UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

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UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2011-04-01 01:53pm

UN workers were among as many as 20 people reportedly killed in northern Afghanistan after a Koran burning protest turned violent.

Demonstrators stormed their compound in the city of Mazar-i-Sharif, opening fire on guards and setting fires.

They had gathered in a mass protest following reports that an American pastor had recently set a copy of the Muslim holy book ablaze in Florida.

Police said the dead included three foreign members of the UN, five Nepalese United Nations guards and three Afghan protesters. Two are said to have been beheaded.

UN officials have been reported saying as many as 20 have died.

Reports said the protests were initially peaceful but turned violent.

Reports said the protests were initially peaceful but turned violent

Other reports said several hundred demonstrators were peacefully protesting against the Koran burning when the violence broke out.

Afghanistan had earlier condemned the "disrespectful and abhorrent" burning of the Koran by evangelical preacher Pastor Wayne Sapp in a Florida church on March 21, calling it an effort to incite tension between religions.

It was carried out under the supervision of Terry Jones, who planned to burn a pile of the holy books last year to mark the anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

He aborted the move under pressure from world leaders including the US president, who earlier said he condemned the latest violence "in the strongest possible terms".

UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon has also condemned Friday's attacks.

Terry Jones said the incident was "tragic and criminal". "The time has come to hold Islam accountable," he said.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Illuminatus Primus » 2011-04-01 02:32pm

Fuck this asshole and his creepy cult church of like 20 people. Seriously. He has been a media whore by profession for years, sending his cretins to wear "Islam Is Of The Devil" shirts and bullshit literature onto the university grounds obviously for pure provocation. There's probably going to be another protest against him but the media needs to stop feeding the troll, seriously. Their hunger for controversy is the quintessential ingredient in his actions causing deaths in other nations.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2011-04-01 02:36pm

And this guy now has blood on his hands, what the fuck did he think was going to happen after the shitstorm this stirred up the first time it was announced?
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Sarevok » 2011-04-01 02:55pm

His supporters will only claim "look how barbaric those Afghans are!" instead of admitting they got 20 people killed.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Broomstick » 2011-04-01 03:02pm

Can we get the Florida preacher for inciting a riot, with manslaughter charges added on at the very least? I wish.

That said - there are people who believe the proper response to a book being burned on another continent is to behead people? Yes, yes, I've known that on an intellectual level but my gut just does not get it.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby TheHammer » 2011-04-01 03:34pm

Sarevok wrote:His supporters will only claim "look how barbaric those Afghans are!" instead of admitting they got 20 people killed.


Doesn't invalidate the claim about barbaric Afghans though... The preacher and his supporters may well be biggoted morons, but the people actually responsible for killing the 20 UN workers are far worse.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Sarevok » 2011-04-01 03:52pm

If America was a wartorn country like Afghanistan today same thing would happen if news of bible burnings spread.

This type of reaction is not unique to Afghans.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Broomstick » 2011-04-01 03:58pm

No, it's not, which is why I made my statement generic without reference to ethnicity when it came to killings. It would be just as wrong for Christians to react that way to a Bible burning in Asia and it is for Asians to react that way to a Koran burning in North America. People are worth more than any collection of paper and ink in my ethics and morals.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Big Phil » 2011-04-01 04:14pm

Wow... SDNet are blaming a pastor in Florida for murders in Afghanistan. Might as well go all the way and blame rape victims for "dressing slutty."


And now... let's hear the litany of tantrums about how I'm wrong, the pastor is wrong, Americans are evil or stupid, etc.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby TheHammer » 2011-04-01 04:19pm

Sarevok wrote:If America was a wartorn country like Afghanistan today same thing would happen if news of bible burnings spread.


I highly doubt it.

This type of reaction is not unique to Afghans.


No its not unique to Afghans. Doesn't make the ones who participated in this any less barbaric.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Sarevok » 2011-04-01 04:20pm

Quick question :

The sort of messages that started this chain of events leading to riots on another continent, would they fall under hate speech under Canadian or European laws ?
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Sarevok » 2011-04-01 04:25pm

TheHammer wrote:
Sarevok wrote:If America was a wartorn country like Afghanistan today same thing would happen if news of bible burnings spread.


I highly doubt it.
.


Are you absolutely sure fundemtanlist Christians are not above comitting violence ? Only the fact that US is a developed first world country prevents such incidents. You will note that the word of this incident reached every muslim country. Yet it was in Afghanistan, an under developed country with poor communications where this happened. No other muslim country experienced something like this.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby wautd » 2011-04-01 04:28pm

Fundies found to be violent assholes. News at eleven.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby TheHammer » 2011-04-01 04:34pm

Sarevok wrote:
TheHammer wrote:
Sarevok wrote:If America was a wartorn country like Afghanistan today same thing would happen if news of bible burnings spread.


I highly doubt it.
.


Are you absolutely sure fundemtanlist Christians are not above comitting violence ? Only the fact that US is a developed first world country prevents such incidents. You will note that the word of this incident reached every muslim country. Yet it was in Afghanistan, an under developed country with poor communications where this happened. No other muslim country experienced something like this.


I never said absolutely sure. I said I "highly doubt it". Besides, this is hardly an isolated incident. The fact remains that you have Muslim religous leaders openly call for violence in retaliation for percieved slights against Islam.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Wing Commander MAD » 2011-04-01 04:42pm

Generally, while someone who goads another into violent action certainly shares a degree of responsibiilty in the consequences of that action, ultimately it's those who chose to carry out the act of violence who bare most of the responsibility, at least thats how I thought it worked. I agree that the pastor is a biggotted ass, don't get me wrong, it just seems odd to me that the majority of the criticism is being thrown his way instead of those who chose act on his goading. Am I missing something here, have I forgotten some very general ethical principal, or is this more a case of one party being considered a better target for vitriol due to SDN board culture? I'm assuming its the latter, though assumptions are very rarely good to make.

I'm genuinely curious, as my formal education in ethics was comprised of how to act ethically as a computing professional with focus on whistle blowing, protecting the public, and other areas familiar to engineers. It never really got into the nuances of the various ethical systems in any great detail, other than giving a brief overview of what they believe and how they'd act given that in a particular situation. I'm a tad confused at the thought processes involved in the seeming conclusion of blaming the pastor more than the people actually killing others. Mind you that confusion is of course provided this is the result of rational thought processes and not merely board culture in action.

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Brother-Captain Gaius » 2011-04-01 06:18pm

Wing Commander MAD wrote:I agree that the pastor is a biggotted ass, don't get me wrong, it just seems odd to me that the majority of the criticism is being thrown his way instead of those who chose act on his goading. Am I missing something here, have I forgotten some very general ethical principal, or is this more a case of one party being considered a better target for vitriol due to SDN board culture? I'm assuming its the latter, though assumptions are very rarely good to make.


I don't think anyone disagrees that the "protesters" (or at least the ones responsible for this) are pretty shitty, and are indeed the ones ultimately responsible.

The cruel fact of that matter is, though (assuming that events played out as we are lead to believe by the article), that people are dead because of a dumbass pastor's dumbass, senseless stunt. It's not as if he didn't know it would stir up shit -- they held their book burning knowing full well why the last attempt last year was called off (i.e., that it was a dumbass stunt that would get people killed).
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Big Phil » 2011-04-01 06:55pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Wing Commander MAD wrote:I agree that the pastor is a biggotted ass, don't get me wrong, it just seems odd to me that the majority of the criticism is being thrown his way instead of those who chose act on his goading. Am I missing something here, have I forgotten some very general ethical principal, or is this more a case of one party being considered a better target for vitriol due to SDN board culture? I'm assuming its the latter, though assumptions are very rarely good to make.


I don't think anyone disagrees that the "protesters" (or at least the ones responsible for this) are pretty shitty, and are indeed the ones ultimately responsible.

The cruel fact of that matter is, though (assuming that events played out as we are lead to believe by the article), that people are dead because of a dumbass pastor's dumbass, senseless stunt. It's not as if he didn't know it would stir up shit -- they held their book burning knowing full well why the last attempt last year was called off (i.e., that it was a dumbass stunt that would get people killed).


Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. If I walk down the street and call my neighbor an asshole, and subsequently he murders his family, I'm not responsible (morally or legally) for that murder. This pastor is no more responsible for these murders than I would be in my example.

Unless, of course, you want to make the argument that Muslims are too childish and immature to be able to behave like responsible adults and not murder people because of stupid shit that happens on the other side of the globe.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Anguirus » 2011-04-01 06:59pm

Terry Jones is a bad, foolish, amoral person, but it is not his fault that the people he sought to offend are fucking crazy enough to do exactly what he wanted them to do.

I believe there are mullahs in this story that directly incited this riot. Much as they, too, foolishly dance to Jones' hateful tune, it is they who should be prosecuted. Along with, if possible, the actual murderers.

People in the Middle East do not have the right to behead people because their fucking feelings are hurt. Are we now going to blame cartoonists who draw Muhammad for the riots they indirectly caused?
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Tanasinn » 2011-04-01 07:00pm

Insulting a bronze age jibberish book is apparently on the same level as murder over a bronze age jibberish book.

HURR DURR DERP DURR

Not to take the side of this execrable Christ-crazy shit-stirrer, but to hold him accountable for the murders of these people is asinine.

His supporters will only claim "look how barbaric those Afghans are!" instead of admitting they got 20 people killed.


They'll be right. Murdering people over a burned book is not the behavior of civilized members of a society.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Brother-Captain Gaius » 2011-04-01 07:01pm

EDIT: Reply to Sanchez
---

In the previous attempt to do this, the pastor involved was asked by the President of the United States not to do it, because it would result in exactly this. Then they did it anyway.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Anguirus » 2011-04-01 07:03pm

^ Who cares? That changes nothing about whose responsibility it is. I don't think Obama should have gotten involved in the first place, it legitimized all sides of this shameful fuckery.

Unless, of course, you want to make the argument that Muslims are too childish and immature to be able to behave like responsible adults and not murder people because of stupid shit that happens on the other side of the globe.


That's exactly what I'm getting at.
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This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Alyeska » 2011-04-01 07:06pm

Just to note something. This pastor knows that extreme violence tends to happen when he starts burning Korans. So he knows people react violently. A degree of guilt is his because he knowingly presents an abrasive attitude and states beliefs that will incite violence.

If you know your neighbor is batshit crazy and that calling him a loon will cause him to eat his fingers, then you call him a loon to his face, just how innocent are you?
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Big Phil » 2011-04-01 07:15pm

Alyeska wrote:Just to note something. This pastor knows that extreme violence tends to happen when he starts burning Korans. So he knows people react violently. A degree of guilt is his because he knowingly presents an abrasive attitude and states beliefs that will incite violence.

If you know your neighbor is batshit crazy and that calling him a loon will cause him to eat his fingers, then you call him a loon to his face, just how innocent are you?



People who are that batshit crazy (and apparently people in this thread are arguing that Muslims are batshit crazy) will do fucked up stuff for any number of reasons. Some Muslims apparently go batshit because American women don't wear veils... should therefore force women to wear veils so Muslims don't go apeshit? Where do we draw the line?
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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Samuel » 2011-04-01 07:18pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Just to note something. This pastor knows that extreme violence tends to happen when he starts burning Korans. So he knows people react violently. A degree of guilt is his because he knowingly presents an abrasive attitude and states beliefs that will incite violence.

If you know your neighbor is batshit crazy and that calling him a loon will cause him to eat his fingers, then you call him a loon to his face, just how innocent are you?



People who are that batshit crazy (and apparently people in this thread are arguing that Muslims are batshit crazy) will do fucked up stuff for any number of reasons. Some Muslims apparently go batshit because American women don't wear veils... should therefore force women to wear veils so Muslims don't go apeshit? Where do we draw the line?


Crazy Muslims have had protests and killed people over western women not wearing a veil? When was that?

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Re: UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

Postby Prannon » 2011-04-01 07:46pm

I have to agree with those positing that Afghan Muslims involved in this protest are batshit crazy. Ok, so a stupid pastor in Florida burns a Koran. How many American flags are burned in the Middle East again? Whoopdy-doo. Mature civilizations and mature adults don't go killing people over burning a fucking book.

Notice, the pastor is an idiot. The muslims over there are murderers. There's a difference.


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