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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)


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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-02-23 05:05am
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Well one implies that the Old Republic was around for 20,000-25,000 years while one states it has stood for 1000 years. That's a pretty big gap to reconcile.

Although I swore Obi-Wan says "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy" not Old Republic...



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-02-23 06:29am
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Havok wrote:
Well one implies that the Old Republic was around for 20,000-25,000 years while one states it has stood for 1000 years. That's a pretty big gap to reconcile.


It is, but does it really affect someone's movie experience? And simply saying that "this one is a faulty number because it feels wrong" isn't really that useful (you didn't say so or imply so, just to make it clear).

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Although I swore Obi-Wan says "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy" not Old Republic...


I'm pretty sure that he was talking about the Old Republic. I haven't watched ANH in some time, though, I could be wrong.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-02-23 07:09am
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Tiriol wrote:
Havok wrote:
Well one implies that the Old Republic was around for 20,000-25,000 years while one states it has stood for 1000 years. That's a pretty big gap to reconcile.


It is, but does it really affect someone's movie experience? And simply saying that "this one is a faulty number because it feels wrong" isn't really that useful (you didn't say so or imply so, just to make it clear).

Does it mess up the experience... no. However as we are in the midst of a chronological reissue of the movies in 3D, the two conflicting numbers go from being uttered 36 years apart and in the first movie and the 2nd to last, to being said only 2 years apart in the 2nd and 4th movie.

Like I said, it is something that raises questions. And you know me; if I am questioning it, you know the EU fans are going to be all over it.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-02-25 01:24am
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Lord Pounder wrote:
Ire wrote:
The Star Wars universe is more advanced then our own, how is it that unbelievable they had better ways of recording history? Even the earliest eras had some form of records.

And you also neglect the Ruusan Reformation which explains the thousand year line.


Care to name these methods? This is a civilisation that "forgot" how awesome uber Jedi were within about 10 years of them being wiped.

Ire, do you wipe your cum stained EU wankfest comics after use or do you do the civilised thing and use a Kleenex?


Hey fuckwit, the Empire suppressed most of the information about the Jedi and either censored or destroyed most of anything that didn't have an Imperial spin

Also lol "civilisation"
Havok wrote:
Well one implies that the Old Republic was around for 20,000-25,000 years while one states it has stood for 1000 years. That's a pretty big gap to reconcile.

Although I swore Obi-Wan says "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy" not Old Republic...


Once again is why we have the Ruusan Reformation :angelic:

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-02-25 10:38pm
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Suppression I can actually understand, however the Jedi would have been all over the news casts during the clone wars yet by the time of A New Hope Jedi are dismissed as practitioners of a hokey old religion.

That's not suppression of information, you ignorant cum stain, that's galaxy wide mass amnesia.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-02-25 11:32pm
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Hey fuckwit, I don't give two fucks about this Russian Formation... it's EU garbage.

I care about the movies and what is said in them.

Samurai haven't even existed for like 250 years and people idolize and know EVERYTHING about them... and that isn't even talking about JAPAN.

You think the Empire can just "suppress" TRILLIONS of memories of the Jedi in 30 fucking years? This is why you are an idiot and people like you are why they can successfully peddle the EU garbage they do.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-03-20 11:21pm
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Lord Pounder wrote:
Suppression I can actually understand, however the Jedi would have been all over the news casts during the clone wars yet by the time of A New Hope Jedi are dismissed as practitioners of a hokey old religion.

That's not suppression of information, you ignorant cum stain, that's galaxy wide mass amnesia.


The line still fails even if you toss out the prequels. If we stick with the facts as of Hope:
1) Anakin and Vader are separate people
2) Vader kills Anakin at some point
3) Luke is an orphan of no significance

The destruction of the Jedi would still be within living memory. Even if it took years to stamp them out and Anakin was among the last killed, this ain't the 18th century where a legendary group of warrior-monks and their abilities is passed down in written accounts. And Jedi abilities aren't just mind tricks that are easy to hoax on camera. Jedi are capable of doing things that should be impossible. To deny belief in the existence of Jedi powers isn't like questioning the real abilities of historic ninja, it's more like denying the existence of the dodo or saying that the moon landing didn't hapen.

If some dude in the here and now tells me he's a Druid, I'm going to laugh in his face. If he's able to raise a hand and make me choke, I won't say it's because he's a druid but I will say I have no idea how the hell he's doing it and I'm fucking terrified.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-03-20 11:35pm
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Havok wrote:
You think the Empire can just "suppress" TRILLIONS of memories of the Jedi in 30 fucking years? This is why you are an idiot and people like you are why they can successfully peddle the EU garbage they do.


It was never made precisely clear what the Force is to the common citizen.

Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Does the Jedi follow a religion or a code? Shaolin monks, certainly one of the inspirations for the Jedi, we could call that a religion. Bushido for the samurai? It operates within the same mythological constructs as Zen Buddhism and Shinto but I don't know if it in itself constitutes a religion.

Regardless, we do have plenty of examples in our own world of governments trying to stamp out religions and superstitions. China's had a miserable time with the Tibetans and the Falun Gong. The Soviets tried to stamp out Christianity but we still have the Russian Orthodox Church. People kept the faith despite several generations of official suppression.

Perhaps Imperial propaganda tried to explain away Jedi abilities as tricks and artifice rather than actually drawing upon an energy field existing throughout the universe and all matter. Maybe the accusation is that they're using advanced technology to simulate the appearance of magic to con the rubes.

You might explain Han's skepticism as sheer ignorance like denying the moon landing but we also have the example of the imperial officer mocking Vader to his face as if he's never seen the Sith choke a bitch before.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-03-31 08:05pm
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Lord Pounder wrote:
I'm not saying they aren't official or licensed, but Lucas would put the star wars brand on wet shit and fanboys would gobble it up with glee. In fact that happened from what I could make of Karen Travis's work. Maybe it's because I'm a purist, maybe I'm off a certain generation but the EU, especially post Prequel EU has been almost universally poor, some of those authors expect you to believe that a Galactic Army composed of 1,000,000 clones, then they spent too many novels justifying this number. Those assholes expect you to believe that China has a larger army than the Galactic Republic, and don't get me started on the Mando-wank or Windu-wank. But Bio-wank just takes the cake for me. The Vong were the single worst idea I've came across in my life. At parts it was well done but in general it insulted my intelligence and went back and basically shat a huge turd on the Bantam-era EU which I mostly liked.


To be fair, only Karen Traviss believed there were only 1 million clones. Just so you know, she was shown the "Star Wars Door" personally by George Lucas after she got into a fit when Georgie crapped all over her Clone War and Legacy of the Force Mandalorians.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-01 10:54am
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Havok wrote:
You think the Empire can just "suppress" TRILLIONS of memories of the Jedi in 30 fucking years? This is why you are an idiot and people like you are why they can successfully peddle the EU garbage they do.

Given the lifespan of some of alien species in Star Wars plus how common picture phones are in first-world nations today plus the library of literally thousands of years of audio-video media spread across millions of planets much less space habits, star ships, probes and droids; there must be tremendous amounts of personal, eye-witness accounts of the Jedi and their dealings/abilities. Erasing that much cultural inertia galaxy-wide would require an effort in personal and attention that would likely dwarf the resources needed to build the Imperial Fleet and the Death Stars. It is one of the weakest claims made by the films and nearly breaks SoD when thought about.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-06 01:02pm
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Wait George Lucas himself told her to get out?



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-06 03:19pm
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Lord Pounder wrote:
Ire wrote:
The Star Wars universe is more advanced then our own, how is it that unbelievable they had better ways of recording history? Even the earliest eras had some form of records.

And you also neglect the Ruusan Reformation which explains the thousand year line.


Care to name these methods? This is a civilisation that "forgot" how awesome uber Jedi were within about 10 years of them being wiped.

Ire, do you wipe your cum stained EU wankfest comics after use or do you do the civilised thing and use a Kleenex?


Are you seriously claiming the Jedi were just forgotten after 10 years? You don't think it had ANYTHING to do with the authoritarian government controlled by the Sith repressing knowledge? I mean they weren't even... we're just riding along on this fantasy of yours, it was maybe half an hour into A New Hope before Obi Wan started to relay oral history from before the purge, and Yoda's 800 fucking years old but suuuuuure knowledge is lost after ten years. Ire you better get right on answering that little ultimatum :wanker:




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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-11 02:02am
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Havok wrote:
Samurai haven't even existed for like 250 years and people idolize and know EVERYTHING about them... and that isn't even talking about JAPAN.



only because you brought it up, during the Meiji and Taisho military regimes in Japan, the Samurai ideology was banned. Even talking about about the Samurai or keeping Samurai weapons and armor were illegal.

I don't see why Palpatine would not do something similar against the Jedi. If you have a generation brought up with no history of the Jedi and no one ever talking about them you would believe they were members of a hokey religion. As for the people who had first hand knowledge of what the Jedi actually were, we call them members of the Rebel Alliance.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-11 03:21am
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And yet, even though they were banned from being talked about, their mythology not only didn't go anywhere, it grew.

And are you insinuating that only members of the Rebel Alliance remember or knew Jedi or thought they were good? :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-12 03:00am
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Havok wrote:
And yet, even though they were banned from being talked about, their mythology not only didn't go anywhere, it grew.

And are you insinuating that only members of the Rebel Alliance remember or knew Jedi or thought they were good? :lol:


All I was insinuating ::shifty eyes:: was that the ones who remember the Jedi for what they were and did something joined the Rebel Alliance.

I know you don't follow/like the EU, but by the time the Imperial Remnant finally signed an end to conflict treaty with the Alliance ~35 years passed since the Emperors death. The problem for Luke's New Jedi Order was not that people forgot what the Jedi were, it really is the opposite. The generation that is now in power was brought up in a galaxy that saw Jedi and Sith constantly going at it. People tend to forget what someone did years ago, all they care about is "What can you do for me now".

I don't know how we got onto Luke's New Jedi Order when the thread was about the Dawn of the Je'daii, but there you go :D



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-12 02:36pm
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The Jedi would have been subjected to a debunking claim, and most people hadn't seen a jedi ever (there are 10000 in AOTC and lets face it in a galaxy of trillions thats small potatoes). So I can see why many wouldn't believe. Many people are ignorant and refuse to believe anything their eyes don't show.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-12 02:36pm
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The Jedi would have been subjected to a debunking claim, and most people hadn't seen a jedi ever (there are 10000 in AOTC and lets face it in a galaxy of trillions thats small potatoes). So I can see why many wouldn't believe. Many people are ignorant and refuse to believe anything their eyes don't show.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-14 04:27pm
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Is it just me, or does everything thread somehow devolve from its original topic and become a EU vs Movie Purist argument? I'm kind of sick of hearing it. If you don't like EU, DON'T FUCKING READ IT. That simple really. Shouldn't be any arguments or discussions, because those that do not like the EU won't know what they are talking about and wouldn't want to talk about it in the first place. Those that do like EU can then have their own little game in the corner so as not to disturb the people that dislike the EU.

It. Is. That. Simple. Let. It. Fucking. Die. Already.

Back to main topic:

I think so far that the Dawn of the Jedi series is pretty awesome. I like that they are going into detail about the rise of the Rakata and even to the very creation of the Jedi. I hope to see some more information regarding the Celestials and maybe some information regarding The Ones who are somehow suppose to be avatars or embodiments of the Force. I like the old Jedi philosophy that they have created, by combining the two opposing forces into a balanced one. Reminded me of Avatar the Last Airbender in that effect.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they create the pivotal character that will ultimately become the leader of the Dark Side/Bogan forces that will cause the Force Wars, or at least lead to that divide. It's a topic that has never been given much detail, even in the sourcebooks.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-14 04:57pm
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Abacus wrote:

I'm looking forward to seeing how they create the pivotal character that will ultimately become the leader of the Dark Side/Bogan forces that will cause the Force Wars, or at least lead to that divide. It's a topic that has never been given much detail, even in the sourcebooks.


I'm betting Xesh might be the cause seeing how his approach to Tython was treated as a important event

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-14 05:18pm
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Ire wrote:

I'm betting Xesh might be the cause seeing how his approach to Tython was treated as a important event


True, but I'm thinking that because Xesh is an outsider (I am presuming that he was not a Je'dii before he became a Hound) that it won't cause as much a rift than if one of the Je'dii themselves fell totally into the Dark Side. Maybe Xesh trains the person that does fall?



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-14 05:21pm
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It's either him or Daegen Lok since he also had a vision of Xesh

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-04-14 05:41pm
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Edit: Sense the the fact that he had the vision implies he also has a role at some point

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-05-06 01:56pm
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Themightytom wrote:
Lord Pounder wrote:
Ire wrote:
The Star Wars universe is more advanced then our own, how is it that unbelievable they had better ways of recording history? Even the earliest eras had some form of records.

And you also neglect the Ruusan Reformation which explains the thousand year line.


Care to name these methods? This is a civilisation that "forgot" how awesome uber Jedi were within about 10 years of them being wiped.

Ire, do you wipe your cum stained EU wankfest comics after use or do you do the civilised thing and use a Kleenex?


Are you seriously claiming the Jedi were just forgotten after 10 years? You don't think it had ANYTHING to do with the authoritarian government controlled by the Sith repressing knowledge? I mean they weren't even... we're just riding along on this fantasy of yours, it was maybe half an hour into A New Hope before Obi Wan started to relay oral history from before the purge, and Yoda's 800 fucking years old but suuuuuure knowledge is lost after ten years. Ire you better get right on answering that little ultimatum :wanker:

I didn't imply they were merely forgotten after ten years, Imperial propaganda and alteration and destruction of records etc obviously had a role. I think we simply had an error in communication, or I made a mistake somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-05-07 06:46am
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If the Chinese government can completely erase the Tienanmen Square incident from modern Chinese history less than twenty years after the fact (meaning anyone born from 1989+ has no clue what happened) then I expect the Galactic Empire could just as easily erase the Jedi Order to all but an old boogie man story to scary Imp kids before going to bed.



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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of the Jedi thread PostPosted: 2012-05-08 07:58pm
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Abacus wrote:
If the Chinese government can completely erase the Tienanmen Square incident from modern Chinese history less than twenty years after the fact (meaning anyone born from 1989+ has no clue what happened) then I expect the Galactic Empire could just as easily erase the Jedi Order to all but an old boogie man story to scary Imp kids before going to bed.

You're an idiot.

You are comparing a single isolated incident on one day, in one country, on one planet to literally millions of accounts for over 10,000 years in an entire civilized galaxy.

Come the fuck on.



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