Vlad Taltos vs Everyone in the Wheel of Time

[Imperial Overlord]

Are we being a bit silly here? Yes, being tied to a bed is a bad way to be if you need to pick a fight, and I can see how someone with Vlad's abilities could use it to jump in kill him and leave in the hour or so (at most) that he is tied to a bed, but it's hardly an indication he isn't security conscious. I'd argue that staying queens consort and keeping his head down in an occupied city is a pretty good example of him being security conscious, because no one considered him any sort of threat when he was probably the most dangerous man in the city.

Matt's pretty damn sloppy from what I can remember and I don't recall anything like a personal guard. He gets himself into trouble all the time and spends more energy gambling than he does making sure that his room is secure or whether or not he's beign followed. It's pretty easy to kill a man when he sleeps, especially if you're a professional killer who is also a sorcerer, a witch, and has two poisonous familiars. If Rand has stopped his teleporting around the world with no guards habits (I stopped reading the books a long time ago) and actually has a personal guard instead of relying on waking up due to act of destiny or happening to be in the company of Aeil when an assassin shows up, yes he's going to be much harder to kill.

[Mr Bean]

Matt's pretty damn sloppy from what I can remember and I don't recall anything like a personal guard. He gets himself into trouble all the time and spends more energy gambling than he does making sure that his room is secure or whether or not he's beign followed. It's pretty easy to kill a man when he sleeps, especially if you're a professional killer who is also a sorcerer, a witch, and has two poisonous familiars. If Rand has stopped his teleporting around the world with no guards habits (I stopped reading the books a long time ago) and actually has a personal guard instead of relying on waking up due to act of destiny or happening to be in the company of Aeil when an assassin shows up, yes he's going to be much harder to kill.

Let me do a bit of qualifying

As of the end of Tower of Midnight

Rand currently has his Aiel in hand, they don't watch him sleep but there are a thousand within shouting distance. He sleeps in the Stone of Tear except when he is traveling and has with him over two dozen channlers of both sexes who are of mixed strength. He has the benefit of channeling himself as well as access to a very powerful of flawed Sa'angral in his sword. He at present has the benefit of over four hundred years experience in the one power (Rand and Lewis Theron are no longer two separate people with Rand half remembering things from Lews Therin to channel). As well as having access to the Pattern being on his side he's turned into the sort of The Light Personified, Darkfriends and those of the Shadow can not meet his eyes and flinch away from him. He's grown in strength to the point where he takes apart an army of something north of forty thousand shadowspawn by himself. He also has access to Min who has the ability to read the Pattern and has detected threats to Rand in the past (If never in time, so lets call her a Wild-card), Rand is also missing a hand at this point and it was his swordhand so his awesome blademaster skills are somewhat negated but then he's stopped fighting with physical weapons for awhile now.

Matt is currently in the midst of a 10,000 man strong Band of the Red Hand with a few channlers on hand, he's been sleeping in different tent each night for awhile now due to assassination attempts. He has a medallion that disrupts use of the one power directed at him as well as a power forged spear which is notable only because of his excellent skill with it and it's unbreakable nature. He's got over a thousand years of men's memories in his mind and has lived and died over a hundred times (From his memories, he's only died the once) but he's a General of unparalleled skill as he has the memories of over a hundred individuals crammed into their brains, not their entire lives but large sections and selected bits, mostly to due with fighting in person or as a General. He has excellent reactions to the point snagging knives thrown out of the air at him is valid combat tactic to him and carries a dozen knives on his person in easy throwing reach. In addition his luck is currently phenomenal Spoiler

Even more so since he lost an eye

to the point at which Spoiler

Feeling bummed at losing an eye he throws a dagger over his shoulder at random only for it to strike a rabbit, this less than an hour after being forced to abandon all his supplies on his little sidequest so he has nothing to cook it with, only to literally stumble over a perfectly good cooking pot a few steps later. His luck is insane he's had his live saved by last count over forty times in the Novels when he should have died, enemies have gotten the drop on him only for some tiny thing to shift and he win.

[Imperial Overlord]

Sounds like Rand's pretty hard to get, but if Matt's still running around doing side quests where he's wandering around without cooking supplies, he's probably a dead man.

[Mr Bean]

Sounds like Rand's pretty hard to get, but if Matt's still running around doing side quests where he's wandering around without cooking supplies, he's probably a dead man.

It was one side quest and it was someplace where the Laws of Physics do not apply, not exactly prime assassination territory.

Let me add something about Matt's luck Spoiler

When Matt was in the Tower during ToM the place was a maze where the laws of physically literally don't apply and going through the same doorway twice lead to two different destinations after trying it the logical way for awhile Matt gives up and starts tossing two d6 dice to pick which of five paths to take, he does this over twenty times odd times in a row being correct every single time, which was calculated out to be in the one in quadrillions. And then he does it again to find the way out.

[Mr Bean]

Double

[Imperial Overlord]

It was one side quest and it was someplace where the Laws of Physics do not apply, not exactly prime assassination territory.

If he's still sidequesting at all, then all Vlad has to do is wait. Vlad still might loose, but Matt's still a squishy mortal human who can be poisoned, stabbed, or killed by a falling roof tile (although luck really helps with the last). Matt's just lucky, not invincible.

[Mr Bean]

It was one side quest and it was someplace where the Laws of Physics do not apply, not exactly prime assassination territory.

If he's still sidequesting at all, then all Vlad has to do is wait. Vlad still might loose, but Matt's still a squishy mortal human who can be poisoned, stabbed, or killed by a falling roof tile (although luck really helps with the last). Matt's just lucky, not invincible.

The point is he's not "just lucky" he's a walking four leaf clover, rabbits foot, horseshoe all rolled in to one and sprinkled with a bit of Red dwarf style Luck Virus. Further at this point he's frankly abusing it like picking which tent to sleep in by random selection. If Vlad were actually trying to kill Matt there is an excellent chance the two might not meet for months of trying, every time Vlad's decided where Matt is and is going to send his familiars in or teleport to his location at exactly that second Matt is walking out of that spot to go talk with a messenger or he ducks just before getting fried or worst of all from Vlads prospective Rand will decided now is the time to visit Matt that very instant.

Of the three in order of killing (As in has the best chance) based on what I've read of Vlad it's going to be Perrin-Rand-Matt and that's just how insanely lucky Matt is at present.

Each of the three has incredible good fortune come their way from the Pattern, however each manifests it self differently. Matt is the strongest in that nature personally as within the room he's in, Rand is the strongest generally (It's a good indication where Rand is by every coin within a ten mile radius start landing on edge every time you flip it or dice coming up all sixes every toss) and Perrin is the weakest and the only thing that's happened in his nature is on the large scale not the small scale Matt and Rand both benefit from.

[Imperial Overlord]

Perrin's clearly the easiest target, but let's not get no limits will Matt's luck. He still gets tied to bed and raped in chillingly awful B&D sex scenes played for laughs and he hasn't effortlessly won the war. Bad shit can and does happen to him and he's going up against someone who also has a place in destiny so his luck isn't going to be nearly as hot as it usually is. So yeah, he's totally killable.

[The Romulan Republic]

But then again Matt's luck isn't the only thing he has going for him. He also has his excellent hand to hand combat skills, his memories of various generals that make him a brilliant commander, and his own personal army. Plus he's gotten quite savy dealing with assassins: as noted already, he does things like sleeping in a different place each night.

I'm not saying an assassin absolutely couldn't take him out, but it would be very hard.

[Imperial Overlord]

Oh Matt's not an easy target. I'm not trying to say that. If he's with the army and changing his sleeping position every night and he's luck still somewhat applies, yes Vlad's boned. It's when he's not with his army that he'll get in trouble. Also, for a lucky guy Matt's a god damn trouble magnet which is very helpful for an assassin.

[The Romulan Republic]

True enough. Regarding being a trouble magnet: I suppose Vlad could try to jump him while he's distracted dealing with other enemies or something, but that's a dicy proposition. Vlad would have to be in just the right place at the right time, and again, that sort of thing is more likely to happen in Matt's favour, I suspect.

[Imperial Overlord]

Vlad would have to be in just the right place at the right time, and again, that sort of thing is more likely to happen in Matt's favour, I suspect.

It would if Vlad left it to luck. Having telepathic contact with familiar spies helps. Really it's probably easier for Vlad to deal with whatever is trying him to force him into killing Matt and the others than try to kill Matt and the others.

[warwiller]

There is a thing called stupidity. It exists naturally. In various forms (Cadsuane, Egwene, etc.), and manners of speaking.

[warwiller]

Excuse me, i almost forgot.

*cough cough*

*brushes away the dust*

Okay, welcome.

[Lord of the Abyss]

But people forget his most important skill. He is a great cook! :d
Vlad opening a restaurant and living a boring life sounds much more realistic.

Especially since he doesn't like killing humans.

Excuse me, i almost forgot.

*cough cough*

*brushes away the dust*

Okay, welcome.

Quite the necro.

[warwiller]

Especially since he doesn't like killing humans.

He doesn't? He doesn't? There is, of course, nothing to say to this blatantly incorrect statement. Except, in the spirit of understanding, remind me again, in what way, how, where, or why he doesn't like killing Easterners?

Quite the necro.

Come again?

[Mr Bean]

Come again?

Have you never posted to a message board before? Okay then let me give you the two second explanation.

Last post by Imperial Overload
Posted: 24 Oct 2011, 05:56

Your post
Posted: 07 Jun 2012, 10:54

This topic was dead and your response was one line.

[warwiller]

Mr Bean

Permit me, then, in lieu of the more commonplace riposte, to explain the motives behind this horrifyingly horrendous and inconvenient act of blatant defiance

On a quiet afternoon, on the twentieth day of the tenth month of a distant year, an honest member of this community wished to embed the importance of true recognition of the various elements involved when attempting to investigate the relationship between constructed fictional universes, forever into our hearts. His hope was to remind the world that these constructions are more than words, they are perspectives. Other people had such a unique view on this, and expressed their views in such glowing terms, that he found himself filled with admiration. He expressed his admiration in such a timely manner that it provoked a series of separate, unique views and, albeit, misunderstandings.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Especially since he doesn't like killing humans.

He doesn't? He doesn't? There is, of course, nothing to say to this blatantly incorrect statement. Except, in the spirit of understanding, remind me again, in what way, how, where, or why he doesn't like killing Easterners?

Hello? It's a significant plot point at several times; it demonstrates that part of his motivation is hatred/revenge/bigotry, and causes something of a disagreement with his wife since she did take jobs against Easterners.

And what's with "Luzifer's right hand"?

[warwiller]

Hello? It's a significant plot point at several times; it demonstrates that part of his motivation is hatred/revenge/bigotry, and causes something of a disagreement with his wife since she did take jobs against Easterners.

Hi,

Lets see .. how do i explain this, being a village idiot myself .. WELLLL, If you were to look very closely, you will find that, while he does refuse to accept money to kill Easterners, it doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't like killing Easterners (i may go into this further, at some point). Interesting, no?

Although, in point of fact, it is suggested at one point in Teckla, its only enough to assume that, as a general rule, he prefers to avoid killing Easterners.

You'll also find that, not liking to kill Easterners doesn't imply opening a restaurant. I know this may seem outlandish, to some degree, but there it is.

And what's with "Luzifer's right hand"?

What of it?

[Lord of the Abyss]

WELLLL, If you were to look very closely, you will find that, while he does refuse to accept money to kill Easterners, it doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't like killing Easterners (i may go into this further, at some point).

Except that he says he doesn't like doing so.

And what's with "Luzifer's right hand"?

What of it?

Why are you doing it? That's not my user name.

[warwiller]

Except that he says he doesn't like doing so.

I believe you, too. Except - where does he say it?

That's not my user name.

Oh. Well, that's all right, then.

[fgalkin]

Are you ten years old?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[warwiller]

Have a very nice day.

You too.