."
-Jon Snow, A Game of Thrones

"I prefer my history dead. The dead sort is written in ink, the living in blood."
-Rodrik Greyjoy, A Song of Ice and Fire

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Block

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 12:02am

Jedi Council Member

Joined: 2007-08-06 02:36pm
Posts: 1840

Shane fully deserved that.

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FSTargetDrone

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 12:11am

Emperor's Hand

Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Posts: 7738
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

I don't see why one of the survivors using the scoped rifle should have any problem picking off a good chunk of the Walkers just from inside the house, but we'll see next week.

Anyway, the "everyone is infected" aspect annoys me a bit (because I'm wondering what this means for the story and where it's going), but maybe the writers will do something interesting by having the characters learn that the disease is limited to the current generation and that the newly conceived won't have the disease passed to them.

It seems clear enough that Randall was a lot more involved with and enthusiastic his own group's actions (he said something like "things get a little crazy and you (Shane) will fit right in" but it does not seem like his group is necessarily part of whatever the Governor's group is because he (Randall) said his people were camped near the road a few miles from the farm.

"We are going to clear every drop of oil off the shore" --Tony Hayward, (former) Chief Executive, BP

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Deathstalker

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 12:13am

Jedi Master

Joined: 2004-01-20 03:22am
Posts: 1497

Shane, a guy so badass, you have to kill him twice!

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Guardsman Bass

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 12:27am

Cowardly Codfish

Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Posts: 8244
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

I think Shane was definitely on the way to crazy town by the time he took Rick out into the clearing. As Rick pointed out, Shane has zero credibility at this point - if he walked back alone and said that Randall surprised and killed Rick, nobody would believe him.

As for the "everybody is infected" bit, it makes it so that you can never just hole up in an area and completely keep zombies out. You have to make sure that you smash people's heads after they die of any cause, and anything that killed a bunch of people relatively quickly (like an outbreak of disease) would start a wave of zombie attacks all over again.

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JME2

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 01:08am

Emperor's Hand

Joined: 2003-02-02 05:04pm
Posts: 11571
Location: San Francisco, CA

Guardsman Bass wrote:

And, in typical Shane fashion, it was self-fulfilling; he brought his own destruction upon himself.

FSTargetDrone wrote:

It seems clear enough that Randall was a lot more involved with and enthusiastic his own group's actions (he said something like "things get a little crazy and you (Shane) will fit right in" but it does not seem like his group is necessarily part of whatever the Governor's group is because he (Randall) said his people were camped near the road a few miles from the farm.

His remarks also completely destroyed any sympathy that might have been built up for him in the audience since Rick rescued him. Still, I don't think he's necessarily part of the Governor's group, either.

FSTargetDrone wrote:

As for the "everybody is infected" bit, it makes it so that you can never just hole up in an area and completely keep zombies out. You have to make sure that you smash people's heads after they die of any cause, and anything that killed a bunch of people relatively quickly (like an outbreak of disease) would start a wave of zombie attacks all over again.

True. And, as you pointed out, what does this mean for the unborn generation? Might Lori try to abort her pregnancy if she fears giving birth to a zombie infant?

"A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification; he can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, you become something else entirely... a legend, Mr. Wayne."

-- Ducard, Batman Begins --

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FSTargetDrone

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 01:38am

Emperor's Hand

Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Posts: 7738
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

JME2 wrote:

FSTargetDrone wrote:

True. And, as you pointed out, what does this mean for the unborn generation? Might Lori try to abort her pregnancy if she fears giving birth to a zombie infant?

That was actually Guardsman Bass' comment that you quoted but I agree with him (I said something similar earlier in the thread concerning people dying in "safe" communities). It just has to be the new norm for the survivors. It can be dealt with if they are careful. No one in any community that manages to hang on can ever let the old or sick alone. Then again these people in Rick's group still have yet to seriously implement the Buddy System and they are STILL letting Carl out of their sight. It's starting to get silly. It worked out in this case, for Rick, but come on already.

"We are going to clear every drop of oil off the shore" --Tony Hayward, (former) Chief Executive, BP

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Scrib

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 02:01am

Padawan Learner

Joined: 2011-11-20 12:59am
Posts: 483

[Reveal] Spoiler:

I don't understand, how does Dale's death change what the group felt they had to do? Seriously? The group agreed on a path and Rick just decided, out of some misplaced sentimentalism, to do something that made no logical sense. I knew from the minute that Rick put Randall back in the car two episodes ago he wouldn't kill him. Everything else was just him looking for an excuse not to do it. Not a bad thing in and of itself but at some point it becomes delusional.

Also, note how he was able to tell where his group's camp was in relation to the farm. "About five miles from here." He said. That could have been what cost him his life. If Shane was smart he would simply have run that part of the plan by Rick and pulled it off, a sting if you will, to find out how much Randall knew. He would have gotten what he wanted and wouldn't have needed to kill anybody. But at that point he just wanted to ice Rick. I feel kinda sorry for him because for all his talk he couldn't quite do it could he? Just like he couldn't kill Sophia he couldn't kill Rick. All his survivalist talk was a bullshit way to help him feel better about Otis and then it just bloomed from there. Deep down inside he wanted to believe. Honestly 'm not sure that he wasn't slightly suicidal.

I'm not sure how I feel about the classical "everyone who dies becomes a zombie" angle, but I don't think I mind. I think it's would have been awkward if that girl had killed herself. That's for sure.I find it ironic that Shane's plan might have worked simply because a zombified Rick would be more believable.

So Shane's gone. Hm. As a character I liked him because he was pragmatic and provided a counter to Rick but he was getting more and more unstable, Andrea and Darryl can fill that role just as easily with none of the murder. The problem is, of course,that Rick has declared himself leader of the group and he has Hershel on his side. And they're both idiots who don't listen to anyone. For that matter, the whole Grimes family is idiotic. But Lori takes the cake. God here's to hoping she dies.

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Guardsman Bass

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 03:38am

Cowardly Codfish

Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Posts: 8244
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Why are you spoilerizing your post? This is the spoilers thread.

FSTargetDrone wrote:

Then again these people in Rick's group still have yet to seriously implement the Buddy System and they are STILL letting Carl out of their sight. It's starting to get silly. It worked out in this case, for Rick, but come on already.

At least they're finally holing in the house, instead of those exposed tents.

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FSTargetDrone

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 03:42am

Emperor's Hand

Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Posts: 7738
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

Scrib wrote:

Also, note how he was able to tell where his group's camp was in relation to the farm. "About five miles from here." He said.

Randall was familiar with the location of the farm because he knew who Maggie was from school.

As an aside, speaking of spoilers, some people on the Walking Dead Wiki have been posting screencaps of upcoming episodes. There was an image of a zombified Shane that was posted a few weeks ago which I saw. So stay well clear of that site before the finale. There are some new ones now which I won't mention, so be warned.

"We are going to clear every drop of oil off the shore" --Tony Hayward, (former) Chief Executive, BP

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Scrib

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 04:01am

Padawan Learner

Joined: 2011-11-20 12:59am
Posts: 483

FSTargetDrone wrote:

Scrib wrote:

Also, note how he was able to tell where his group's camp was in relation to the farm. "About five miles from here." He said.

I'm aware. The point is that the group was wondering if he knew exactly where the farm was. They had decided not to take that risk and then Rick went full retard. As it turns out, he did know enough to damn them.

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Fire Fly

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 04:05am

Jedi Council Member

Joined: 2004-01-06 01:03am
Posts: 1601
Location: Grand old Badger State

Overall a great episode. Everything was just great. It seems that Lori's little speech to Shane made him go completely nuts in a way or at least that is my impression. We now know what Jim was dreaming about (or having visions of) in Season 1 Episode 5 when he was in the RV sleeping, trying to rest from his bite, and then he suddenly sits up with a terrified look on his face. And zombie Shane is terrifying; that scene had me on edges with the little tearing-of-fleshes flash. With Shane gone, the best person of the group (Dale) and the worst are now dead. I wonder how this will affect the group dynamic.

Ever wonder how a bat's brain works?
What happens if your senses are mute at an early age?

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Dread Not

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 04:39am

Padawan Learner

Joined: 2006-06-23 11:41pm
Posts: 229

Was Carl ever trained to use a gun? I assume he must have been since Rick approving of him carrying would otherwise be completely ridiculous. He also managed a perfect headshot on his first try; something Andrea had trouble with. I certainly wouldn't have been confident enough in my aim to shoot with my dad standing so close by.

Overall this was a very strong episode. The ending sequence with them wandering around in the dark was incredibly intense. I thought perhaps it would be Glenn and Darryl wandering around with the flashlight that would stir up a herd of walkers. I'm going to be looking forward to the finale all week.

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Themightytom

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 10:32am

Sith Devotee

Joined: 2007-12-22 12:11pm
Posts: 2640
Location: United States

I predict someone is going to end up trapped in the tower that Shane built. Possibly Rick and Carl since they are so far away from the house, but maybe Darryl and Glen, who look like they'd be cut off.

Darryl was already onto Shane, so was Glenn, I have no doubt Rick will be exonerated by them unless they die. What I wonder, is whether Carl was aiming for Rick or not, he had the gun out before Shane even got up.

The motor home could be an excellent escape vehicle, doesn't it have a window on dthe top that could become a hatch? fall back through the house and evacuate through a window to the roof and down into the vehicle.

Then the F@#ing thing wouldn't start and they'd be eaten.

"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon
"ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok

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Guardsman Bass

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 02:05pm

Cowardly Codfish

Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Posts: 8244
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Someone over at Westeros (and apparently the actress playing Maggie on "Talking Dead") brought up an interesting point about Shane: he may have been trying to get Rick to kill him when he took Rick into the clearing. He was obviously in a bad emotional place over Lori's final, firm rejection, and he had plenty of chances to shoot Rick even after pouring out his anger and frustration.

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spaceviking

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 02:36pm

Jedi Knight

Joined: 2008-03-20 05:54pm
Posts: 820

So if everyone is infected, think we are going to see Dale work his way out of his grave?

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Meest

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 02:40pm

Jedi Master

Joined: 2003-11-18 04:04am
Posts: 1318
Location: Toronto

^ Dale was shot in the head.

The problem I have with everyone is infected is, if that's the big whisper secret Rick heard from Jenner then how can he go forward as leader. If revealed everyone will be pissed, if he hides it, it will eat him up inside. Also makes it the whole CDC drama pretty insignificant.

Shane has terrible planning skills, walk around from afternoon or sunset to dark then end up within eye and ear shot of the farm to kill Rick? Lori goes from egging Rick to kill Shane to sorry Shane even though he still shows signs of being not a team player, in this episode she looks at him when he has a spat with Rick over Randall's fate. Would be more interesting if she was more manipulative and tried to get Shane to kill Rick with her talk.

Other than that nice episode, talk about defending the farm at least a point now. Not sure how they can fit in a zombie horde and a group of 30 into the finale so guessing the human group is all season 3 setup.

Phil Ken Sebben: Birdman, this is Dvd, our new efficiency expert.
Harvey Birdman: Interesting name. Norweg...?
Dvd: Was "David". I eliminated the vowels to save time.
Phil Ken Sebben: Brllnt!

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Revy

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 03:55pm

Jedi Knight

Joined: 2008-06-24 05:46pm
Posts: 575

If the Walkers are the product of a virus or global infection of some sort, why didn't the CDC find anything? They had a fresh sample to study but couldn't find any evidence of an infection. It can't be a virus anyway because those only work on living things (I think?), and this specifically only works on the dead.

It better bloody not be God. I will be pissed if this is some kind of divine plague.

Maybe something like the Marker from Dead Space? Ancient artefact unearthed and turned on that reanimates dead humans (they did it in Stargate as well IIRC). Gives them a nice way to fix the problem - instead of searching for a cure to some zombie disease, they just need to fight their way to the artefact and destroy it to instantly switch off all the Walkers and prevent any new ones. They could even do it as a series finale - the group have to fight their way into a military base or research lab where the thing is, and start dying off one by one until the last one left standing just manages to destroy it or hit the off button before bleeding out from their injuries. Main characters all dead but world saved for the remainder of humanity.

Don't think it'd fit with the style of the show though.

"And the writers sayeth unto the firmament: let there be a hokey plot convenience! And lo, I sayeth it shall be a curse upon Voyager, and all the people who dwell within, and they shall surely feeleth like a collection of jackasses."

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jcow79

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 03:59pm

Padawan Learner

Joined: 2004-07-21 02:39am
Posts: 442
Location: Spokane, WA

So if everyone is infected, does that mean a random bite from a zombie would not be a guaranteed zombie sentence like what is typical for many zombie universes? Assuming you didn't succumb to really bad infection, if you were able to get treated with antibiotics, would you likely be just fine?

Also, what was going on with the flashes of zombies when Shane was turning? Was that just part of the process of turning into a zombie or was it some kind of zombie telepathy with the nearby zombies?

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Guardsman Bass

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 05:18pm

Cowardly Codfish

Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Posts: 8244
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Revy wrote:

They found something, but they didn't know what it was. Dr. Jenner was studying it under a micro-scope at the end of Episode 5 in Season One.

jcow79 wrote:

Not sure. Whatever zombies are carrying in their saliva seems to be 100% lethal when they bite someone.

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JME2

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 05:25pm

Emperor's Hand

Joined: 2003-02-02 05:04pm
Posts: 11571
Location: San Francisco, CA

The other problem with the "Everyone is infected" theory is that it doesn't explain the corpses on the highway in the season premiere.

Either there's more going on with the virus, or the writers goofed and made the decision after the episode aired.

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Akhlut

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 06:12pm

Sith Devotee

Joined: 2005-09-06 02:23pm
Posts: 2641
Location: The Burger King Bathroom

Well, think of it like anthrax. Anthrax is naturally occurring over much of the globe and leads to some local infections of livestock, but isn't much of a problem most of the time.

However, in very high concentrations, it can start infecting people. So, given that whatever turns humans into zombies is probably a disease caused by an infectious agent (the CDC certainly thought as much), there are a few things to consider. Firstly, if it is airborne, then it probably has a minimum concentration to be reliably infectious; this means living people's immune systems can handle the relatively minor amount in the air and can prevent infected cells from expressing the infection, like herpes or cold sores. Secondly, people with depressed immune systems probably come down with it rather easily or express the disease rather easily, as the recently deceased in the last episode show rather well. Thirdly, being bit probably transfers enough of a load of bacteria/virus into the bloodstream as to overload the host's immune system and cause a full-blown infection.

Just my $0.02, anyway.

SDNet: Unbelievable levels of pedantry that you can't find anywhere else on the Internet!

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spaceviking

Post subject: Re: "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers

Posted: 2012-03-12 06:13pm

Jedi Knight

Joined: 2008-03-20 05:54pm
Posts: 820

Well I think the producers explained the highway dead by saying they all suffered massive head trauma, Which seems iffy.

I think a better explanation would be that the the virus can be transmitted by simply being in close proximity to zombies, zombie bites also transmit the virus but what makes them so lethal and untreatable is something else.

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