New Redletter Media video about Lucas

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Jim Raynor
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

I keep calling people on their previous crap because they don't own up to it (seemingly ignoring that they said it even as they press on and manufacture more trivial things to whine about), but also because it so clearly illustrates the warped mentality they have toward this movie.

Really, why a blockade is bad needs to be explained? Saying that someone can just hunt wild animals to overcome the blockade? Asking why someone would jam comms during a military attack? Why someone with the rank of "General" can speak with authority during a military meeting?

If you choose to be so willfully ignorant, harping on trivia like the exact nature of the tax dispute suddenly seems sensible. Suddenly, these little things (or even complete non-issues) are supposedly critical to the plot of the entire movie.

The underlying fact about this whole 18 page thread is several people's lack of self-awareness, and their redefinition of what is normal. Yes, it is far more normal of me to care about the actual story and action, than a piece of trivia (obsessing over trivia is not what "processing fiction" is about to most people). No, the average person does not seek out websites and forums to whine about movies years and years after the fact.

Get a grip and take a good look at yourselves. This thread is an embarassment to SW fandom.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Jim Raynor wrote:"What is the Dark Side?
The evil side? It's self-explanatory unless you're an idiot.
Jim Raynor wrote:How did he even meet the Emperor? Who was the Emperor before being the Emperor? How did the Emperor learn all these Dark Side powers? How was Vader seduced? Why would he turn on his friends?"
Good questions to be answered in the prequels, sure, but not necessary for the plot or characters of the OT to make sense.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Elfdart »

Galvatron wrote:
Jim Raynor wrote:Yeah, so fleshed out that a Jedi gone bad (for no stated reason) was all he was. Until the very ending of TESB threw in the total retcon about him being Luke's daddy too (still no motivation).
"Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force" = motivation
Which is little more than saying "Vader went bad".
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Elfdart »

Gunhead wrote:By the way, this "oh you just don't get it" shit needs to stop.


Why? Because the truth hurts and Stoklassa's fanboys really are a bunch of flaming retards? On the contrary: It needs to be repeated often.
I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread gets what's going on in the movies.


Could have fooled me.
We in fact get told a lot of shit that should have been shown, not told.


You want to see the Senate vote to tax the trade routes? You want to see Gunray sign his pact with Sidious?
:lol:

In ANH, Tarkin walks into a meeting room and tells everyone that the Emperor just dismissed the Senate. Are you disappointed that they didn't shoot such a scene? If so, your idea of film-making sounds like Super Shadow's wish/wank list.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Elfdart wrote: Which is little more than saying "Vader went bad".
It's saying WHAT made Vader go bad. So WHY did it make him go bad? Well...

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

The Force is power and that power has corrupted him.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Crateria »

I have a feeling this will go on forever until somebody steps in and locks it.

EDIT: Not that I'm advising as such, just saying there could be many more pages on the way.
Damn you know it. You so smart you brought up like history and shit. Laying down facts like you was a blues clues episode or something. How you get so smart? Like the puns and shit you use are wicked smart, Red Letter Moron! HAHAHAHAH!1 Fucks that is funny, you like should be on TV with Jeff Dunham and shit.-emersonlakeandbalmer
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Tiriol »

Galvatron wrote:
Elfdart wrote: Which is little more than saying "Vader went bad".
It's saying WHAT made Vader go bad. So WHY did it make him go bad? Well...

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

The Force is power and that power has corrupted him.
Why did he desire that power, then? What was his motivation for gaining that power? At least the prequels gave pretty clear reasons for Anakin to seek out ever greater power - he wanted to prevent his loved ones from getting hurt and in extreme cases from dying.

Maybe Vader in the OT desired power for its own sake. That's a motivation and many real-life people do have it. However, many real-life people also desire money for its own sake and do some terrible things in order to gain more money. Stupid things, even. Like setting up unjust blockades or throwing a hissy fit because someone threatens their income. Maybe they might back up some shady character whom they think is totally under their control or at least on equal footing to them only to have that backfire on them badly.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Tiriol wrote:Why did he desire that power, then? What was his motivation for gaining that power? At least the prequels gave pretty clear reasons for Anakin to seek out ever greater power - he wanted to prevent his loved ones from getting hurt and in extreme cases from dying.

Maybe Vader in the OT desired power for its own sake. That's a motivation and many real-life people do have it. However, many real-life people also desire money for its own sake and do some terrible things in order to gain more money. Stupid things, even. Like setting up unjust blockades or throwing a hissy fit because someone threatens their income. Maybe they might back up some shady character whom they think is totally under their control or at least on equal footing to them only to have that backfire on them badly.
*looks around*

Umm, did anyone ever dispute that desiring money for its own sake (greed) was a good motivation? No.

Fucking hell, it's like you can't even read: No one has a problem with 'greed' being a motivation. What everyone is having trouble with is how that motivation is expressed through the actions we see in the movie. Hey, the little Asian stand-in thingies want money. Alright... so how does the blockade help them with that? I've watched the movie a few times, I have yet to see how. No one here has been able to show how except by resorting to out-of-movie supposition.

But that's alright, give it another page at most and someone will forget this ever existed, the number of times this has happened is only in the double-digits now.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Tiriol »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:
Tiriol wrote:Why did he desire that power, then? What was his motivation for gaining that power? At least the prequels gave pretty clear reasons for Anakin to seek out ever greater power - he wanted to prevent his loved ones from getting hurt and in extreme cases from dying.

Maybe Vader in the OT desired power for its own sake. That's a motivation and many real-life people do have it. However, many real-life people also desire money for its own sake and do some terrible things in order to gain more money. Stupid things, even. Like setting up unjust blockades or throwing a hissy fit because someone threatens their income. Maybe they might back up some shady character whom they think is totally under their control or at least on equal footing to them only to have that backfire on them badly.
*looks around*

Umm, did anyone ever dispute that desiring money for its own sake (greed) was a good motivation? No.

Fucking hell, it's like you can't even read: No one has a problem with 'greed' being a motivation. What everyone is having trouble with is how that motivation is expressed through the actions we see in the movie. Hey, the little Asian stand-in thingies want money. Alright... so how does the blockade help them with that? I've watched the movie a few times, I have yet to see how. No one here has been able to show how except by resorting to out-of-movie supposition.

But that's alright, give it another page at most and someone will forget this ever existed, the number of times this has happened is only in the double-digits now.
When I saw The Phantom Menace for the first time I was what, 12 years old? I had no difficulty in comprehending that a ruthless corporate entity with a standing army at its beck and call would resort to violence or using threats of violence to achieve something. I had no difficulty in understanding that the taxes which were mentioned in the opening scrawl were hurting the Trade Federation in some way. Hell, now when I'm an adult I understand it even more, considering the anguished screams and crocodile tears of private sector whenever the government decides to raise some taxes. If they were as lacking in morality as the Trade Federation and had the same amount of military hardware at their command they would try to do something, however illogical it might be. And would they take direct action at a capital city? No. Like any bully they target those who are weak.

What I don't understand is why it's so hard to understand that. Why did Grand Moff Tarkin destroy Alderaan? Because it was harboring Rebels? It was never said to do so in the movie. Tarkin only wanted to demonstrate the Death Star's firepower by destroying an entire planet. How much different is the Trade Federation in this, except that they are not blowing up planets?

TPM is not an excellent movie or a priceless classic. Yet it is entertaining enough. I couldn't give two shits about the tax issue when I saw it as a child, I merely aknowledged that it was the reason behind the Trade Federation's actions. The movie has enough flaws on its own, no need to harp about supposed lack of motivation for the Trade Federation (whose leaders are portrayed as generally incompetent anyway, so them acting illogically because someone tells them it's a good idea isn't that far-fetched an idea).
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Channel72 »

Tiriol wrote:When I saw The Phantom Menace for the first time I was what, 12 years old? I had no difficulty in comprehending that a ruthless corporate entity with a standing army at its beck and call would resort to violence or using threats of violence to achieve something. I had no difficulty in understanding that the taxes which were mentioned in the opening scrawl were hurting the Trade Federation in some way. Hell, now when I'm an adult I understand it even more, considering the anguished screams and crocodile tears of private sector whenever the government decides to raise some taxes. If they were as lacking in morality as the Trade Federation and had the same amount of military hardware at their command they would try to do something, however illogical it might be. And would they take direct action at a capital city? No. Like any bully they target those who are weak.
We all understand the basic premise of TPM. But what does the Trade Federation stand to gain from invading Naboo? We don't know. I guess it just somehow benefits them financially. Very few movies fail to explain exactly what the antagonists hope to gain from their evil actions.
What I don't understand is why it's so hard to understand that. Why did Grand Moff Tarkin destroy Alderaan? Because it was harboring Rebels? It was never said to do so in the movie. Tarkin only wanted to demonstrate the Death Star's firepower by destroying an entire planet. How much different is the Trade Federation in this, except that they are not blowing up planets?
Jesus Christ, it's explicitly stated *in dialogue* that Tarkin destroyed Alderaan just to demonstrate the Death Star's firepower. There is no dialogue explaining what the Trade Federation stands to gain from invading Naboo.

I love all of these "but the OT is also vague!" attempts to defend the Prequels, because they keep failing so pathetically.
Oni Koneko Damien wrote:But that's alright, give it another page at most and someone will forget this ever existed, the number of times this has happened is only in the double-digits now.
Yeah, one of these days somebody needs to write some innovative forum software designed specifically for serious debating. The recent flurry of posts from Raynor and other Prequel defenders just repeats the same points, attacks strawmen arguments, and consistently fails to even acknowledge the existence of the actual arguments being made here. It sort of just makes the whole conversation boring, since people just talk past each other. Ideally, debate forum software should have some way of allowing users to specify key points which have been raised, so it's easier to track whether or not they've been directly addressed in rebuttals.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Gunhead »

Elfdart wrote:

Why? Because the truth hurts and Stoklassa's fanboys really are a bunch of flaming retards? On the contrary: It needs to be repeated often.

No it doesn't. There's basically two ways you can go about this. 1) Taxes and greed was sufficient motivation for the TF 2) They should have expanded on the subject
Otherwise you're just screeching about subjective opinions and now it's at a point it's not even fun to read anymore.
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Could have fooled me.


Then I guess you're easily fooled?
Elfdart wrote: You want to see the Senate vote to tax the trade routes? You want to see Gunray sign his pact with Sidious?
:lol:

In ANH, Tarkin walks into a meeting room and tells everyone that the Emperor just dismissed the Senate. Are you disappointed that they didn't shoot such a scene? If so, your idea of film-making sounds like Super Shadow's wish/wank list.
Grasping for straws much? The whole what motivates the TF is closely tied to the threat they represent.. and at this point they could be taken out by the care brears as far as how threatening they are. I mean, fuck these morons can't tie their shoelaces without their dark shadowy master telling them to do so. Battle hardened army my ass, in the TPM their greatest achievement is capturing the SW military equivalent of Iceland. Woop woop. Greedy? Okay greed works too, but greed doesn't equal money. Money is something you get out of the ATM, money is something you buy groceries with and money is something you use to motivate a heist movie. Money is a piss poor motivator for a planetary invasion and we allready know the whole taxation issue is just a thin veneer for more sinister plots. True, saying the TF gets money is not contradictory to the elements in place, but just as easily I can say: "The TF is just fucking Naboo over as an example to other similar systems that TF is the big dog on the block and they're willing to expend disproportionate amounts of resources to fuck people over who don't toe their line". I think mine is much more menacing, don't ya think? This could have been really established too in the othwerwise useless senate scene where Amidala does nothing else except tick the next box in Palpy's "Evil will triumph because good is dumb" list. In ANH the EVIL empire is made to look really fucking evil by blowing up a planet.. with a gigantic fucking laser. Subtle? No, but good god man that's making a fucking statement. In it's simplicity is what makes it so great, no deep thoughts required. "You do as we say or we blow your planet up".
But I guess these days kids are satisfied with people who have a mortal fear of bathrobe people to act as the villains with another darker bathrobe man telling them to wipe their noses and start doing shit.

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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Tiriol »

Channel72 wrote:
Tiriol wrote:When I saw The Phantom Menace for the first time I was what, 12 years old? I had no difficulty in comprehending that a ruthless corporate entity with a standing army at its beck and call would resort to violence or using threats of violence to achieve something. I had no difficulty in understanding that the taxes which were mentioned in the opening scrawl were hurting the Trade Federation in some way. Hell, now when I'm an adult I understand it even more, considering the anguished screams and crocodile tears of private sector whenever the government decides to raise some taxes. If they were as lacking in morality as the Trade Federation and had the same amount of military hardware at their command they would try to do something, however illogical it might be. And would they take direct action at a capital city? No. Like any bully they target those who are weak.
We all understand the basic premise of TPM. But what does the Trade Federation stand to gain from invading Naboo? We don't know. I guess it just somehow benefits them financially. Very few movies fail to explain exactly what the antagonists hope to gain from their evil actions.
What I don't understand is why it's so hard to understand that. Why did Grand Moff Tarkin destroy Alderaan? Because it was harboring Rebels? It was never said to do so in the movie. Tarkin only wanted to demonstrate the Death Star's firepower by destroying an entire planet. How much different is the Trade Federation in this, except that they are not blowing up planets?
Jesus Christ, it's explicitly stated *in dialogue* that Tarkin destroyed Alderaan just to demonstrate the Death Star's firepower. There is no dialogue explaining what the Trade Federation stands to gain from invading Naboo.

I love all of these "but the OT is also vague!" attempts to defend the Prequels, because they keep failing so pathetically.
I do notice that you cut out the part where I mentioned that the Trade Federation leadership was portrayed as generally incompetent and apparently easily dubed to do something illogical just because someone tells them that it will be a good idea in the long run. But who cares about the fact that the Trade Fed executives were a bunch of cowards, easily scared by a mere appearance of POSSIBLE Jedi and willing to fire upon Republic ambassadors when a dude in a robe told them to do so. I mean, it doesn't show them to be easily an easily controlled and manipulated bunch, nossir.

You are right though, that at least one part of dialogue could have been added to explain what the Trade Federation wanted to do with the blockade of Naboo. For me it seemed a simple enough, though - they held Naboo as hostage to protest the taxes. Was it logical or reasonable? From their point of view, maybe, although they were goaded into doing so by Lord Sidious, who didn't give two shits about the Federation's profit margin. In any case, your point has merit and I can't say that I wouldn't have thought about the same thing myself.
Oni Koneko Damien wrote:But that's alright, give it another page at most and someone will forget this ever existed, the number of times this has happened is only in the double-digits now.
Yeah, one of these days somebody needs to write some innovative forum software designed specifically for serious debating. The recent flurry of posts from Raynor and other Prequel defenders just repeats the same points, attacks strawmen arguments, and consistently fails to even acknowledge the existence of the actual arguments being made here. It sort of just makes the whole conversation boring, since people just talk past each other. Ideally, debate forum software should have some way of allowing users to specify key points which have been raised, so it's easier to track whether or not they've been directly addressed in rebuttals.
The same kind of software might be useful to also point out how many times the same issues have been raised by the Prequel bashers and how many times they have been answered.

Personally I have no investment in whether someone considers the film to be good, bad or average. I find it rather average: it had nice ideas and good actors, but stilted dialogue, a sloppy execution and emotionally it was somewhat lacking (I actually find Jake Lloyd rather good at portraying a generally care-free and good-natured little kid, although I was never that hyper, but then again I have always been an annoying know-it-all who lacked social grace). The plot could have been explained better and a better director could have gotten (much) more out of the actors.

However, I find the entire Internet argument over the film ridiculous: it's totally out of proportion to any flaws and merits the movie might have. I find it also morbid how
entrenched both sides are and how much RedLetter Media has been glorified as a sort of demigod or prophet (personally I just can't stand his performance) of the so-called Prequel basher side. I do wonder, though, what would be Lucas's opinion of his own movie and the shit storm it has raised.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Sir Sirius »

Tiriol wrote:I do notice that you cut out the part where I mentioned that the Trade Federation leadership was portrayed as generally incompetent and apparently easily dubed to do something illogical just because someone tells them that it will be a good idea in the long run. But who cares about the fact that the Trade Fed executives were a bunch of cowards, easily scared by a mere appearance of POSSIBLE Jedi and willing to fire upon Republic ambassadors when a dude in a robe told them to do so. I mean, it doesn't show them to be easily an easily controlled and manipulated bunch, nossir.
The way Nute Gunray was portrayed might well be a significant reason why people are so dissatisfied with the Trade Federations motivations. Vader and the Emperor in the OT were both portrayed as menacing and ruthless characters, in fact that was the dominant aspect of screen presence for both of them. And the same goes for the Imperium in wider view as well, starting from Peter Cushings looks, faceless stormtroopers and the design of the Imperial uniforms to the speciest comments about Chewbacca. The villains of the OT were overtly, obviously and convincingly villainous and as a result viewers won't be asking for much in the way of explanations for their villainy, unanswered questions about their motives don't bother people because the questions are never raised.

By comparison the Trade Federation higher ups were portrayed as cowardly nincompoops with comic relief robots for an army. Based on Qui-Gons comments at the start of TPM not even the good guys of the film consider the Trade Federation to be menacing.

I'm inclined to think that the reason many are so dissatisfied with the lack of convincing motive for the Trade Federation is that, not only isn't there one, but the discrepancy between the villainous actions and the seemingly non-villainous appearance and demeanour of Nute Gunray and the Trade Federation causes people to pay attention to the question of their motives. Evil is as evil does, but when evil doesn't seem to be evil it calls for attention.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Tiriol wrote:However, I find the entire Internet argument over the film ridiculous: it's totally out of proportion to any flaws and merits the movie might have. I find it also morbid how
entrenched both sides are and how much RedLetter Media has been glorified as a sort of demigod or prophet (personally I just can't stand his performance) of the so-called Prequel basher side. I do wonder, though, what would be Lucas's opinion of his own movie and the shit storm it has raised.
I'm only addressing this because, while everything you said has already been addressed and refuted multiple times, including this, this is really the only thing that links directly back to the OP.

So, umm... who's 'glorifying' RLM as 'a sort of demigod or prophet'? Would you care to produce some examples of posters? The closest I see is D13 saying he likes RLM's style and agrees with many of the points it brings up, other than that most posters seem to hold a rather neutral tone or really don't care either way.

On the other hand I do see people like Raynor and Elfdart doing their damndest to characterize anyone who has issues with the prequels as 'RLM fanboys' (to put it lightly), despite being repeatedly told by nearly everyone they sputter at that most people just don't give a shit about RLM and have their own criticisms of TPM. Then again you also completely misunderstood people's issue with the unclear fashion in which the villains' alleged motivations translated into on-screen actions, something that was also repeatedly misunderstood and strawmanned by Raynor and Elfdart and, again, debunked and explained by other posters.

To be honest it seems like you're more convinced of the strawmen Raynor and Elfdart are erecting rather than the actual positions of those on the other side of the debate. I ask again: Are you actually reading what is being posted, or just jumping to conclusions based on superficial assumptions?
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Metahive »

So, Vader, who's consistently portrayed as a big bully (beats down on those he considers weak and grovels before his superiors) and a devout follower of an oppressive, tyrannical government, has unclear motivations despite all his actions being in line with the aforementioned characterisation? As unclear as Gunray's, who's said to be member of a "greedy" organisation yet who never acts greedily ever? In TPM the TF creates an expensive army, undertakes an expensive and unproductive blockade of some backyard world and then engages in an even more expensive invasion and occupation of said world yet there's no hint as to why they'd throw out that much funds when there's no apparent gain. O wait, it's just because Nicolae Jetty Palpacarpathia asked them to. I mean, if some nobody in a hood asks you to throw away money like mad for nothing it's of course in your best interest to do so. Not.

O yeah, and then the TF hangs on to a leader who's shown to be an inept loser. Instead of doing the reasonable thing and scapegoating him for the entire fiasco. I mean, Gunray so enriched the movies that we needed him to be around for all three of them, right? RIGHT? Stop laughing, this is serious!

As for the Sith, how about this:

ANAKIN: "Master Obi-Wan, what was it that killed Master Qui-Gon?"
OBI-WAN: "A Sith, a member of an ancient order of force-sensitives who enslaved themselves to their unsatiable lust for power. A millenium ago they were all but wiped out by the Republic with our help. Or so we thought."
ANAKIN: "(for himself) "Power..."

I think sacrificing thirty seconds of the pod-race to get those or similar bits of dialogue in wouldn't have been unreasonable. It would have been natural for Anakin to inquire the means of Qui-gon's demise and offered a short but succinct explanation of what the Sith are, why they're evil and why they'd be hell-bent on revenge against the Jedi (as was alluded to earlier by Maul). Again, the lines practically write themselves! Why leave the audience in the dark when there's no reason to?

Instead we get that stupid "Always two there are" line, completely pointless exposition. Why not let the Jedi fret how much more Sith there may be instead of giving the concrete-minded hacks who write the majority the EU stuff an excuse to invent that stupid, stupid "Rule of Two"?

I think that's what really enrages me so much about the PT, all those near-misses to decent writing! I think if said writing had simply been Manos-level awful I'd have forgiven it easier.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Metahive wrote: As for the Sith, how about this:

ANAKIN: "Master Obi-Wan, what was it that killed Master Qui-Gon?"
OBI-WAN: "A Sith, a member of an ancient order of force-sensitives who enslaved themselves to their unsatiable lust for power. A millenium ago they were all but wiped out by the Republic with our help. Or so we thought."
ANAKIN: "(for himself) "Power..."

I think sacrificing thirty seconds of the pod-race to get those or similar bits of dialogue in wouldn't have been unreasonable.
Not bad, but I think it would have made even more sense for someone to warn the queen about the Sith before they returned to Naboo.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Metahive »

Like this?

QUI-GON : "Your highness, before our return to Naboo we must warn you. There might be darker forces are involved in this whole affair, darker forces who we believed defeated a millenium ago...the Sith!"
AMIDALA : " The Sith...? My mother used to threaten me with them every time I refused to eat up [laughs] >Eat up Padme, for the evil Sith come and claim all unruly children<. I thought they were a myth, Master Jedi."
QUI-GON : "That might have been their greatest trick."

Yeah, again, the lines write themselves.
Last edited by Metahive on 2011-10-21 02:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Good stuff. Of course, we're morons and RLM fanboys for wanting things like that.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Metahive »

I really think that the prequel movies are almost great movies. The ingredients are there, the setting is there it's just that the writing takes some rather bone-headed and unintuitive turns for the worse that ruins the whole concoction utterly. Just a few tweaks, just a few!

It's like watching a 100m dash where the prodigy who lead by a mile before the other guys decides to sit down and take a crap on the second-to-last inch of the course, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. You scream and shout why the fuck he's thrown a sure victory away pointlessly away like that and all you get is a shrug plus a bunch of guys who claim loudly that he took the completely correct and logical course of action and everyone who objects must be morally or mentally deficient in some way (o yeah, and the father of the prodigy was a stinker too).

I mean take the 3D Clone Wars, we get Anakin as a decent, upright man who still displays the seeds of his later downfall. If a bunch of cartoon writers were able to write him in this way, why was it impossible to have him like that on the silver screen too?

I really wanted to like the PT, but it wouldn't let me.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by emersonlakeandbalmer »

Jim Raynor wrote:
emersonlakeandbalmer wrote:Do me a favor, could you link to the multiple times someone brought up hunting wildlife? Can you name the person that said this without looking it up? Are they even still posting on this thread?
You're a joke. Yes, the person said it, and is still in this thread. And yes, he's still carrying on as if he hadn't completely embarassed himself already.
This is a great start! See you cited something, now you can direct your issue towards that person if you desire a concession. I personally don't give a shit about wildlife, I think the greater point is the blockade shows zero affect on the people of Naboo. I'll get to that next. Just stop lying and proclaiming all posters being negative towards the prequels are the same person.
Maybe you could argue the point about how the blockade was affecting the planet since it was never shown in the movie?
Most people can understand the simple concept that being blockaded is bad, you know. When I was a kid sitting in elementary school, hearing about how the Union blockaded the Confederacy during the Civil War (the first time I even HEARD the word "blockade"), the teacher didn't need to specify the all critical goods being denied to the South. She briefly described what a blockade even was, and I thought to myself "Hmm, that makes sense."

Apparently, this is too difficult a concept for some of the pseudointellectual armchair film critics in this thread.
So we are in agreement. You can't cite any examples of the blockades effect because it was never shown. Here's a question. Was your elementary teacher trying to make an entertaining story or was she just telling you some shit that would be on a test later? Because everyone knows a blockade is an inherently bad thing, but when you don't show its effects in a film or its benefit to the enemy, you lose a little something called dramatic tension. A thing TPM has nothing of because all the obstacles for the heroes are a complete non-threat.
Do you want me to take it back for "them" since "they" won't do it? Are you a child? Because that's what it sounds like.
I want you (as in all of you bringing up this stream of utter nonsense) to open your eyes and see how utterly stupid you're coming across as.
Ok, then support your arguments and convince me how TPM is good storytelling. Now I want you to answer the question I asked earlier "How does the blockade get them money? Please provide an answer from the film that explains how they benefit financially from the blockade. If you or Elfdart could simply do this or concede the point we can move on to something else you don't understand about the RLM review."

Don't bring up wildlife to me, just answer a direct question with evidence. Destructionator XIII present his hypothesis and provided examples from the movie. Can you do as much? Things that are not evidence:

1. The Crawl saying they are greedy: Being greedy and having actions to get money are two different things, show me the actions that support the blockade getting them wealth.
2. Underlining the word TRADE: That means nothing and it proves nothing. Destructionator XIII took those same words and made a far more plausible explanation for the taxes.
3.Saying children understand it: Children also understand teletubbies, that does not make it well written.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Scottish Ninja »

Destructionator XIII wrote: j) The blockade ends because their invasion means they can collect their taxes on the ground. Might as well send the ships elsewhere.
It fits, doesn't it?
That works, but you shouldn't forget a big part of it, which is that with the spaceports occupied by ground troops, the ships aren't needed to enforce a blockade, whether at that point you're enforcing one or not, and it wouldn't be profitable to keep them there. That goes double if the ships are just armed freighters (which I don't think was ever established in the movie, the EU aside) in which case they're needed elsewhere to actually carry cargo and turn a profit. Of course, if your goal is to extract wealth from Naboo, then it makes sense to lift the blockade in general, and then tax the traffic going through the spaceports, since you do control them. Smugglers wouldn't be that big of an issue because whatever light ships they can land in fields anywhere would be small potatoes compared with the freighters that would need large spaceport facilities to unload.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Elfdart »

Gunhead wrote: Grasping for straws much? The whole what motivates the TF is closely tied to the threat they represent.. and at this point they could be taken out by the care brears as far as how threatening they are. I mean, fuck these morons can't tie their shoelaces without their dark shadowy master telling them to do so.
You're getting warmer...

Ah fuck it, I'll explain once again: The TF are flunkies, as is shown time and again. They are not meant to scary or particularly menacing. They're simply Peter Lorre (complete with goggly eyes and C. European accents) on a galactic scale -which is to say they are patsies for the real villain.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Elfdart »

Destructionator XIII wrote:For everyone saying the story was clear, even to children (which is a fallacious statement on so many levels), check this out and see if you still feel the same way about taxes:


(repost from page 6)

Let's look at the movie.

Starting with the opening:
Turmoil has engulfed the
Galactic Republic. The taxation
of trade routes to outlying star
systems is in dispute.

Hoping to resolve the matter
with a blockade of deadly
battleships, the greedy Trade
Federation has stopped all
shipping to the small planet
of Naboo.
OK, are Naboo taxing the Trade Federation who wants to stop it, or are the Trade Federation taxing Naboo, who is refusing to pay it?
Neither, asshole: the Senate imposed the tax, as was pointed out in the movie. This is more than just a false dilemma fallacy, it's proof of just what a lying, trolling fuckhead you really are.
I'm going with the latter, because it's the opposite of the assumption made by everyone else, and I'm going to show how the script supports this interpretation BETTER than the usual one I'm a dishonest troll who knows that only by pulling some convoluted horseshit out of my ass about the Federation taxing Naboo can I even try to make a movie every nine-year-old in the world understands seem overly complicated and poorly thought out.
You stand corrected.
It fits, doesn't it?
Your head up Stoklassa's ass, maybe.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:
Tiriol wrote:Why did he desire that power, then? What was his motivation for gaining that power? At least the prequels gave pretty clear reasons for Anakin to seek out ever greater power - he wanted to prevent his loved ones from getting hurt and in extreme cases from dying.

Maybe Vader in the OT desired power for its own sake. That's a motivation and many real-life people do have it. However, many real-life people also desire money for its own sake and do some terrible things in order to gain more money. Stupid things, even. Like setting up unjust blockades or throwing a hissy fit because someone threatens their income. Maybe they might back up some shady character whom they think is totally under their control or at least on equal footing to them only to have that backfire on them badly.
*looks around*

Umm, did anyone ever dispute that desiring money for its own sake (greed) was a good motivation? No.

Fucking hell, it's like you can't even read: No one has a problem with 'greed' being a motivation. What everyone is having trouble with is how that motivation is expressed through the actions we see in the movie.
Translation: You need everything spelled out for you because you're too stupid and lack the imagination to keep up with a Star Wars movie.
Hey, the little Asian stand-in thingies want money.


Who says they're Asian? Is this what's got your panties in a bunch about the movie? :lol:
Alright... so how does the blockade help them with that?


Who cares?
I've watched the movie a few times, I have yet to see how.


Because you have no imagination and are a complete moron.
No one here has been able to show how except by resorting to out-of-movie supposition.
It's already been explained well enough for non-retards.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by emersonlakeandbalmer »

Elfdart wrote:
Hey, the little Asian stand-in thingies want money.


Who says they're Asian? Is this what's got your panties in a bunch about the movie? :lol:
Are you deaf? Just curious because if your could hear you'd know the difference between an asian accent and a c. european accent. But please go on, this is helping to explain a lot about your position.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Bakustra »

Ah, yes, Peter Lorre, best-known for his role as a patsy of the real villain in Fritz Lang's M., or his role as a patsy Nazi junior officer in Casablanca, or the well-known villainous patsy Conseil in Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, or to bring it back to Asian caricatures, the nefarious and villainous, (but still amazingly a patsy despite being a starring role) Mr. Moto.

The only major role he had that arguably fits the term "patsy" is Joel Cairo in The Maltese Falcon. Honestly, it's almost as though your entire knowledge of pop culture that isn't Star Wars or Indiana Jones comes from watching Looney Tunes while stoked.

PS: If the Trade Federation had a tenth of the ability that was put into M. and it's "villain" put towards them, The Phantom Menace would not have the reputation it does. Hell, if the Trade Fed had the ability that Lorre put into his Roger Corman roles, then TPM would also not have the reputation it does.
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