New Redletter Media video about Lucas

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Bakustra
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Bakustra »

In addition, it's not like Sauron is a good villain by the standards we're discussing here, either. He's not a character, and before you jump in with anything about how none of the prequel villains are characters, Tolkien communicates this by keeping him entirely off-screen. All we see of him is his eye in visions, and a brief vision at the moment of his death. Sauron is meant to be a stand-in for the Devil and for the Christian idea that evil wields incredible temporal power.

Similarly, Anton Chigurh in No Country for Old Men has no real comprehensible motivation for many of his actions, which are entirely ancillary to his quest of retrieving money for his employers. This is because he's not a character so much as a representation of violence; and so he takes random actions to showcase the senseless and chaotic nature of violence.

But Gunray is not really emblematic in that way, and in order to make him such, he needs to be built up entirely differently. And that is why people say that his lack of motivation is a bad thing- because motivationless characters are bad in a story.
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I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Anguirus »

:lol: You just keep me coming back, you are endlessly entertaining. It really matters to you that I think TPM is just
as bad and in the same fucking ways as you do, don't you? Because if I DON'T agree with you on everything I'm a subhuman fanboy, right? I can't merely think that TPM is the worst Star Wars movie and a mediocre sci-fi/fantasy story, apparently, I have to agree that it's totally incomprehensible. :lol:

Keep in mind, I pointed out that most small children understand WHO THE FUCKING SITH ARE, rather than anything else. Can't you keep track of an interaction that's only two posts long?

And yes, I actually do have a crystal-clear memory of walking out of the Davie, FL Muvico 24 Egyptian Theater with my dad after having seen The Phantom Menace. It was my first time seeing a new SW movie in the theater. Not a lot of confusion going on with me. I made a comment on how different the score sounded, and my dad convinced me that was a good thing (I'd watched the OT a hundred times and was very used to that score). I know I liked the movie more than my dad (I was the target audience, after all) but we both agreed it didn't quite stack up to what had come before. I didn't ask him what the Neimoidians were up to, or what the Sith were all about. In fact it was my dad who didn't know that "Sith" was a concept that had already been kicking around in SW literature, since it's not from OT dialogue.

As for your other list of concerns, frankly I think that most kids and audience members accept the handwave that the movie presents. The root issue is not very well explained, but the details of that explanation are not really that important for the film to proceed. Really, it seems vastly more relevant to most people that the Neimoidians are "Asian stereotypes" than that their actions and motivations (of all things! they are Captain Planet villains and until this thread I'd never heard of this issue) aren't clear. Reviews also complained about the boring-ass scenes on Coruscant, and didn't even put in the effort to find the actual logic holes in them that we have. This is the difference between criticism and nit-picking (though both are good fun).
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This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Bakustra »

So you came in with prior knowledge from the books, then? That's what your post seems to be implying to me.

But you ignored what Destructionator was saying, too, that this is a representative flaw of the PT as a whole.
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I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Anguirus »

It isn't that the movie would somehow be good with one line explaining taxes, but rather that with one line Lucas could easily fix a glaring issue with his story.
Absolutely. Lucas is a very clumsy writer of dialogue. He had to bring in another writer to help him last-minute for AotC and that movie still doesn't make any goddamn sense.
But Gunray is not really emblematic in that way, and in order to make him such, he needs to be built up entirely differently. And that is why people say that his lack of motivation is a bad thing- because motivationless characters are bad in a story.
...except above you just admitted that they aren't inherently bad. They are only bad if they are not "emblems." Well, why isn't Gunray an emblem? He's not an elemental force, but him or a character like him is essential because without patsies, Darth Sidious is not a "phantom" menace at all. He's also required to be a weak character so that he can freak out over the power of the Jedi (the film's best sequence is probably when he is flipping out over the Jedi crushing all his troops). Fine, got it, done, don't need his life story.
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Bakustra »

So what does Gunray do to make himself a symbol of something greater? What is that something greater? Is he an avatar of pathetic?
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I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Anguirus »

Bakustra wrote:So you came in with prior knowledge from the books, then? That's what your post seems to be implying to me.

But you ignored what Destructionator was saying, too, that this is a representative flaw of the PT as a whole.
In a sense, but the pre-TPM Sith were actually retconned to hell and back. Only thing they kept was the name, evilness, and Darth Vader being a member. Two members, extinctified by the Jedi before the OT, all of that was new. Before the PT they were a SPECIES, and some "Dark Jedi" claimed the title by lording over them or something.

Can we not pretend that this "the Sith are so confusing!" argument existed before someone came up with it on page 16? It's a disingenuous complaint. How about you find me a child who has been exposed to post-TPM Star Wars who doesn't understand that the Sith are evil space wizards with a grudge against Jedi? :lol:

And I have been expounding on the horrible flaws in the PT in this whole thread. Just because I think your chosen irrelevancies miss the point doesn't change that.
So what does Gunray do to make himself a symbol of something greater? What is that something greater? Is he an avatar of pathetic?
Well...yeah! He's Looten Plunder without self-esteem.
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Anguirus wrote:Can we not pretend that this "the Sith are so confusing!" argument existed before someone came up with it on page 16? It's a disingenuous complaint.
How soon we forget.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Bakustra »

Anguirus wrote: In a sense, but the pre-TPM Sith were actually retconned to hell and back. Only thing they kept was the name, evilness, and Darth Vader being a member. Two members, extinctified by the Jedi before the OT, all of that was new. Before the PT they were a SPECIES, and some "Dark Jedi" claimed the title by lording over them or something.

Can we not pretend that this "the Sith are so confusing!" argument existed before someone came up with it on page 16? It's a disingenuous complaint. How about you find me a child who has been exposed to post-TPM Star Wars who doesn't understand that the Sith are evil space wizards with a grudge against Jedi? :lol:

And I have been expounding on the horrible flaws in the PT in this whole thread. Just because I think your chosen irrelevancies miss the point doesn't change that.
They are an example of bad writing because they allude to an important event they want to get revenge on the Jedi for. What was this event? Why do they have to exist? They have no purpose in the movies except to create an dichotomy that in practice speaks against the Daoist principles of the Force as espoused in the OT. So they could at least have some explanation behind why they want revenge, so that they have a purpose beyond just being there!
Well...yeah! He's Looten Plunder without self-esteem.
So how does the movie show us this? What polluting does he do, if he's literally a Captain Planet villain? If he's supposed to be platonic patheticness, that's a)inappropriate for an adventure movie, or indeed any movie that's not a surrealist farce, and b)undermined by him objecting to anything people say, which ties back into a). If he's supposed to be Captain Capitalism, his dialogue doesn't reflect that. He doesn't reflect on how much money he's going to make off these Naboo suckers, he doesn't even seem overly concerned with cash beyond what is told to us by others. It's certainly never shown. Replacing all the fart and poop jokes with jokes about him being miserly would be at least a minor step towards that.
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I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Anguirus »

Galvatron wrote:
Anguirus wrote:Can we not pretend that this "the Sith are so confusing!" argument existed before someone came up with it on page 16? It's a disingenuous complaint.
How soon we forget.
Oh snap! Conceded! I remembered there was some thread on RLM/TPM before but didn;t have the events of a year and a half ago memorized completely. I like Wong's response though! :lol:

Holy shite, we are just retreading the same fucking ground aren't we? Except I was wittier and less irritated back then. Can we all just like...get beers and move on with our lives or something? Shit, I still haven't even bothered to see this guy's review.
Bakustra wrote: They are an example of bad writing because they allude to an important event they want to get revenge on the Jedi for.
Nooo, this is an example of not necessarily bad writing that Lucas likes to indulge in. He likes implied history, and the sense of seeing only one part of a larger epic/universe. That's the whole stated reason for adding "Episode IV: A New Hope" to the first movie.

We already know all that we need to know about this event. Who the fuck cares how the Jedi killed off the Sith? We know that they did, and even when.

You remain disturbed that the film is not filled with trivia. Granted, trivia > fart jokes and Gungans.
What polluting does he do, if he's literally a Captain Planet villain?
We see his forces bulldoze a fucking forest, man! Oh god, that made my night. :D
If he's supposed to be platonic patheticness, that's a)inappropriate for an adventure movie, or indeed any movie that's not a surrealist farce, and b)undermined by him objecting to anything people say, which ties back into a)
a) Why? That's just some statement you made.
b) Wait, what? So a villain can't symbolize anything unless he's a perfect symbol, with no human qualities? That's something else you just pulled out of your ass, dude!
If he's supposed to be Captain Capitalism, his dialogue doesn't reflect that. He doesn't reflect on how much money he's going to make off these Naboo suckers, he doesn't even seem overly concerned with cash beyond what is told to us by others. It's certainly never shown. Replacing all the fart and poop jokes with jokes about him being miserly would be at least a minor step towards that.
Yeeeah, much as anything would be better than poop jokes, that's a little heavy-handed for my taste. YMMV. (While we are at it, having Darth Sidious electrocute a puppy would have conveyed critical information to the audience.)
Destructionator wrote: For example, I watched "The Defector" (TNG episode) again this last Saturday. I noticed things I hadn't noticed before: the Romulan's poison disc in his boot. Worf being sent to deal with something.
Wait a minute. No, I really mean it...put a pin in this damn debate for the moment.

Are you my alternate personality or something? I just went on a TNG on Netflix kick, just watched that very episode, and just noticed those two little bits of business for the first time! *Trekkerbrofist*
The thing with TPM is the more you think about it, the less sense it makes.
Yeah, if you squint at it you see the "blarg taxes blarg INVASION" handwave. Is that all you're getting at, or was there something else? Cause like, ok, it's a handwave, and it's crappy, but then things still kind of work because it's still just some excuse that happened before the movie. When we get to the movie, the situation is that the TF has to be kicked off Naboo.

Also, the more you think about it, the more you realize why it's actually an unsatisfying experience. It drags in the middle, it takes too long to introduce Anakin and he's either useless or enjoying some contrived success. Oh, and Jar Jar just EATS screen time and craps it out as dreck.
which you haven't shown objectively btw.
I have to poll children now? The fact that you're even using the word "objectively" is kind of symptomatic of your preoccupation that there is only one valid opinion of not only that TPM is bad, but of HOW bad it is. It's a bit much to ask. You and I and the rest of us are each a data point of one, i.e. an anecdote. There is no objectivity to be had.
And even this doesn't work well for TPM because it contradicts itself from time to time!
Where? Or is this another incarnation of the "characters disagree whether the blockade is legal" thing?
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

I think the problem is the prequationists are confusing 'children understand the movie' with 'children are entertained by the movie'. The former cannot be true because there is literally nothing there to understand as far as a sensible plot and themes are concerned. However there are lots of pretty scenes, explosions, and things with funny voices, and children love that shit. They don't care about themes otherwise they'd be asking what Barney the Dinosaur's motivation is. And that's what TPM and the prequels in general are: They're the big foam-filled purple dinosaur of the Star Wars franchise.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Anguirus »

Destructionator XIII wrote:Eye gust thaught up teh brillent anal g. Rightten poorly Iz dis p0st?

evn a st00pid kid kan g3t it

so r u teh st00pid for saying it be teh HARD TWO READ

or did i do a poor job composing it

?
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(Yes, I get it, just thought this was funny :P )

May I suggest a different analogy? It's as if I published a critique of the writings of a creationist, and you responded "You MISSED THE POINT! You didn't mention the typo on page 20!"

Are you in fact unable to perceive me as anything but a Lucas apologist, even though I said he was an awful screenwriter tonight in this thread?
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
My blog, please check out and comment! http://decepticylon.blogspot.com
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Elfdart »

emersonlakeandbalmer wrote: The 17 pages of harping is sadly wasted trying to explain why this "tax" issue is just one example of bad story telling (it may not bother some people but I real don't know how its been argued as anything other than bad writing).
I didn't think there was anything bad about the TF/tax issue. Not every villain craves "UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAH!" Some just want money.
It isn't that the movie would somehow be good with one line explaining taxes, but rather that with one line Lucas could easily fix a glaring issue with his story.
The only people claiming it's a "glaring issue with his story" are Stoklassa and his admirers, almost all of whom are ignorant fuckwits.

It's wasted because Heathcliff's cockgoblins (yes, this means you) are so mindnumbingly stupid and dishonest. To anyone who has not gone Full Retard, it's pretty straightforward: Taxes were levied on trade routes; the Trade Federation (like almost every real-world business) doesn't want to pay more taxes than they absolutely have to, and will resort to underhanded measures to avoid paying (just to make sure the slower members of the audience can keep up, they are described as greedy), and makes a pact with the Devil a Sith Lord who promises them what they want (wonder what that could be! :roll:), provided they do what he says. Only a bullshitter or an imbecile has a hard time getting the gist of the plot from this movie.

What's really funny is the clutching for straws the Red Letter Retards have to engage in.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Anguirus »

Hey, I had some pretty good material back in 2010 when I actually cared!

I recently suggested to someone in a PM that the real problem with the prequels is that there's one too many and one of them has an ok structure with nothing entertaining in it (TPM) and another is packed full of fun but is a total vomitous mess in terms of structure (AotC). So really, we needed to marry the structure of TPM with the content of AotC, and then just have RotS. :D
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
My blog, please check out and comment! http://decepticylon.blogspot.com
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by emersonlakeandbalmer »

Elfdart wrote:
It isn't that the movie would somehow be good with one line explaining taxes, but rather that with one line Lucas could easily fix a glaring issue with his story.
The only people claiming it's a "glaring issue with his story" are Stoklassa and his admirers, almost all of whom are ignorant fuckwits.

It's wasted because Heathcliff's cockgoblins (yes, this means you) are so mindnumbingly stupid and dishonest. To anyone who has not gone Full Retard, it's pretty straightforward: Taxes were levied on trade routes; the Trade Federation (like almost every real-world business) doesn't want to pay more taxes than they absolutely have to, and will resort to underhanded measures to avoid paying (just to make sure the slower members of the audience can keep up, they are described as greedy), and makes a pact with the Devil a Sith Lord who promises them what they want (wonder what that could be! :roll:), provided they do what he says. Only a bullshitter or an imbecile has a hard time getting the gist of the plot from this movie.

What's really funny is the clutching for straws the Red Letter Retards have to engage in.
Cockgoblin!!!!! HAHAHAHAH You did it again! Damn girl, you so funny. Like are you saying I'm a goblin who's also a cock? Or like a cock who is transformed into a goblin... wait a minute I bet this is one of your clever puns like "red letter moroon 5". Are you implying goblin, like it gobbling? HAHAHAHAH You're fucking killing it! Damn you so smart, almost pulled a fast one on me.

And thank god. I was worried you wouldn't respond with the same thing you've been saying over and over again with nothing new to add. Please continue to repeat things as though they are true. Its fun to read about scenes that are "straightforward" because you've been backing them up with great examples. Like the time Nute said, "Fuck the senate! those taxes are bullshit, lest invade this planet, but when we do it no body destroy nothing." and his second in command was all like "But don't we own the senate? What about the blue dude with the horns? Why are we taxing ourselves?" and Nute was all "Is that regal?" Then an 8 year old blew up their ship accidentally.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Gunhead »

Anguirus has a fair point about the Sith not needing more expose and while I'm firmly in the more expose for the Sith camp, it's still a matter of individual taste and I'll leave it at that. Unless.. you want to use the Sith as a character motivator. For this they suck ass as far as the movies go. Well they suck ass even if you include the EU material but at least then you can pick and choose the more interesting parts and just dump the rest.
Name dropping is really bad when it's not followed up in any meaningful way. This is what the Sith in the prequels amount to. Sure the Jedi speak about them as some great ancient foe that has been extinct for generations and terms like "Sith lord" and such are bandied about and then somehow me as the viewer is expected to give a shit, even if I really don't know the first thing about them.You could say "oh but the Jedi think this is serious", well that would work a lot better if the Jedi weren't such cardboard characters. If your story involves the ye olde two sides of the same coin aspect, you should give both sides some solid background and not just expect people to accept your view by basically telling them "These are the good guys, those are the bad". I'm still waiting to see if someone picks up the challenge O.K Damien put forth, that should be good for a laugh or two. Similar challenge could be proposed about the Jedi Order too. It's pretty hilarious really, the movie tries so hard to make the destruction of the jedi order evocative, and I'm thinking "And I should get all weepy.. because???"

By the way, this "oh you just don't get it" shit needs to stop. I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread gets what's going on in the movies. We in fact get told a lot of shit that should have been shown, not told. Sometimes I feel watching the PT is like watching a powerpoint slideshow with "bullet points" and the presentor just monotonely goes through them even though everyone in the room can see his end conclusion.. which is the last "bullet point". God I hate powerpoint.

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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Channel72 »

Anguirus wrote:Ok, but...why is that? We get about equivalent amounts of exposition, though it is more spread-out regrading the Sith. So this is a subjective feeling, which I can answer with my subjective feeling that I instantly understood who the Sith are and what they do when I first saw the movie. And all I knew about them beforehand was that Darth Vader and an EU guy named Exar Kun were Lords of the Sith. The concept made more sense after Episode I, not less.
Sure, a lot of this is very subjective. But you still need to admit that TPM is fairly atypical in this regard. Very few movies setup a major antagonist (like the Sith) without providing some concrete exposition about who/what they are and what they hope to achieve. Imagine if we took away the flashback scenes in Terminator, or Kyle Reese's dialogue explaining what a Terminator is. The movie would probably still work, to some extent, but it would be significantly less involving because we might not even understand exactly what a Terminator is until the end of the movie.
No, I'm not missing the point.

Nute Gunray: wants money.
Darth Sidious: wants power
Tarkin: wants power
Sauron: wants power
Balrog: ???
Orc: ???

Please describe to me how any of the ??? entries' actions follow from their motivation?
Stop being silly. Nobody here is complaining that Stormtroopers or Battledroids don't have significant motivation. Orcs are basically just Battledroids, and the Balrog is basically just the fucking Rancor. Wild animals, dragons and monsters don't need much motivation. Since you're capable of breathing and using a computer, you obviously must know this, so what sort of point are you trying to make here?
Now look at the section I bolded. You know, and I know, exactly what the TF's motivation is. Now your second sentence is what I've been saying all along, that TPM has a flimsy Excuse Plot. It's a plot that is meant to be extremely simple, but also meant to SEEM like it arose from a complicated political situation, and it didn't quite hold together logically on its own.
Fine, but you're just arguing semantics. For this entire thread we've all been complaining that the Trade Federation has no apparent motivation for their actions. Yeah, we know they're greedy, but why are they invading Naboo? Regardless, I agree with you on this point.
Anguirus wrote:Although, when you get right down to it, the specific objection that has been harped on for...fuck me, 17 pages, is a lack of background exposition that could have been solved with a single cleverly written sentence of dialogue, in one of the early scenes of the Coruscant sequence.
Sure, I said the same thing myself earlier. If the script indicated that the Trade Federation wanted some valuable mineral or something on Naboo, nobody would be complaining about this. However, the fact that the major conflict in TPM is so poorly explained is really indicative of an overall lack of plot coherence in the Prequels. The Sith issue is very similar.
So really, our point of disagreement may as well be that you (I guess?) think the lack of this sentence is a cause of TPM being a bad movie, while I am slightly more charitable and think it's more like a symptom of it being a mediocre movie.
No, it's just one issue that's interesting to talk about. I think TPM is a seriously flawed movie, and it would require more than a single line to fix it.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a character being a cipher, or with that particular character being a cipher, that's what I'm getting at. Not all works must flesh everybody out. The Balrog's motivation is he's a big evil thing. Nute Gunray's motivation is he's a slimy arch-capitalist with no scruples and a gullible streak.
But again, Nute Gunray's invasion of Naboo is the whole movie. I mean, how often do I need to say this? The Phantom Menace = Invasion of Naboo. Everything that happens in the movie revolves around this invasion. We're supposed to be anxious when we see Trade Federation forces marching around Naboo, and cheer when the good guys make progress towards defeating them. So, it would really help to know what the Trade Federation is trying to accomplish here, so we know what's at stake.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by VF5SS »

ok how about this

instead of this go nowhere shit about taxation

let's have this in the opening crawl

IT IS A PERIOD OF UNREST IN THE GALAXY. POWERFUL CORPORATIONS MONOPOLIZE THE FLOW OF GOODS TO PLANETS OF THE NEW REPUBLIC. IN AN EFFORT TO BOYCOTT THESE REPRESSIVE PRACTICES, NABOO HAS TURNED AWAY FROM DEALING WITH THE SPACE TOYOTA TRADE FEDERATION. FEARING A LOSS OF PROFITS, THE GALACTIC HONDA TRADE FEDERATION HAS BLOCKADED NABOO TO FORCE ITS PEOPLE INTO STARVATION AND MAKE THEIR GOVERNMENT CAPITULATE.

see look. clear threat. no mention of vague taxation. the stupid audience understands bad companies and starvation

even the children (who love movies like Baby Geniuses and Kangaroo Jack) can understand!

so now you can shoooooooooooooow not teeeeeeeeeeell about the problems.

throw in some actually suffering peasants and replace the weak, ineffectual villains with some real strong Japanese alien businessmen and you've got a better movie :D
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

Haha, someone resurrected that stupid "What is a Sith?" question again? At least the prequels gave them a name. In the original trilogy, Vader and the Emperor (the same guy with the same music who appears in TPM) were just the bad guys. No name, no backstories, no reasons for betraying the Jedi. They were just accepted as the villains, with their evil actions in the present being what mattered.

But of course, taking a consistent look at the original trilogy is something that a lot of prequel bashers don't like to do.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

Destructionator being a shameless lying troll again:
Destructionator XIII wrote:
Jim Raynor wrote: RLM literally says that Qui-Gon was "making shit up" for stating that an invasion was going on
Liar. We went over this a long time ago.
Really? You want me to post the direct quote again?
RLM gets so nitpicky as to make criticisms about laser beam visuals that appear for a couple of frames, only he's incompetent at that as well so he shows clips that flat out contradict him and exonerate the movie on his stupid points against it there.
You're the nitpicker. He was talking about the tension in the scene, and looking for some frame by frame visual doesn't address his point.
Another variant of the old "ignore everything that he actually said, he was just making some subjective MAIN POINT that's intelligent and insightful and totally true."

This is why everyone is better off just disregarding you.
"They're not triangular, but they are more or less blade-shaped"- Thrawn McEwok on the shape of Bakura destroyers

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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Jim Raynor wrote:Haha, someone resurrected that stupid "What is a Sith?" question again? At least the prequels gave them a name. In the original trilogy, Vader and the Emperor (the same guy with the same music who appears in TPM) were just the bad guys. No name, no backstories, no reasons for betraying the Jedi. They were just accepted as the villains, with their evil actions in the present being what mattered.

But of course, taking a consistent look at the original trilogy is something that a lot of prequel bashers don't like to do.
Horseshit. Vader was the face of the Empire in the OT. A Jedi gone bad. They never needed to delve into the Sith crap back then because his character was fleshed out enough without it.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

emersonlakeandbalmer wrote:Do me a favor, could you link to the multiple times someone brought up hunting wildlife? Can you name the person that said this without looking it up? Are they even still posting on this thread?
You're a joke. Yes, the person said it, and is still in this thread. And yes, he's still carrying on as if he hadn't completely embarassed himself already.
Maybe you could argue the point about how the blockade was affecting the planet since it was never shown in the movie?
Most people can understand the simple concept that being blockaded is bad, you know. When I was a kid sitting in elementary school, hearing about how the Union blockaded the Confederacy during the Civil War (the first time I even HEARD the word "blockade"), the teacher didn't need to specify the all critical goods being denied to the South. She briefly described what a blockade even was, and I thought to myself "Hmm, that makes sense."

Apparently, this is too difficult a concept for some of the pseudointellectual armchair film critics in this thread.
Do you want me to take it back for "them" since "they" won't do it? Are you a child? Because that's what it sounds like.
I want you (as in all of you bringing up this stream of utter nonsense) to open your eyes and see how utterly stupid you're coming across as.
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

Galvatron wrote:
Jim Raynor wrote:Haha, someone resurrected that stupid "What is a Sith?" question again? At least the prequels gave them a name. In the original trilogy, Vader and the Emperor (the same guy with the same music who appears in TPM) were just the bad guys. No name, no backstories, no reasons for betraying the Jedi. They were just accepted as the villains, with their evil actions in the present being what mattered.

But of course, taking a consistent look at the original trilogy is something that a lot of prequel bashers don't like to do.
Horseshit. Vader was the face of the Empire in the OT. A Jedi gone bad. They never needed to delve into the Sith crap back then because his character was fleshed out enough without it.
Yeah, so fleshed out that a Jedi gone bad (for no stated reason) was all he was. Until the very ending of TESB threw in the total retcon about him being Luke's daddy too (still no motivation). Your strong insistences that you're totally right are really funny, when you so clearly gloss over the actual point being made.

Go pretend that Lucas is too afraid to put out a director's cut catering to your own obscure fanboy demands again.
"They're not triangular, but they are more or less blade-shaped"- Thrawn McEwok on the shape of Bakura destroyers

"Lovely. It's known as impugning character regarding statement of professional qualifications' in the legal world"- Karen Traviss, crying libel because I said that no soldier she interviewed would claim that he can take on billion-to-one odds

"I've already laid out rules for this thread that we're not going to make these evidential demands"- Dark Moose on supporting your claims
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Galvatron »

Jim Raynor wrote:Yeah, so fleshed out that a Jedi gone bad (for no stated reason) was all he was. Until the very ending of TESB threw in the total retcon about him being Luke's daddy too (still no motivation).
"Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force" = motivation
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

Anguirus wrote:Although, when you get right down to it, the specific objection that has been harped on for...fuck me, 17 pages, is a lack of background exposition that could have been solved with a single cleverly written sentence of dialogue, in one of the early scenes of the Coruscant sequence.
This is it in a nutshell.

The opening crawl already gives the viewer a gist of things. The taxes really don't even matter, the movie focuses on the blockade and invasion. We are flat out TOLD that the Trade Fed is "greedy" and hoping that its use of military force can get its way on a tax dispute. That's all anyone needs to understand the plot - something that children were able to do just fine.

The same people are whining about what amounts to trivia, the kind of irrelevant little detail that might pop up in an EU novel or tie-in comic book for the truly hardcore who just HAVE to know. What is even the difference if it was spelled out? If Nute Gunray had one line like "We won't release your planet until those taxes are lifted"? Insert that one trifling little line (spelling out what can already be inferred from the opening crawl), with the plot, characters, fight scenes, and visual effects all staying the same. Oh wow, BIG difference! :lol:

That's really the test to see if someone's just obsessing over pointless crap. Yet some people have utterly warped this little trivia detail in their heads, elevating it to the "character motivation," "story," or "overall plot" of the movie. No, it's not.

Also, love how one of them tried to dismiss the Sauron comparison, letting Sauron off the hook for being even MORE vague, because he's supposed to be basic archetypal devil or something. Yeah, well that's Sidious's role in the prequel trilogy. He's the satanic tempter, working behind the scenes and trying to corrupt people. Meanwhile Nute Gunray gets a tougher treatment because he's supposed to be a "character," even though he's pretty much a small supporting role. The patsy. The movie doesn't focus on him in any way. And he's more fleshed out than any big Orc or Witch King.

Man, "big Orc" was so confusing! We needed to have his "character motivation" spelled out for us!
"They're not triangular, but they are more or less blade-shaped"- Thrawn McEwok on the shape of Bakura destroyers

"Lovely. It's known as impugning character regarding statement of professional qualifications' in the legal world"- Karen Traviss, crying libel because I said that no soldier she interviewed would claim that he can take on billion-to-one odds

"I've already laid out rules for this thread that we're not going to make these evidential demands"- Dark Moose on supporting your claims
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Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas

Post by Jim Raynor »

Galvatron wrote:
Jim Raynor wrote:Yeah, so fleshed out that a Jedi gone bad (for no stated reason) was all he was. Until the very ending of TESB threw in the total retcon about him being Luke's daddy too (still no motivation).
"Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force" = motivation
This is truly comical. A one-liner that glosses over the point even more than the previous post.

"What is the Dark Side? How did he even meet the Emperor? Who was the Emperor before being the Emperor? How did the Emperor learn all these Dark Side powers? How was Vader seduced? Why would he turn on his friends?"
"They're not triangular, but they are more or less blade-shaped"- Thrawn McEwok on the shape of Bakura destroyers

"Lovely. It's known as impugning character regarding statement of professional qualifications' in the legal world"- Karen Traviss, crying libel because I said that no soldier she interviewed would claim that he can take on billion-to-one odds

"I've already laid out rules for this thread that we're not going to make these evidential demands"- Dark Moose on supporting your claims
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