So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

GEC: Discuss gaming, computers and electronics and venture into the bizarre world of STGODs.

Moderator: Thanas

User avatar
noncredible
Padawan Learner
Posts: 219
Joined: 2010-02-20 12:03am
Location: Behind you.

So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by noncredible »

A couple days ago, I got Tropico 4, and I must say, it it amazing. It's like a combination of Emperor and The Sims. As a bonus, it even runs under Wine (I'm running Linux Mint 12), with perfect graphics, audio, and all, which saves me the trouble of having to run Windows in Virtualbox.

The only annoying thing is the controls. I hate how you can't use the arrow keys to move around the map, as that's what I'm used to doing in Emperor and Age of Empires. Is there any way to change this?
"Everything in this room is edible. Even I'm edible. But, that would be called cannibalism. It is looked down upon in most societies."
— Roald Dahl, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

"And, if you should come upon this spot, please do not hurry on. Wait for a time, exactly under the star. Then, if a little man appears who laughs, who has golden hair and who refuses to answer questions, you will know who he is. If this should happen, please comfort me. Send me word that he has come back."
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince
User avatar
PeZook
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13237
Joined: 2002-07-18 06:08pm
Location: Poland

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by PeZook »

Did they at all improve how information is presented?

Is it still trivially easy to win and get infinite monies?
Image
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

They added more things you have to do to avoid losing elections, that's for sure. elections were useless in 3, but now you have to do side quests to avoid instant death.

And I like moving the camera with left stick. :v
User avatar
PeZook
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13237
Joined: 2002-07-18 06:08pm
Location: Poland

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by PeZook »

It took me all of two tries to figure out 3 and I never lost an election ever after that, because infinite money = ability to cater to everyone, so it would be good if free elections caused more headaches to El Presidente :)
Image
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

Instantly failing is still shit. The structure of the game just doesn't lend itself toward losing states; you're either winning, or you're winning slowly, or you instantly die.

And the manual is absolutely terrible; written in random order by someone who has never played.
User avatar
PeZook
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13237
Joined: 2002-07-18 06:08pm
Location: Poland

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by PeZook »

...

So it's literally instant death, instead of making you spend monies on opression and abuse to stay in power?

Well, yeah, this sucks.
Image
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

Well yeah if you lose an election it's game over. In T3 it was impossible to lose unless you were an idiot. I think they tried t add difficulty a stupid way instead door fixing the economy and social mechanics.
User avatar
PeZook
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13237
Joined: 2002-07-18 06:08pm
Location: Poland

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by PeZook »

Yeah...I liked what they were trying to do with 3 (different social groups having different demands, the possibility to fuck with election results in different, gradually more and more blatant ways...). It would've been great if it wasn't so easy to just placate everyone.
Image
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
User avatar
Purple
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5233
Joined: 2010-04-20 08:31am
Location: In a purple cube orbiting this planet. Hijacking satellites for an internet connection.

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Purple »

How does it compare to the original Tropico? Can you still simply not hold elections at all and keep the people under your boot like a good dictator?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
Block
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2333
Joined: 2007-08-06 02:36pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Block »

Purple wrote:How does it compare to the original Tropico? Can you still simply not hold elections at all and keep the people under your boot like a good dictator?
Yes, though people run off to the jungle and rebel. It depends on the traits you take for your avatar though, certain bonuses come with high democracy expectations.
User avatar
noncredible
Padawan Learner
Posts: 219
Joined: 2010-02-20 12:03am
Location: Behind you.

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by noncredible »

I've never played any of the earlier Tropicos, so I can't compare. And speaking of infinite money, I haven't used Cheat Engine (GameConqueror, actually) in quite a while...
"Everything in this room is edible. Even I'm edible. But, that would be called cannibalism. It is looked down upon in most societies."
— Roald Dahl, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

"And, if you should come upon this spot, please do not hurry on. Wait for a time, exactly under the star. Then, if a little man appears who laughs, who has golden hair and who refuses to answer questions, you will know who he is. If this should happen, please comfort me. Send me word that he has come back."
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

Nobody's talking about cheating, dumbass; Tropico 3 was just amazingly easy to break the economy and have endless money (and thus no problems ever). Tropico 4 introduces more mechanics to try to make it harder to make money and forcing you to spend money on more things, but it only really impacts early on (where people in 1951 in a third-world country of 30 people will complain about living too close to a fucking farm) and later you still have infinite money.

They've slightly changed how information is presented, but it still sucks. I have no idea (for instance) why the thousands of units of smoked beef produced by my ranches is all consumed locally instead of exported, and there appears to be no way to find out/stop it.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Thanas »

Tropico 4 campaign is much improved, though. But once you played one Island to fullness it is pretty much it. Not much replay value.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

I'm in 1972 in a 50 year sandbox and I'm pretty much done with the game too. I have unlimited money, win elections with 90%, etc. The only problems are from Tropico 3; things like 'construction guys totally useless' and 'teamsters can't pathfind for shit' and 'tourism is utterly broken and too profitable'.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Thanas »

I don't know about tourism being broken....I find my hotels are not getting full enough despite me building all attractions. I think rum and cigars are far more profitable (and diamond cutting jewelry IS insanely broken).

ITA on the other problems though.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

I routinely have to quick-build anything time-critical because it can take literally years for a farm to be built by the four construction teams I have running. A massive network of roads, garages, marketplaces etc doesn't improve this much.

And yeah, cigars are hells broken. One factory + 3 farms = 100k a boat. I've had two events for 'free factory' so I'm running 3 factories with 10 tobacco farms and its just ridiculous.

I'm kind of sad that the game seems more politicised than the first one; Moscow University is significantly inferior to Harvard, Intellectuals are all democratic, manufacturing arms is bad, etc. Lame.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Thanas »

Manufacturing arms is pretty profitable though and no big power really seams to give a damn.

And I quick built everything except corn farms and stuff at the beginning of the game. It just is not worth it once you got your first factory up as the cash starts flowing and you (IMO) lose more by construction workers inaction than by shelling out for quick build. What good is my rum destillery when it takes it two years to build? I lose more by lost earnings in that period.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

When I set up my huge tourism thing I quickbuilt everything. Once you're above 80-100k a boat in exports it might even be worth destroying the construction guys entirely, since they're so useless. Most of the buildings you need a lot of aren't expensive anyway (like apartments, substations, basic amenities).
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Thanas »

Yeah, but I keep them around just to keep the uneducated proles in work and happy.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

Speaking of which, all of my education structures are almost totally unused. I keep a few teachers and professors employed, but almost nobody goes there anymore. That said, I'm pretty sure 75% of the populaton is working uneducated jobs. :V
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Thanas »

Hmmm. I got a similar problem once all factory spots are filled. But then again the overpopulation gets pretty lol in later stages.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

In about year 3 or 4 I had some massive immigration spike (I think I went from 90 guys to 210 guys in two years) and early on with all the added costs for pollution etc it was a bit of a stretch trying to build enough housing and give everyone jobs (because god knows governments only work with cash on hand :V)... but of course after all the farms and factories were onstream by year 6-7 it was time to waste money buying shit for acheivements. Giant theme park that will take about 10 years to repay its cost? HELL YES WHY NOT!

Adding in the visible stock areas to buildings was a nice idea, but it just highlights how fucked up their person AI is. Oh look, every teamster in the country has gone to the pub/church/hospital at the same time! NO EXPORTS FOR LIKE 3 MONTHS. :V
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Thanas »

Another ridiculous things is that at some times, important buildings like churches and hospitals seem a bit empty once demand is met.

But who cares, money is so easy to get that the last 10 years of building activity is usually reserved for plastering the island with parks and building a Giant El-Presidente memorial ground with Mausoleum, statue etc that takes a quarter of the map. Because there is nothing else to do in the last thirty years of the sandbox.

I usually just build 30 pubs or cabaret for shits and giggles and then have my character visit everything because I am so utterly bored.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by Stark »

I think each little man's needs decay over time, so when guys 'religion' bar is low they get cross if there's no church, but churches just act to 'fill up' their 'religion' bar, which then decays again over time.

The net result seems to be what you say - you build a church/pub/hospital/whatever and everyone in the fucking country files through to fill up their relevant bar and then doesn't need to go back for several years, making the buildings pretty useless much of the time. I turned all my churches etc down to half-staff to save money... even though its unnecessary.

And garbage dumps are a really crap way to work with pollution. I'd say 'garbage truck base' instead but they'd probably forget to ever drive around and pick up garbage, being stuck in the casino instead.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: So I Got Tropico 4 a Couple Days Ago...

Post by MKSheppard »

PeZook wrote:So it's literally instant death, instead of making you spend monies on opression and abuse to stay in power?

Well, yeah, this sucks.
Or even more amusingly, getting thrown out of power; and then being able to fight/murder your way back in via a guerilla campaign.

Or...how about this for a shocking gameplay mechanic for Tropico 5. You...are not El Presidente at the start. You are Fidel Shroomstro in the jungles. Something like JA2, but less FN SCAR-L+NVGs but more about the dynamics of running a guerilla campaign than headshotting peeps.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Post Reply