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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-12 03:29pm
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Count Chocula wrote:
And deciduous shrubs; do those grow in Afghanistan?


Assuming you even know what deciduous means ... but yes, yes they do. Mulberries, pomegranates, and figs are all common. And although Afghanistan is not heavily forested, some of the mountain valleys and passes are full of evergreens and various deciduous species. However, this would appear to be one of the arid sub-tropical shrubs that dominate many of the more dangerous regions of the country.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-12 07:48pm
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"Other people get away with worse, so we shouldn't punish those who do less harmful things."



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-12 07:52pm
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Destructionator XIII wrote:
More accurately: "people don't get away with less harmful things, so we shouldn't let people get away with worse either."

The government are a bunch of fucking hypocrites.



Is this a revelation to you?



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-12 08:18pm
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Destructionator XIII wrote:
If we restricted posts in the News forum to stuff that's actually new, the place would be dead.
Right, because it's not like this forum is called "News and POLITICS" or anything.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-12 08:57pm
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Destructionator XIII wrote:
I'm seeing this on the CBS Evening News right now, and ridiculous.

Some grunts piss on some dead bodies, and everyone goes nuts. They'll be a full investigation, they MUST be held responsible!

Torture, murder, and hold living people indefinitely? AMERICAN HEROES IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION.


But they made the torture and murder and detention legal.

This is both against the rules and not directly embarassing for those in poer



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 12:18am
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If their urine wasn't clear then we can also NJP 'em for not hydrating in a combat zone.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 02:51am
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Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Afghanistan belongs to America now, and the behaviors of dominant creatures often involve marking their territories to ward off lesser creatures and scavengers. Nature is simply taking its course. Freedom and democracy have prevailed.

In the harsh desert, water is a precious and sacred commodity. These brave patriots are merely shedding their water upon their vanquished foes as a sign of respect. They have to walk with rhythm.


Will Marines start shrieking "MUUUUUUHHHHREEEEEN!" everytime they fire a round?

"Our name is a Killing word..."

Will Drill Sergeants instruct their troops that 'Fear is the Mind-Killer'?



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 04:24am
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Rahvin wrote:
LaCroix wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Apparently the Taliban is saying that this won't hurt diplomatic negotiations. How very forward of them.

At least they got people for the post who realize that the actions of some idiots are not representative of general opinion (and shows the fact that they mellowed a bit). This makes me look forward to the negotiations with them .


Is that what it means? Or does it mean "We already knew the Americans view Muslims as subhuman, like that Florida preacher who wanted to burn the Koran, or the occasional fuckwit who talks about dousing the bodies of Muslim combatants in pig's blood, or the soldier who recently got convicted for collecting Muslim body parts as trophies, or the group of soldiers who raped and murdered an entire family of Iraqis. This doesn't change anything because we honestly aren't surprised at all, the only difference is that it happened to be caught on tape and distributed to the media this time. We were pissed before, and we're pissed now."

The opinions of racist Americans, including troops, are hardly a big secret. Certainly not all Americans or American troops are like that, but the presence of this sort of person in the American Armed Forces isn't exactly a surprise.

This. The full statement from the Taliban was more along the likes of "Yes, we've already seen worse than this before and therefore it comes as no surprise, so we will not let it hinder the talks."

They already expect this and worse from the US as a matter of course, so it's not like they can lose anything by taking a more mellow approach. They are getting good PR from this already (or bad PR for the US) and have nothing to gain by going "RARGH BLARGH RAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 06:54am
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I know I am going to piss off a few people with this, but:
Look, this stuff happening is not unthinkable among soldiers. In every profession there are always groups of asshats that will do stupid stuff like this. Desecration of the enemy is common tradition, written or unwritten.

Plus, really, this is the same military that trough constant bombing killed far more innocent civilians, either by mistake or to get one guy that was identified by someone as a "terrorist". Look at the thread where one guy got back from Guntanamo bay facility, humiliated, tortured and driven to near-insanity because he married a muslim woman and wanted to learn her religion by visiting her home country. That place has probably more stories like that. Not to mention that video a few months ago where a helicopter pilot (I think?) killed civilians with merry abandon.
The fact that some of them pissed on a few dead people is just a cherry on a massive pile of dead bodies. Anyone who has been paying attention should only find this news because the News finds it news.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 07:02am
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Zixinus wrote:
I know I am going to piss off a few people with this, but:
Look, this stuff happening is not unthinkable among soldiers. In every profession there are always groups of asshats that will do stupid stuff like this. Desecration of the enemy is common tradition, written or unwritten.

Plus, really, this is the same military that trough constant bombing killed far more innocent civilians, either by mistake or to get one guy that was identified by someone as a "terrorist". Look at the thread where one guy got back from Guntanamo bay facility, humiliated, tortured and driven to near-insanity because he married a muslim woman and wanted to learn her religion by visiting her home country. That place has probably more stories like that. Not to mention that video a few months ago where a helicopter pilot (I think?) killed civilians with merry abandon.
The fact that some of them pissed on a few dead people is just a cherry on a massive pile of dead bodies. Anyone who has been paying attention should only find this news because the News finds it news.



Perhaps it isn't a big deal(I actually don't think it is a big deal), BUT let's look through the list of stupid things these knuckleheads did:

(1)Pissed on (what I assume to be) dead insurgents.
(2)Videotaped what many people will view to be at best unprofessional behavior.
(3)Put it on the Internet.

I'm sure these brain surgeons seriously thought that the video would remain private forever. Sure thing. I bet the jackholes at Abu Gharib thought the same about their album.

I'm of the opinion that if you act like a jackass in uniform in public then you can expect to be made a public example. My sympathy-o-meter for these knuckleheads is precisely zero.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 07:40am
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Oh, don't get me wrong! I am not saying that their behaviour is excusable in any manner. I'm just baffled as to why people are outraged over THIS when far worse has been done.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 08:07am
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Zixinus wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong! I am not saying that their behaviour is excusable in any manner. I'm just baffled as to why people are outraged over THIS when far worse has been done.


Because people don't like the idea of military personnel doing something unprofessional and laughing.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 09:35am
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It's funny because the reaction I had was a groan and a 'gee whiz you'd think they'd have learned to behave by now', not outrage over the act itself.

I mean, they shot and killed who are (presumably) insurgents. Urinating on their corpses seems like... small-minded next to that.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 10:16am
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I suddenly can't help but imagine that a lot of people aren't offended because of its disgracing attitude towards the dead or at bothered by the dead Arabs after all, but only because they find the behaviour crude and expect their top soldiers to do a better class of desecration.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 03:56pm
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Zixinus wrote:
I suddenly can't help but imagine that a lot of people aren't offended because of its disgracing attitude towards the dead or at bothered by the dead Arabs after all, but only because they find the behaviour crude and expect their top soldiers to do a better class of desecration.


Can't it be both? I mean, I am bothered by the war in general, and this type of behavior towards dead people (who may or may not be "enemies" anyway). But I am also bothered by the fact that they were stupid enough to do this in the current environment, with everything that has happened in the past couple of years, and how representative it is of the public perception of us in many parts of the world.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-13 10:16pm
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Saw this on the Deutsche Welle Journal (an international news show based in Germany), apparently as an ongoing series on How The Rest of the World Sees Us. The previous day's newscasts showed the apparent hollowness of the promise to close Guantanamo three years ago, and then interviewed a partially blind guy living in Britain now who an American interrogator tried to extract the eyes from with his bare hands.

Well done, guys. Show those brown barbarians how professional servicemen act.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 05:20am
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I'm not at all surprised by the actions, it's not like defiling your enemies corpses is a new thing in warfare.
But these people are from modern society, they've seen fat little bastards looking like dumbasses pretending to be Darth Maul (in what I'm sure He thought was a 'totally-private-will-never-be-seen' video. And the 'Hey look I haz puppy lets throw it, wheee lol!!!' moments, and also we know wars get filmed now, I mean since Vietnam Wars have been big media business, and off course the round the clock footage of The Gulf War.

Basically, videoing and/or taping stuff like this for the posterity, is just a class of dickheadedness that makes me shake my head.
I mean, seriously are they going to look back on this years down the line, twitching and hitting the deck every time a car backfires, and having all the fun of PTSD, and going 'Well shit Timmy, when I was in the War on Terror, I done pissed on some Aye-rabs'. Or maybe they'll go down to the local RSA (or whatever Yanks call it) and go 'Dood dood remember that time we pissed on those Aye-rabs...yeah that was fucking awesome!'

Or perhaps 'Hey hey! Mom Mom check this shit out! I'm pissing on a dude, how fucking awesome is that!'

:banghead:

It's not the fact they're doing it...it's the fact, that yet again, these morons have filmed it.
Maybe those go-pills are finally starting to rot their braincells or something.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 06:44am
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Edi wrote:
They already expect this and worse from the US as a matter of course, so it's not like they can lose anything by taking a more mellow approach. They are getting good PR from this already (or bad PR for the US) and have nothing to gain by going "RARGH BLARGH RAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"


You know it really says a lot about how low we've sunk that a bunch of rejects from the middle ages now expect the worst from us. It seems like these days I can only ever be disappointed with my country. When was the last time we actually did anything to help anyone?



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 07:39am
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Darksider wrote:
Edi wrote:
They already expect this and worse from the US as a matter of course, so it's not like they can lose anything by taking a more mellow approach. They are getting good PR from this already (or bad PR for the US) and have nothing to gain by going "RARGH BLARGH RAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"


You know it really says a lot about how low we've sunk that a bunch of rejects from the middle ages now expect the worst from us. It seems like these days I can only ever be disappointed with my country. When was the last time we actually did anything to help anyone?

Haiti, African AIDS relief, Japan, Indian Ocean tsunami, disaster relief across the globe, really.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 10:15am
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Darksider wrote:

You know it really says a lot about how low we've sunk that a bunch of rejects from the middle ages now expect the worst from us. It seems like these days I can only ever be disappointed with my country. When was the last time we actually did anything to help anyone?



I personally was involved with the Indian Ocean Tsunami relief.

The USN routinely sends hospital ships and big amphibs without Marines on them on giant PR missions to drop anchor and immunize locals, perform surgeries they otherwise don't have access to, etc.

Haiti, of course. The Japanese Earthquake. Pakistani Earthquake. Ironically, most of these "immediate relief" operations are done with big expensive power-projection stuff. Shoot, there's an entire corridor of the Pentagon where they just have Humanitarian Operations on the walls.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 11:37am
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Yeah, Japanese opinion of the US military in the aggregate (according to polling data, at least) went up due to its assistance in the great earthquake. As I recall there was a giggle-worthy name for the aid as "Operation Tomodachi" involved. And opinion of the US as a whole hit a record high. Around the world there seems to be this perception "American citizens are okay, but their soldiers and leaders are bastards". I can't imagine this type of behaviour helps that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 02:07pm
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remember punish the grunts, make sure nothing happens to the powers that created the enviornment that fostered this behavior.



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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 04:13pm
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Count Chocula wrote:
OK I just saw the piss stream of the person on the right hand side of the pic. Based on that, I concede. If these are Marines, and I can't see name patches or rank insignia to verify, then the UCMJ hammer should come down on them. If it's a spoof or joke it's in egregiously bad taste.


Eh, the US military has already identified the marines in the video:

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The United States Marine Corps has identified the four Marines shown in a video urinating on what appear to be dead Taliban fighters, without releasing any names, and has named a lead investigating officer to decide whether they should be charged, Marine officials said Friday.

Marine officials were also attempting to identify the person who shot the video, which emerged early Thursday and has incited a wave of anti-American sentiment at a delicate moment in the decade-long war in Afghanistan.

Two of the four Marines were questioned Thursday by criminal investigators and released to their commanders, the officials said. All served in the Third Battalion, Second Marines, and were based at Camp Lejuene in North Carolina.


Link

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 Post subject: Re: Ladies and gentlemen,a slow clap for the USMC PostPosted: 2012-01-14 06:49pm
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To be honest, given the record of the USA so far some guys urinating on a corpse is pretty much the smallest offence committed so far. It is not like the USA is not routinely torturing guys or holding them without a trial indefinitely, so pissing on some guy is not that bad in comparison.



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