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 Post subject: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 11:37am
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So, Crusader Kings II has finally come out (fuck you, I like Paradox games), thus leading to the inevitable question: is it broken on release? I haven't been able to find anything with Google about any gameplay bugs or other broken shit (aside from an ineffective tutorial, but, hey, I've played a bunch of Paradox games, so I'll at least be able to navigate the game), so I'm wondering if you folks have heard anything about CK2 as far as if it is worth it to pick it up in the near future or if I should put it off for a year so that it can pick up all the patches and inevitable expansions to turn it into the full game.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 03:54pm
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It's actually very good. Haven't encountered any major bugs (or any, for that matter) in all my weeks of playing. Reviews and player responses have been universally positive as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 04:06pm
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Works fine here too. I haven't had any issues.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 04:26pm
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Consider downloading the demo. You can play as any country in September 1066 for 20 years. Edit - you're technically only allowed to pick from 4 countries, but if you select another country while the game is loading, it'll switch you to that country. :lol:

There's no game-breaking bugs in the release version along the lines of Hearts of Iron 1's "game always freezes on December 11 1941" or Victoria 1's "build 1 factory and break the world market," so in that respect it's probably their best launch to date. There are bugs, though, like the "Plot" system being incomplete, but it's nothing particularly glaring. It does seem to run a lot more smoothly than any of the other games made with the EU3 engine.

Also, this game has quite possibly the absolute worst UI of any Paradox title yet made. Just about every aspect of the interface is more confusing and more obtuse than CK1. Just as an example, in CK1, you could find out the line of succession for any character or country by clicking on the relevant character's portrait and looking at the menu. In CK2, said character screen only shows you your immediate heir, while you have to go to the country menu to find out your top 3 successors. In other words, you could be 4th in line to inherit the entire world and the only way to know that is to pick through family trees and figure it out on your own.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 05:02pm
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I actually like the new UI better, the addition of a back button is really handy when you need to look through the same section over again. Additionally matrilineal marriages make it to where having a female successor isn't a game ending scenario, just inconvenient.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 05:17pm
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General Schatten wrote:
I actually like the new UI better, the addition of a back button is really handy when you need to look through the same section over again. Additionally matrilineal marriages make it to where having a female successor isn't a game ending scenario, just inconvenient.


Actually, there is a Back button in CK1.

I'm also fairly certain women couldn't inherit in CK1, so there was no chance of that problem, except in the handful of countries (I think Tuscany and Brittany in 1066 scenario) where they start out as rulers.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 05:35pm
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One other annoyance is that the UI gets way too clattered when there's too much action. When I last was the Holy Roman Emperor and three quarters of the empire rose in revolt against my tyranny, I had to start moving popups so that I could actually see the map and order my armies around. And I second TC pilot's point about inheritance. Searching for the people you have to assassinate in order to inherit is more difficult than it should.

The game is solid though. There are some issues with the mechanics, some with the AI, but it's probably the most complete paradox release yet. And the stories that emerge from the decadent nobility of the time are pretty awesome, even without your input to help them along.

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 05:41pm
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Sounds much better than I was expecting. I was hoping it wasn't going to be the horrible morass that HoI3's launch was (that was bad enough that I'm considering never buying that one) and it sounds like it kept a lot of the good parts of CK1 (except having all the heirs in one place, inexplicably) while expanding on it quite substantially. I've read in the Paradox forums about entire nations converting to heresies (I've read about Bogumils taking hold in the Byzantine Empire, and the Druze taking hold of Egypt), while the enlarged map looks spectacular.

So, now when I get the $40, I'm going to have to purchase it by the sounds of things.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 05:56pm
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I had a playthrough as the Komnenos where an Emperor turned iconoclast and started to systematically purge the nobility... then I assassinated him. *moustache twirl*

So don't go into the game expecting much historical accuracy. Once the game starts any sort of historical framework is tossed out the window. The French almost always invade Iberia to take on the Moors, King Harold usually beats back the Vikings/Normans, and the Byzantines always crush the Turks.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 06:07pm
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Not always. In both of my game the Byzantines had a backbreaking civil war every few years, with each one resulting in either the seljuks grabbing a few more provinces, or some part of the balkans declaring independence. On my first game as the doux of Nikaea Constantinople was sieged every other decade, and it'd have fallen a couple times if I hadn't suicided my armies to reduce the besiegers, while on my current, Brandenburg, one the Seljuks control half of Anatolia by the 1200s. Iberia became solidly christian both times though.

Haven't seen any major heresies taking hold yet. But I've had quite a few spiritual advisors turn heretic and ask me to convert too, so I can see how it can happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 06:47pm
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I'm the regent of france, but I can't do anything like call an its lords to war. Is regent just a meaningless title?



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 07:35pm
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I think so. I wasn't restricted in any way when some random vassal was appointed regent after my Kaiser suffered a blow to the head and became incapable.

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 07:41pm
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Beyond exposing their ahistorical mechanics, isn't this the right approach to take for a game like this? The attempts to railroad you to history through events or limitations and shit were never very good.



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-23 09:43pm
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I don't think it's really a problem, especially since you can choose to start at any date between 1066 and 1337, so if you have some particular country or monarch you're interested in, you can jump directly into that spot. Though I've found it can be annoying that in some instances (especially the early Byzantine Empire) it's simply impossible to replicate history.

It's almost like the devs created some alt-history for the game, since early in each game you can generally count on things going the same way: France will invade Iberia, the Byzantines will beat the Turks (unless the emperor dies, then it's a civil war 99.9% of the time), the HRE will go crusading on the Baltic coast, etc. Which is funny, because in most respects everything's random (which can produce some hilarious results, like in one playthrough my heir being homosexual, then when I reload the game he's... not), so the further you get in the game, the chance of having the same game experience drops down to some number approaching 0.



"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-24 01:41am
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I don't think its bad at all, beyond the way it shows their mechanics consistently produce ahistorical outcomes. Since you can still use any faction you want and then go on to do whatever you want, its probably better than the half-assed 'historical event now happens' method.



Elfdart wrote:
my first manager and I spent the better part of an hour in his office asking an insanely hot female employee to go through the "B" authors in the Lit section. Why? Because that would make her climb up on the ladder right where the security camera was and gave us a perfect view of her perfect gazongas
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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-24 02:27am
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That used to piss me off to no end in EU2. "So, your Poland broke the Sejm when the event fired, dealt with the 20 years of stability and revolt problems, wiped out Russia, absorbed Prussia, and is allied with Austria. But hey, it's time for the Deluge!"



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-24 05:47am
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So, I've downloaded the demo and I've noticed a funky thing happening. I'm not sure if it is due to A) my computer, B) the demo just being shitty, or C) possible graphics issues with the game itself (I really doubt it is C, though).

Anyway, the most annoying thing is that the borders (the hashed red and white ones) blink in and out when I move my cursor across the map. Is that a problem you guys have had and can resolve or am I going to have to simply go to the Paradox Forums and ask the developers about this shit instead



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-24 06:52am
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Akhlut wrote:
So, I've downloaded the demo and I've noticed a funky thing happening. I'm not sure if it is due to A) my computer, B) the demo just being shitty, or C) possible graphics issues with the game itself (I really doubt it is C, though).

Anyway, the most annoying thing is that the borders (the hashed red and white ones) blink in and out when I move my cursor across the map. Is that a problem you guys have had and can resolve or am I going to have to simply go to the Paradox Forums and ask the developers about this shit instead


I think it's been fixed by now. I also think it's your graphics card - I've never encountered that problem in either the demo or the full game.

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-24 11:01pm
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That graphics issue sounds like something on your end, sadly. I didn't encounter it in either the demo or the full game.

Oh, and I forgot to mention before... multiplayer basically doesn't work (CK1 was horrendous, but not broken), because you can't use saved games.



"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-26 10:39pm
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Not even saved MP games?



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-27 12:20am
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Actually, it turns out they fixed it. A friend of mine (same one who said it was broken) played for three hours straight today. Usually, multiplayer on Paradox games require you to spend at least a half hour sorting out connection issues, and another half hour rehosting for crashed players. This group made only one person who crashed (infrequently) and they were able to start without problems.



"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-27 01:51am
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Ah, great. I've gotten a few friends hooked, and they were very disappointed when I echoed that multi is broken. Now they'll be clamouring for a game, to settle once and for all who the best plotter is. (me)

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-29 06:22am
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Love this game.

Playing as Ulster, started my conquest of Ireland. Unfortunately, my character died but not before he was able to declare himself Duke of Ulster and produce an heir. The child ruler made controlling my domain very difficult, but I was able to survive repeated assassination attempts before discovering my uncles plot and throwing his jealous ass in jail.

From there I consolidated my control over Ireland. Captured the rest of the Irish duchies and crowned myself King after about 20 years. Managed to beat back an attempt by the Duke of Moray to conquer my Kingdom with the assistance of my wife, a French duchess. Only problem is, I fell in love with her and we've been humping like rabbits, got way too many sons and not enough land to spread around to all of them. Trying to conquer Wales in order to get more land but my Spymaster hasn't been able to fabricate a claim yet.

Funny story, I initially married a Persian princess for the lulz, and had a few kids with her. Unfortunately, I noticed that the kids had inherited their mothers culture and name instead of mine, which would have ended my game had I let it continue. Not only that, but my only son from the Persian princess was a dwarf. Had to get permission from the pope for a divorce, assassinate my own son and then marry the French duchess.

Damn this game makes you evil :) .

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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-29 01:41pm
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So, you murdered your son who had a congenital birth defect? That's cold. :lol:

I am looking forward to getting employed so I can either upgrade my computer or just get a new laptop and playing it. Seems good that Paradox has finally released a game that isn't completely fucked on release. :D



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 Post subject: Re: Crusader Kings II? PostPosted: 2012-02-29 03:05pm
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Been playin through the demo. Its definitely a lot to take in at first, but seems very interesting. I know that some enterprising people had made a game of thrones/westeros mod for the original and hopefully the same eventually happens for CK2. This game would seem tailor made for such a world.

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