That disruptor beam damage was caused on the inside of the vessel... the drone that caused it got royally fucked in exchange. Yes, the Borg have arm mounted disruptors they use off-screen.
Seven of Nine points her arm right at Chakotay in part 2 when they come in guns blazing - Additionally we have seen Seven Of Nine use directed weapons before. Survival when she fucks those other drones that got stranded or Descent when Lore's drones are seen using them.
I know all about the wrist-mounted disruptors. (I won't comment on the fact that they fire pulses. Tuvok said the damage was caused by a disruptor beam.)
How do you know that's what caused the damage? If a cube's disruptor breached the hull, the inside would be messed up, too.
It is far more reasonable to conclude S8472 boarded remains of the Borg ship, the Borg drone(s) tried to board and shoot the pilot. The resulting damage is getting fixed while the rest Pilot goes slaughtering drones. There is no information how long the battle actually took, when the damage to the inside of the ship occured and how severe that damage actually was beyond: Hey, the wall was hit by a Borg Disruptor.
All this demonstrates is S8472 bioships arent as tough on the inside as the outside. Hardly a surprise and completely bullshit comparison at trying to claim the Borg Cubes are able to inflict massive damage on Bioships let alone ANY damage.
Why bother boarding the cube fragment? Intel gathering?
Ah, we'll cover that later.
If, as I said, the bioship had a hole blown in it, when that happened is absolutely relevant. It could not have been before the Borg ship was destroyed; therefore, the bioship's still healing after many hours. To me, that suggests it was hurt. Badly.
You are also either misrepresenting or ignoring part of my argument. I didn't simply claim "Scorpion" proves bioships can be severely damaged. In fact, when I entered the thread, I said:
[quote=Sean pointed out "Prey," in which Tuvok said/]:Its ship was damaged during the conflict with the Borg.
When the other members of its species retreated into fluidic space it was left behind. It has been trapped in the Delta quadrant ever since, alone, pursued by Hirogen hunting parties. It has no desire for further conflict. It only wants to return to its domain. It is dying, Captain.[/quote]
I went on to conclude:
It's clear Borg ships do have the muscle to deal severe damage to bioships, but since the Collective can't really adapt to the bioships' beam weapons, cubes are killed before they can land many lethal blows.
Only when Tanner tried to dismiss the "Prey" quote did I start in on "Scorpion." And the former quote is
gold. We see what happens when a cube rams a bioship. The bioship goes ... how did I put it? KABOOM?
Yes, that's it: KABOOM! So let's not have any of that "Oh, the Borg rammed it but it didn't die" stuff, please.
The most logical conclusion is that the Borg crippled the bioship to the point it could never restore itself back to optimal performance. Sort of like if you severed my right leg at the knee. I'd stop bleeding and "regenerate" with some timely medical intervention, but I'd never be able to grow my lower leg back.
Then, after a long time of running from Borg space, it stumbled into the Hirogen. They found it was enormously powerful, but not strong enough to wipe out many hunting parties before word got around the hunting ground, "For a good time, chase this squid-looking bastard." By that point, it lacked the punch to even knock out Tony Todd's ship -- or, at least, the little pack he hung out with. He pursued it for 50 light years before it made its last stand.
S8472 sent 10 ships to attack the world Voyager was around. Only one of them is actually seen engaging while the other nine just blitz the planet.
3 cubes vs 1 initial ship and they get creamed within 1 miniute: Somehow I fail to see how this demonstrates the Borg are getting anything but decimated in exchanges
You're changing the subject. I said the Borg had the might to cause severe damage to a bioship. I never said they weren't getting their asses kicked six ways from Sunday, dude.
Even the initial trailer shows S8472 curbstomping two cubes between 2 - 3 shots each and the suicide cube got slammed just from a glancing blast from one of the things.
If a cube can actually engage S8472 and damage them the cube wouldnt need to go suicidal, just move in the way and then slam it with more weapons fire.
False dichotomy. It could be that the lone cube could damage the bioship, but it would be destroyed before it could deliver such damage ... kind of like I said in my first post in the thread
By the way, I never said ONE Borg Cube could dish out said severe damage. I just said the Borg SHIPS, plural, obviously had the might to do so, as demonstrated by the very appearance of a bioship in "Prey."
It sure seems like S8472 have much consideration for Borg firepower when they send a single ship to obliterate Voyager that completely brushes the cube aside to the point the only recourse is suicide to take it out.
Correction: they aren't worried about one
cube's firepower. After five months of fighting the Collective, I think they'd figured out their bioships were superior on a per-unit basis
Why did the bioship sit and pause on the Borg wreckage ?
- In the Flesh makes it abundantly clear some / all of the recreation they made came from BORG intelligence they gathered. Seems farily logical that intelligence would have to come from their computers, communication intercepts and ripping drones apart for info just like Picard did in First Contact.
I.E The straggler could easily be ripping through the ships drones to discover intelligence on Borg activities to improve their campaign
The thing was hardly caring much to leave defences on the ship when a poor drone is sitting trying to assimilate it over and over and over and we get a full list of all the shit that CANT be done to S8472.
The Borg couldn't assimilate the ship. And why bother turning on some active defense system to fend off drones?
A. The Borg weren't trying to destroy it from the inside. That would kind of fuck up the efforts of the drone trying to assimilate it, no?
B. Who says the Eights have active defense systems in their ships anyway? They'd be among a precious few in Trek who did!
For that matter, why would that lone pilot spend hours upon hours fucking about with intelligence-gathering when, according to you, 8472's campaign saw them stomping around Borg space with the GOD mode turned on? How can they improve upon complete domination?
I also sincerely doubt their facsimile of Starfleet HQ comes from largely from information they gathered from the Borg. For one, why would they go mucking about old data records about the far-distant Starfleet -- assuming, of course, the Eights can tell a data node from a toilet in the first place.
In the end, we can forget all about "Scorpion" and focus on "Prey." A bioship was damaged in combat with the Borg. If y'all wold have me believe that means very minor damage, and the Hirogen's little two-man hunting ships are almost totally responsible for the state of that bioship when Tony Todd forces it into a last stand ...
All I could say is, would you be taking the piss out of me, or what?
Can we detect S8472 ships - Nope
Can we use a tractor beam on it - Nope
Can we detect S8472 pilots - Nope
Can scan S8472 ships or pilots - Nope
Can we beam up our crew around S8472 - Nope
Can we assimilate them - Nope
Do Borg torpedoes work against them - Nope
Sure. A couple or handful of torpedoes didn't destroy a bioship. Therefore, no amount of Borg torpedoes can hurt them. You know as well as I, that's practically THE definition of a No-Limits Fallacy.
The direct statement from the Borg makes it abundantly clear they were getting shafted, 312 vessels disabled and 8 planets destroyed. We get a first hand look at how quickly it takes for them to destroy a planet. Based on the performance of S8472 on screen that Borg quote could be referencing just a SINGLE battle.
I was tempted to agree, but I doubt the Borg would have eight habitable planets in one system; thus, I figure we're probably looking at a couple or few engagements. (All we know for sure is that shit went down in Matrix 010, Grid 19. Sometimes Grid numbers do seem to refer to single systems, like Species 10026 at Grid 532. We have heard more precise units, such as Species 6339's origin -- Grid 124, Octant 22 Theta.)
In any case, you are certainly on the right track. That sit-rep was certainly not about the Collective's cumulative losses; Seven states that the Eights destroyed hundreds
of Borg planets in "Prey."
Spread out over five months of fighting ... hmm. I'm not yet sure what to make of that. They can blow up a planet in less than a minute. If we assume they destroyed 500 planets, they had almost 13 million minutes to do so. At that rate, they averaged one planet per 26,000 minutes, equal to 433 hours or ~18 days if my math's correct. Subjectively, that seems a little slow to me for someone meeting next to no resistance
Since folks are splitting hairs finer than since Bill Clinton argued about the meaning of "is," I leave you with this bit of semantics:
CHAKOTAY: Six months ago, this species invaded our galaxy with thousands of ships. We were barely able to fight them off.
JANEWAY: Your prey could indicate another invasion. If it does, we're all in trouble. How many ships have you seen?
ALPHA: Only one. Damaged. We tracked it across fifty light-years. We thought that we had killed the creature but this prey is unlike any other. It has many lives. Lower the force field and I will finish the hunt.
SEVEN: Your attempt to destroy it will fail. Species 8472 is highly resistant to all technology. All but one. Borg nanoprobes.[/quote]
Highly resistant, not invulnerable. Also note that, FWIW, the bioship was already damaged when Tony Todd first encountered it.
The TL;DR version is simple enough: a bioship was damaged badly enough by the Borg that it couldn't go home. The Voyager
, a practical joke next to the might of a bioship, could
open a conduit to Fluidic Space. That tells me the Borg DID inflict severe damage on that bioship. Whether it was dealt by some monster-cube we've never seen or multiple ships is open to speculation.