Homebrew tabletop game system thread the II

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

What about Advantages? Things like buying followers or, as mentioned, sharpening the "supernatural awareness" ability? 4 XP per AP-worth of skill, or something else?


Also, okay, worked it out:

1 pt: Increase Animal Handling from 9 to 10: to pay for the mule, so to speak.
0.5 pts: Increase Riding from 5 to 6
1 pt: Increase Oratory from 6 to 7
1 pt: Increase Persuasion from 12 to 13
1 pt: Increase Human Perception from 8 to 9
1.5 pts: Increase Politics from baseline of 3 to 6: baptism by total immersion!

Two points still in reserve, I don't know what to do with them yet. Candidates include Resist Persuasion, boosts to magic, further boost to politics (up to 6 would be half a point, beyond that it's 1 XP per point gained though)... [thinks][/quote]

[Kaelan]

Larric nods. "Have fun-" a strange quirk hits the corner of his mouth- "Do something I wouldn't do."

I’ll Try.

OK – william’s actions whilst the rest of the party are getting back together \ talking about Radulf. He is going to attempt most of this via talking\eavesdropping to his fellow Men at Arms, servants, and anybody else he thinks is worthwhile. When he gets the chance he will start to hit the local taverns to further this knowledge gathering. He’s after the following information.

1. Who and what are the strengths of the 8 fractions vying for the barony. Political in part, but more importantly military.

2. The old Baron is missing \ presumed dead. Where did he die. If he fled to a secure location prior to the twentieth cresting the hill does anybody know where he went, and has anybody tried to find him – alive or dead.

3. Out of the fractions fighting for control, who wants the baron dead and out of the way, and who would like him back. This will at least let us know which groups the camps are currently in.
With the amount the nobility were thinned out during the recent conflict the result means that there is a limited opening for ‘new’ blood to enter the ranks. William want to be wealthy, but he also wants to be in a position where is wealth can’t be easily taken away from him. He also has no love of the nobility from Carfax as he is in exile from there.

He is seeing if he can identify a ‘lower’ member in the power struggle, not so much a person who is looking to make large gains from the chaos but is looking to maintain what they have. The goal is to look for a potential in and get himself ‘ennobled’ to the rank of knight. Crossing the threshold is the first task at hand.
If tracking down the baron is a way to do it, then so be it. The potential to bring peace and limited order back to the land is a fringe benefit. Even if all that can be found is a corpse, at least the trappings may still be there (signet ring, sword, seal etc) which can be used to boost the ‘public’ claim to rightful rulership. At least they could be used as evidence that the old man is dead. If he is dead finding out how he died could also cast further light on the disputing fractions.

On an other note

William probably doesn't like this whole 'selling out' idea

Not strictly true. William prefers not to sell out, but more on the principle of repeat business and the long term impact is has on future pay. However, if the returns are high enough and there is little\no chance of blowback as a result.....

Upsetting supernatural creatures and Magi does count as blowback BTW.

OOC – I’m away for most of the night. I will post if I have time when I get back, otherwise I will catch up tomorrow. ECR has been contacted with the rest\potential actions William may do.

[Feralgnoll]

Rohal will move into a position to break the male down if he attempts to rush the She-wolf. He does not like this strangeness about him.

[Simon_Jester]

On 'selling out'- Radulf, personally, represents the class and clique of men who did so much to sour William on the nobility. Hell, he may have been personally involved in one of the incidents that did it- remember how many men-at-arms died on Radulf's failed raid into Coroghan?

I don't say that this cancels out William's ambitions, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a factor. Understanding that you'll be away, I'm curious about how that ties into all the other things in play here. Finding a patron is only good if they're a reliable patron, someone who has both secure bases of power that make them a worthy ally and enough enemies to need relatively... fringey allies. If a man can do it all himself, he doesn't need you; if he can't do anything himself, you don't need him.

Most of what's left of the local elite is... how do you say... either they're improvisers trying to keep things from falling even further apart, or they're small time operators with delusions of grandeur. Betraying someone of the first class for the sake of someone of the second class strikes me as a bad idea, because the improvisers are the ones who are most likely to make dangerous and competent enemies for someone who's still smaller than they are even after the betrayal.

[Kaelan]

More like aiding someone who is fifth class over somebody who is fourth.

[Simon_Jester]

Er, when I said "first" and "second," I meant the categories I myself had drawn. Their rank is irrelevant, in times like this rank is fluid and the top of the pyramid is going to be rebuilt from scratch anyway in the long run.

The key is that you don't want to end up backing a weak man against a strong man, or betraying a strong man for the benefit of a weak man. My argument is that Sir Lautern, the verderer, is acting in a way that indicates strength: he's actively seeking out threats to the peace of the realm and destroying them, he's got popularity, he's got a large united base of supporters that have considerable military power- we've already seen what Kuquani longbowmen are capable of.

Meanwhile, his opponents (whose rank isn't significantly higher than his) are divided among many candidates. None of whom have an obvious, superior claim to the power Lautern now holds by default. No one else has yet dared to try and overthrow him- if he were weak, someone would have already taken advantage of his absence to do this. All they're doing is sitting around plotting- as I said, small-time operators with delusions about their own importance and worthiness to hold power.

So backing one of these opponents (which one?) against Lautern seems like a dangerous gamble. What if Lautern can still rely on the yeomanry to back him, and overpowers his enemy? What happens to us?

Or what if we win? What if that enemy succeeds in overpowering Lautern, or at least forcing him onto the sidelines, but then winds up having to worry about the other seven people out there who still want to be running the barony in his place?

I think it would be much better to try and adhere to Lautern, rather than trying to assist in a coup that might force Lautern to become the leader of a peasant rebellion out of self-defense. Because if that happens, either way we lose- we become the enemies of a successful peasant revolt, or we wind up stuck in a realm that's collapsing due to civil war.

[Simon_Jester]

(Ghetto Edit: )

This is all aside from, and in addition to, the ethical and local-interest considerations, which Larric is probably more swayed by.

Out of character, my point is that while it's all very well to think outside the box, I'm not sure we really have a better option than to try and use Radulf and the information we have in pretty much the way Catarin wanted us to in the first place. That might change if we get more information or if some local figure tries to force the issue, but that hasn't happened yet.

In character, Larric said he'd do something, it's not obviously suicidal or dumb, and it seems like it's genuinely in the interests of a territory he's rather fond of for him to play it straight. So he's going to play it straight.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Beginning with what William can find out about the factions; eight may be a bit of an overestimate, that's mainly just how many it felt like. Of the main offices of court, and hence power bases, the actual treasurer is missing with the Baron;

there are three people involved here really, the treasurer whose job it is to control expenditure, hiring, pensions, so forth, the bailiff whose job it is to bring the money in (in addition to things like valuations, land assessments, setting rent) and the sheriff whose job it is to hit the people who prefer not to pay tax (in addition to general law and order in most of the barony apart from the bits under some special jurisdiction); apparently they don't get on very well, pulling in different directions.

The acting treasurer is the eighty year old Alcred Owell, who held the job oh, two Barons ago- he wants to spend to rebuild, old age has obviously rotted his brains to the point that he's actually become relatively generous in his dotage; his sons and grandsons are the obvious beneficiaries of this, he's too old to gain anything from it personally.

The Sheriff and Bailiff are both annoyed about this and in temporary alliance, although the various undersheriffs are pulling in different directions- some cutting slack and some cracking down. Both of them control large groups of armed men, although those men are not always in agreement, and are not the cream.

The private interests all of them deal with, the merchants' guilds, are happy to take what they can get from the treasurer and make appropriate mouth noises in return, but most people think they're taking Owell for a ride- especially the bailiff, who would ahve challenged Owell personally by now if he wasn't so old it would be ungentlemanly.

The Constable is strong in men at arms, although not in reputation or regard- stands little chance of getting the top job, knows it and probably intends to play kingmaker.

deVerett's own extended family are trying to find the money to bribe people, the problem being that he didn't really trust his own family; he knew what they were like. Their access to real power was almost entirely through him- he gave them the trappings of it and little more. They're trying to get the religious on their side.

One of his mistresses, the pregnant one, has been taken in by the family, the other one, with a child already (which apparently looks nothing like deVerett) is dancing between Tancred Owell and the undersheriff of Stanborow, Thom Stanulf.


baron deVerett apparently went looking for something- took his court wizard and chaplain and a lot of his best knights, to find an old relic, some kind of magical fortress that predated the Black Towers; haven't been seen since. No-one's entirely sure where the place was supposed to be, "somewhere in the mountains" is the best bet. He is not positively confirmed as dead yet- none of them are, in fact. His family want him back, but nobody else seems to be making more than lip service towards the idea.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Oh yes, wolves; Rohal is actually a shade behind the pace of the first moves- she has the odd one by the throat and is slowly killing him with cold, trying not to get too much of his blood in her mouth.

The rest of the pack are looking askance at him, though- bristling at him (the equivalent, anyway), wondering who he is and what he's doing there.

[Feralgnoll]

Ill try to make it clear to them that I mean them no harm. I too am bothered by the odd one.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

First, furry things- Rohal makes the appropriate moves and the winter wolf's pack leave him alone for the time being- until the odd one starts spasming, trying to tear itself loose; power flows into it, it's energies are being boosted, and Rohal can tell where from- up the mountain. What's he doing?


Well, most of the party is in the temple complex, so what a good place to meet priests. There's a knock on the doorframe- the actual door was used for firewood, there's just a curtain now. Three of them, a stained-robed man with the hammer of Ikhran, lean and worn looking, very short shaved dark hair, a Krylanyan- male, armoured, holy symbol, relatively fresh and clean- and a tired looking middle- aged priestess of Chelet.

There's a brief jockeying for precedence between them, the Ikhrani and the Krylanyan looking glares at each other- the priestess manages to get the first word in while they're still grumbling at each other. 'Welcome, you are under our hospitality and protection, Dame Tamarin told me you were here.'

The other two look wide eyed at her over that. The Ikhran priest has too much of an audience to ask her if she's gone mad, but the krylanyan does- thinks it would be appropriate to remind you that you need friends.
'These people obviously have a complex tale to tell, and it would be wise to wait to hear it before deciding if they are fit to be offered sanctuary- would it not have been?
Caralus, chosen of the goddess,' he introduces himself, 'and there are rumours that have preceded you. To whom do you intend to give your prioner over for judgement?'

[Feralgnoll]

Rohal will leap upon the spasming thing, ripping hamstrings out so that it cant move. He is not liking this sure of mountain magic power. A human train of thought washes over him and he will remind himself to tell Larric about this.

[Kaelan]

OOC
S_J, I think you've mis-interpreted the goal. William is not looking to back a fraction trying to get hold of the barony. He's looking lower down the food chain at people who are trying to maintain what they have within the barony - hence several levels lower than the 'high' politics that is being banded about.

IC
From the sounds of it the Constable appears to be the one to get behind for long term gains. Also, who does the treasurer mostly listen to apart from his family, and do I think Larric would be up for the job?
Also, leaving with a large body of men must have taken enough organisation to leave a rough trail of where they were headed - even if its third hand knowledge from a knights, squires, lodgemate friend. At least a rough heading and how many days supplies they took with them, especially if they were traveling in force with attendants.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

It tastes vile; the odd one has a chemical flavour- warped, mutated, changed by evil magic to be less of a natural animal and more of an attack beast. After Rohal ripping it's left hind leg off (overdeveloped, acid tang to the muscles), the she- wolf manages to freeze it to death; it struggles less, bleeding out too fast. Roll in the snow to get as much of that off as possible.

She looks Rohal over- there is something there, definitely- and takes a half step towards him before turning to run in pursuit of, to support, her pack.


Hm. Kaelan can walk back in while the three religious are there- you could have been left there long enough for a fair amount of information gathering to happen, and now he's back.

No editorial comment on his choices. That's a decision for the character- although there is a reason the constable's reputation stinks, and no definite word that isn't wild suposition on what Owell's really up to.

[Feralgnoll]

Alright. I'll take in the last bits of sensory information on the she-wolf and her pack (in case we need to find them again) and I will bring the leg and unceremoniously dump it in-front the group.

How far away am I from the main group?

[Simon_Jester]

Well, most of the party is in the temple complex, so what a good place to meet priests. There's a knock on the doorframe- the actual door was used for firewood, there's just a curtain now. Three of them, a stained-robed man with the hammer of Ikhran, lean and worn looking, very short shaved dark hair, a Krylanyan- male, armoured, holy symbol, relatively fresh and clean- and a tired looking middle- aged priestess of Chelet.

There's a brief jockeying for precedence between them, the Ikhrani and the Krylanyan looking glares at each other- the priestess manages to get the first word in while they're still grumbling at each other. 'Welcome, you are under our hospitality and protection, Dame Tamarin told me you were here.'

The other two look wide eyed at her over that. The Ikhran priest has too much of an audience to ask her if she's gone mad, but the krylanyan does- thinks it would be appropriate to remind you that you need friends.
'These people obviously have a complex tale to tell, and it would be wise to wait to hear it before deciding if they are fit to be offered sanctuary- would it not have been?

Caralus, chosen of the goddess,' he introduces himself, 'and there are rumours that have preceded you. To whom do you intend to give your prioner over for judgement?'

If Eliska doesn't actively try to cut him off (not ruling that out specifically, I want to give Sorchus a fair shot), Larric answers.

"We brought him up out of the south planning to give him to Sir Detrick. We didn't know he was out of town. There wasn't a lot of news back and forth- on account of that pair of elves at Caer Edric. They weren't letting many people past."

And if there's an hinted "...until they crossed swords with us" in there, well, so be it.

[Agent Sorchus]

Rather than cutting Larric off, Eliska interjects at the end. "Since Detrick is out of town we are uncertain of how to proceed entirely, except that time is a little short in this manner." (implying that we don't have time to actually give our prisoner to him now. This is true, since the people of Coroghan need help now.)

I am thinking of asking for a herald or other person that knows how the succession is going in Carfax. We have to remember that the groups in Carfax are going to be affected by who we turn Radulf over to.

(OOC xp spent entirely on Forces. PS could ECR double check how my magic is stated out, I don't want my notes to be different.)

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Is time really that short? I mean, Coroghan needs help, but within the week, not within the day. Remember the decision loop on Carfax's end- it's not like there was any sign of a huge invading army poised to sweep over the border. The strategy they wanted to pursue with chevauchées would have taken weeks if not months to have any real effect.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Sorchus- was Forces 4; Martial Arts (Strength)8- (breaking bricks and small walls with the power of your mind),

Talents 8; Martial Arts (Agility) 8 (running up walls, over snow without leaving footprints, etc), Life 8-

dropping four XP into that gets you up to Forces 8- from enough to break through the planks of a wooden fence to enough to shatter bricks, basically.

Fields are raised as a skill at double the cost, individual talents are raised as skills. This may need to be amended later, if I can think of something more sensible.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

The three of them look at each other. 'I'm not convinced the solution you're thinking of is appropriate.' the Ikhrani suggests to the Krylanyan.

'What would that be?'

'Something that resonates to the greater glory of the Goddess and does nothing to help.'

Considering how long it took the characters to get there and how fast a wolf can run, this would actually be a good moment for Rohal to walk in, still in wolf form, with a severed leg between his jaws.

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Fields are raised as a skill at double the cost, individual talents are raised as skills. This may need to be amended later, if I can think of something more sensible.

How do you gauge the cost of a field? If I've got Wits 8 Substance 9, I'd assumed that the cost of raising Substance is measured as if Wits were an ability score and Substance a skill, so that it's 1 XP per point increase up to 12.

But if I want to raise Wits, how do I know how much it'll cost?

IC:

Larric is, to some extent, looking at the Ikhrani as a trustworthyish spiritual leader. To his way of thinking, priests of Ikhran and Chelet are likely to value the defense of the community over some complicated political gambit to put themselves one-up on political opposition. Krylanyans... not so much.

At the moment this split over goals, ways, and means is reproduced within his own party, with the craftsman wanting to play it straight while the junior Krylanyan counsels political scheming, possibly at the expense of the man who's been managing the defense of the county, in hopes of some nebulous political gain. So I think Larric has a point.


Dipping his head to the priests, Larric chimes in.

"South of the Moshar, they're being raided from Carfax, we saw the raid. We didn't come here to stir up trouble, just to bear the news, and the man who was at the head of it. The folk down there don't like having men-at-arms wandering around burning them out. If they-" he almost says "we," but he didn't live there all his life and was moving away anyhow- "don't see someone they trust to fight for them keeping an eye on the matter, they're going to fight for themselves. Their lordships won't care for that up here, and I don't blame them, but if that happens things could really fall in the soup, don't they? So... saving your reverences, I don't mind not turning our man over to Sir Detrick, but only if I know whoever has him is going to spend more time thinking about Coroghan and Peredburh than he spends thinking about being king of the castle here."

[Kaelan]

OOC
After seeing the mess up here I wonder if it would be easier if we took over the entire Barony ourselves - any takers?

IC
Whilst this is underway, william is going to check that Radulf is still in the land of the living and try to smarten him up slighty. I assume at some point somebody is going to allow him to speak. I'll also try to get some food and drink for him given the injured state he has been in for the past few days. Nothing to fancy, but not prison gruel either.

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

OOC
After seeing the mess up here I wonder if it would be easier if we took over the entire Barony ourselves - any takers?

If I thought it could be done, I'd start thinking of reasons to do it.

IC
Whilst this is underway, william is going to check that Radulf is still in the land of the living and try to smarten him up slighty. I assume at some point somebody is going to allow him to speak. I'll also try to get some food and drink for him given the injured state he has been in for the past few days. Nothing to fancy, but not prison gruel either.

I'm not sure whether Radulf is conscious at any given time; he may have been gagged for some time. After that last escape attempt, I'd be nervous about letting him communicate with random people.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Let me see if I can give you a coherent answer to that...

Costing fields of magic the same as attributes would be an intuitive and sound thing to do, but for one big problem- they all start at zero and for the overwhelming majority of people remain there, so what does "below average" mean? What's "Supernatural"? The whole learning, raising and deriving mechanism for attributes doesn't really apply to them.

The alternative, they way it works at the moment, leads to big numbers for magic- mages gain in power quickly- which I'd like to throttle back on, but I'm still struggling to find an elegant rule to do it by.

Essentially at the moment, fields are treated as a skill too, just one that costs twice as much- so to take Wits from say 4 to 6, two levels, normally 1/2 point ea, doubles, so 1 point per, 2 points total. from 8 to 9, normally 1 point each, so in this case 2....
aah, this is a knock on effect of an earlier rules change that hasn't been properly accounted for. Only just realised that. Well proofread.

Essentially, it used to be that the rate at which skills got more expensive was a flat constant across all characters and attributes, going up in blocks of 8, instead of as it is now tied to the attribute and skill default. I forgot to revise that part of the system when I made the change.


Right, major rule change for learning magic. Tie it more closely to the existing attributes; if it is bought and paid for as an attribute from now on it would actually rise too slowly, but- taking the average for each group of attributes- all being human so this would be easier-
below the normal minimum costs one point per level;
from there to the normal average costs two XP to raise per point in the field;
from the normal average to the normal maximum costs three XP per level to raise,
beyond the normal maximum physical attribute for the race in that group, four XP per point in the field.

Improving skill is now done as if the controlling field of magic was indeed an attribute, with a (nonexistent) default.

It's a bit of an improvisation, but it feels more or less on the spot- follows in from the rest of the stats, allows growtrh at a good but not too fast rate. Go with that for the moment and see how it does go.

IC post to follow.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

The three religious will be able to take a look at Radulf, and make sure he will be fit to appear before a jury of his peers; in the meantime they continue to dispute among themselves, as much as they can reasonably do in front of you- letting slip the fact that the Krylanyan is not a native of the county but an incomer, part of a small group sent to help get the county back on it's feet- by the standrds of the goddess at least.

'Your lords and nobles obviously need the help- if they can't hold their land, can't dischage their trust-' he says and one point, and the priestess of chelet comes back with'Oh, don't go into all of that again.'


Whether their questions- and they do throw a few at you- are as helpful as they might be is debatable, but the short version is that the Krylanyan agrees to try to have a message sent to Detrick Lautern, somewhere past the Orhan Hills. Quite what the message is going to say, hard to be sure.

They agree to leave you alone after that, but undoubtedly rumours will start to spread form there, and it is at this precise point, after scalign the wall, Rohal arrives in wolf form, having followed the party's scent; shortly behind Tamarin.

'What a magnificent...oh. He's not actually a dog, is he?'