Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

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Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby MKSheppard » 2012-02-06 08:31pm

Some random news items of recent interest regarding Israel as well:

Germany to sell Israel a 4th SSK

Germany will sell Israel a fourth Dolphin-class submarine – the first since 2005 – and will finance a third of its costs, reports said Wednesday. Two of Israel's other Dolphins were paid for by Germany, while the third was half-funded by Israel. Two more are under construction.

Germany has already set aside 135 million euros for the project, a German official was quoted in press reports as saying.


1.2 to 1.3 trillion cubic feet of natural gas found off Israel's Coast

Delek Group Ltd. and Noble Energy Inc. on Sunday reported a substantial natural gas discovery at a depth of 5,500 meters in the offshore Tanin 1 (Crocodile) well, 120 kilometers northwest of Haifa.

The Tanin discovery reportedly amounts to 1.2-1.3 trillion cubic feet, making it slightly larger than the two companies' Yam Tethys reservoir, which is rapidly depleting. Delek Group owns its share of the Tanin license through Avner Oil and Gas LP and Delek Drilling LP.


Red Sea to Med Rail Link

JERUSALEM, Jan 29 (Reuters) - Israel said on Sunday it plans to build a railway line linking its Red Sea and Mediterranean ports that could handle potential overflow from the Suez Canal on the freight route between Asia and Europe.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his cabinet the idea of ships dropping off goods in one port to be picked up by a second ship at the other, had stirred "great interest" from major exporters India and China.

The project has yet to receive final approval or secure funding. Israel has not issued any cargo volume projections for the proposed electrified railway that would run 350 km (220 miles) from Eilat, on the Red Sea, to Ashdod, on the Mediterranean some 30 km south of Tel Aviv.

"Laying this line thus has strategic importance, both national and international," Netanyahu said in public remarks at the opening of a cabinet discussion on the project.

Israeli officials rebuffed any suggestion the railway plan came in response to political turmoil in Egypt and the rise of Islamist parties, though Israel has quietly been preparing for the possible erosion of its landmark peace accord with the neighbouring Arab power.

One official told Reuters the railway was a safeguard against the Suez proving incapable of handling surging maritime trade. The canal handled 8 percent of global seaborne traffic in 2009, Egyptian authorities say.

"There is going to be a lot of pressure on the Suez, and the idea here is to find an insurance should the canal not be able to deal with the volume," the official said.

Asked if the Israeli project might bite into Egyptian revenues from tariffs to sail the Suez, the official said: "We do not in any way intend to do anything of the sort."

"INTERNAL AFFAIR"

Samech Nabil, consul-general for the Egyptian embassy in Israel, said it would be premature to comment on the planned rail link, given the project's preliminary nature.

"I think this is purely an internal issue," Nabil told Reuters.

A year after an Egyptian uprising that toppled U.S.-aligned President Hosni Mubarak, Israelis fret at the rise of Islamist politicians in Cairo who firmly back the Palestinians and resent ties with the Jewish state.

Both countries have sought to play down any threat to their landmark 1979 peace accord in public and Israeli ships - including naval vessels - have continued to sail through the canal.

Oded Eran, a retired Israeli diplomat who is now senior research fellow at Tel Aviv University's Institute for National Security Studies, said global traders were increasingly looking at overland transport alternatives to sea routes.

"Going through Suez costs a lot of money in demurrage," he said, describing the time-consuming process of ships obtaining permission to enter the canal and transiting.

Israeli media projected the train line would cost around $2 billion to build. Its Transport Ministry said it was seeking a Chinese company to build it and estimated it would take up to five years to complete.

Israel is heavily dependent on imports, especially for energy, and is wary of any potential threat to supplies. It launched the 1967 war after Egypt blockaded the Strait of Tiran between Egypt and Saudi Arabia, cutting off Eilat.

Eran doubted Egypt would again threaten Israeli shipping, and said he believed assurances by the Netanyahu government that the railway would be primarily a commercial, rather than a security, asset.

Israeli officials linked the project to wider efforts to vitalise Israel's southern desert regions, including a pipeline between Eilat and Ashdod which is envisaged will pump natural gas from Mediterranean platforms for export through the Red Sea. (Writing by Dan Williams, Editing by Jeffrey Heller; Additional reporting by Ari Rabinovitch; Editing by Ben Harding)


Israel-Cyprus Power Line

Minister of Energy and Water, Dr. Uzi Landau, instructed the Israel Electric Company (IEC) Sunday to press ahead with the laying of an underwater cable to Cyprus. The IEC is to prepare a memorandum of understanding (MOU) that it will sign along with DEH Quantum Energy, a firm controlled by the Electric Company of Greece, the Cyprus Bank and another private firm.

The IEC and DEH are expected to sign the MOU in a few weeks' time. This will lead to a feasibility study, which will be followed – if all goes well – by ratification of the project by the Israeli and Cypriot governments, in the course of 2012.

The cable will be 270 km. long and provide an energy connection between Israel and Cyprus, 2,000 meters below sea level. Electricity will be able to flow in both directions at a capacity of up to 2,000 megawatts. Another cable will connect Cyprus and Crete, which is part of the Greek electricity grid. Therefore, Israel will effectively be connected to the European electricity grid.

An MOU for the longer cable has already been signed between Greece and Cyprus.

The entire project, including the Cyprus-Crete cable, is estimated to cost 1.5 million euro, one third of which is the cost of the Israel-Cyprus cable. The investment is expected to be recovered in full in four years' time.

Minister Landau began advancing the project last November, when he visited Cyprus alongside President Shimon Peres. He discussed the matter with Cyprus's Minister of Trade, Industry and Tourism, Praxoula Antoniadou, who stopped over for a brief visit in Israel last week and held further talks with Landau on the subject.


Cyprus as IAF base?

Israeli and Cypriot officials plan to discuss allowing the Israeli Air Force to station its jets there, during Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to Nicosia later this month, Israeli officials said Monday, Xinhua reported.

Netanyahu's arrival would signal the first-ever such visit to the Mediterranean country, which lies some 420 kilometers to the northwest of the Israeli coast.

"The Prime Minister of Israel will come to Cyprus to emphasize the good relations between the two countries and to strengthen the bilateral relations, which are already good," an Israeli embassy official told the Cyprus Mail in January.

In September 2011, Israel asked Cyprus to permit stationing its aircraft at the Andreas Papandreou airbase in Paphos, the Cypriot OnlyCy.com website reported.

The facility is reportedly capable of supporting and hosting such arrivals, according to the DefenseGreece. Com military affairs website, who noted that the Hellenic Air Force had stationed its F-16 fighter jets there almost a decade ago.

However, the prospect "is at the exploratory stage - it's not clear if it will or won't happen," said an Israeli official, in trying to cool expectations, told Xinhua on Monday.

The official, however, allowed that such a potential offshore airbase "is an existing option, and we're investigating the possibility," but again cautioned that such an agreement "isn't totally sewn up."

DefenseGreece.com termed the proposal "a significant upgrade of military relations between Israel and Cyprus," and one that "would change the military balance in Cyprus."

In January, Israel and Cyprus signed two defense agreements which Cypriot Minister of Defense Demetris Eliades said "sets the basis for the further development of relations in the area of defense cooperation."

Eliades, who signed the deal with Israeli counterpart Ehud Barak, touted the visit as "historic and very important for the development of the two countries' relations," AsiaNews said.

Eliades added that the massive natural gas reserves found in both Cyprus and Israel's economic zones "opened a new chapter in relations between the two countries," according to the Israeli Globes business news site.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Sidewinder » 2012-02-06 11:17pm

Considering where the airbase will be, may I assume Turkish-Israeli relations are almost beyond repair, if not already so?
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby ChaserGrey » 2012-02-06 11:27pm

They haven't been too good in general since Erdogan came to power, and in specific since that debacle with the Gaza Flotilla a while back. Plus, a lot of the ties between Israel and Turkey were military, and the Turkish military's political influence has been waning.

Doesn't look like anything definite, but at the very least someone high up in Israel is working on Plan B in case relations with the Turks are irreparably damaged.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2012-02-06 11:47pm

How many nuke-tipped cruise missiles does a Dolphin pack?
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-02-06 11:54pm

Hard to say, since the Israelis don't admit how many of the missiles they have with nuclear warheads. Even if they did, we wouldn't know exactly how many are on any one sub. We might be able to work out how many they could carry; even that might be secret.

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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2012-02-06 11:57pm

The safest question would be how many cruise missiles a Dolphin could pack, then. And then assume that they're all spherical masses of uranium. Worst case scenarios, being aware and beware and taking no chances with weapons of mass destruction and all that.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby madd0ct0r » 2012-02-07 01:51am

I read the title and was wondering if this was another go at using dolphins to clear mines...

How does the undersea gas fit in with the rest of the info though? A navy wouldn't be able to protect them, nor is a navy needed to exploit them?
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Darth Fanboy » 2012-02-07 03:07am

This reminds me of THE GREAT DOLPHIN CONSPIRACY. *Chatters*
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Sarevok » 2012-02-07 03:53am

Why would Germany finance the Israeli military procurement ?
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2012-02-07 04:01am

Holocaust reparations.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Sarevok » 2012-02-07 04:32am

It seems odd that nuclear weapon delivery platforms would fall under Holocaust "reparations".
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2012-02-07 04:43am

SSKs aren't nuclear weapon delivery platforms, they're just modern U-boats. What deliveries the Israelis want to platform in them, well, that's up to them and they keep it all vague and hush-hush.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Sarevok » 2012-02-07 04:56am

It is widely speculated that Israeli Dolphins would be used to deliver nuclear weapons. Since they can't afford boomer subs they use SSKs for that.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2012-02-07 05:03am

Yes. But the Germans aren't the ones putting the nukes into the submarines. It's no different from selling the Israelis F-16s and the Israelis themselves modifying the F-16s to carry nukes.

Just like how the Israelis placed a nuclear weapon in a Mirage fighter and sent it to bomb the Syrians, except it got shot down by a SAM and then years later some guys dug up the nuke and used it to vaporize Baltimore, leading to the Australian-American war.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Skgoa » 2012-02-07 05:07am

Sarevok wrote:Why would Germany finance the Israeli military procurement ?

Military-Industrial-BailHandout. the greek sub buy is falling flat and Australia might not go for that class, after all. So they sell at a discount to keep the order books full.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Tribun » 2012-02-07 05:46am

Sarevok wrote:Why would Germany finance the Israeli military procurement ?


Simple, our politicians suck Israel's dick whenever commanded to, since they were trained to blindly accept that Israel can only do good (which we know is bullshit). Also, any politician who doesn't is at once attacked with Nazi and holocaust strawmen attacks to silence them. it is as sick as it sounds, but thankfully no longer as bad as it had been 20 years ago.

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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby ChaserGrey » 2012-02-07 06:15am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How many nuke-tipped cruise missiles does a Dolphin pack?


Dolphins can carry up to 16 weapons, either torpedoes or missiles. What mix the Israelis use is anybody's guess, but you'd want at least some torpedoes along for self-defense even if you were making a pure deterrent patrol.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby weemadando » 2012-02-07 06:36am

Everyone's talking about dick enhancements.

A fucking Suez Canal alternative. That's the big news here. Putting in a serious overland alternative to the Suez Canal is a relatively simple project (given the comparative lack of terrain compared to doing such a thing in Pananma).

Not to mention the [commence tired brain speculation] fact that it would be a crazy thing with the chance to change balances of power even more - imagine if China was suddenly more interested in keeping Israel happy because they can move their freight faster than they were in making arms sales to it's neighbours?

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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby The Grim Squeaker » 2012-02-07 07:15am

weemadando wrote:Everyone's talking about dick enhancements.

A fucking Suez Canal alternative. That's the big news here. Putting in a serious overland alternative to the Suez Canal is a relatively simple project (given the comparative lack of terrain compared to doing such a thing in Pananma).

Not to mention the [commence tired brain speculation] fact that it would be a crazy thing with the chance to change balances of power even more - imagine if China was suddenly more interested in keeping Israel happy because they can move their freight faster than they were in making arms sales to it's neighbours?

Eh. I'll believe it when I see it. It's more likely than the proposal to link the Red sea to the dead sea (which had support from Jordan, and could have genereated billions in hydroelectric power, while regenerating the drying dead sea), but a Train link to Eilat (the Red sea port) to the mercaz has been talked about for years without moving forward.
(Geographical spoiler: 2/3 of Israel is desert holding ~5% of the population. Eilat and the red sea are on the other end of that).
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Broken » 2012-02-07 10:18am

Skgoa wrote:Military-Industrial-BailHandout. the greek sub buy is falling flat and Australia might not go for that class, after all. So they sell at a discount to keep the order books full.


That is quite possible. IIRC, the US Navy does basically the same thing in regards to its own ship-building programs. They basically try to always have 1 nuke sub and 1 carrier under construction at all times in order to preserve that workforce and its knowledge-base as well as the physical infrastructure intact and up-to-date.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-02-07 01:44pm

weemadando wrote:Everyone's talking about dick enhancements.

A fucking Suez Canal alternative. That's the big news here. Putting in a serious overland alternative to the Suez Canal is a relatively simple project (given the comparative lack of terrain compared to doing such a thing in Pananma).

Not to mention the [commence tired brain speculation] fact that it would be a crazy thing with the chance to change balances of power even more - imagine if China was suddenly more interested in keeping Israel happy because they can move their freight faster than they were in making arms sales to it's neighbours?
You have an interesting point. If the railway can handle enough freight fast enough, it will certainly have that effect- though the time consumed in loading and offloading ships at the ports might cancel out the time consumed waiting in line to go through the canal.

madd0ct0r wrote:I read the title and was wondering if this was another go at using dolphins to clear mines...

How does the undersea gas fit in with the rest of the info though? A navy wouldn't be able to protect them, nor is a navy needed to exploit them?
I don't know. The extraction industry is all at sea, so having a navy means you can deter people from harassing it. It also helps you assert power over the waters around your country (an Israeli airbase in Cyprus would do the same thing for them), and in general means that you have more strength which can be made to be felt at greater distances from your country. So this can all be tied into "Israel is trying to strengthen its strategic position, with more control over broader reaches of the sea, and with its own economic route (that railway) that lets it present an alternative to the Suez Canal now that Egypt has become a possibly unstable and dangerous country."

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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby weemadando » 2012-02-07 02:27pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
weemadando wrote:Everyone's talking about dick enhancements.

A fucking Suez Canal alternative. That's the big news here. Putting in a serious overland alternative to the Suez Canal is a relatively simple project (given the comparative lack of terrain compared to doing such a thing in Pananma).

Not to mention the [commence tired brain speculation] fact that it would be a crazy thing with the chance to change balances of power even more - imagine if China was suddenly more interested in keeping Israel happy because they can move their freight faster than they were in making arms sales to it's neighbours?
You have an interesting point. If the railway can handle enough freight fast enough, it will certainly have that effect- though the time consumed in loading and offloading ships at the ports might cancel out the time consumed waiting in line to go through the canal.


The Suez is one of the most generous in terms of "Suezmax" capacity for vessels too. It'd have to be a really efficient fast transfer process - unless Israel got into business as the new distribution hub for the Med - they receive goods from Asia and then rather than acting as a straight transfer point, they actually break down the loads for end destination there.

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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Thanas » 2012-02-07 04:49pm

Tribun wrote:
Sarevok wrote:Why would Germany finance the Israeli military procurement ?


Simple, our politicians suck Israel's dick whenever commanded to, since they were trained to blindly accept that Israel can only do good (which we know is bullshit). Also, any politician who doesn't is at once attacked with Nazi and holocaust strawmen attacks to silence them. it is as sick as it sounds, but thankfully no longer as bad as it had been 20 years ago.


This. The Israelis are very good at playing the blame card.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Pelranius » 2012-02-07 06:19pm

ChaserGrey wrote:They haven't been too good in general since Erdogan came to power, and in specific since that debacle with the Gaza Flotilla a while back. Plus, a lot of the ties between Israel and Turkey were military, and the Turkish military's political influence has been waning.

Doesn't look like anything definite, but at the very least someone high up in Israel is working on Plan B in case relations with the Turks are irreparably damaged.


On the other hand, the Turks don't talk too much about Israel ever since their (Ankara's) relationship with Syria went belly up.
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Re: Fourth Dolphin for Israel with Germanoid Money?

Postby Thanas » 2012-02-07 06:22pm

Yeah, but Israel really pissed away that relationship for no good reason when they bullied the Israeli ambassador on national TV. Really, doing childish stuff like making him sit lower than the Israeli guy and insulting the Turkish flag? From an official to boot.
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