How destructive is this?

[lordofchange13]

Rethought it out and a cannon ball going faster them light wouldn't hit the earth at all, it would go back in time, hiting god in the face at the big bang.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

Rethought it out and a cannon ball going faster them light wouldn't hit the earth at all, it would go back in time, hiting god in the face at the big bang.

There are two glaring issues with your idea:

• The existence of God (outside the Salvation War setting) has to be taken on faith.
• Even if FTL velocities were possible, there's no proof that travel at a velocity of C + 1 would result in time travel. Going faster than light isn't like overflowing an integer variable and rolling over from the highest positive integer to the lowest negative integer. You'll still be moving forward in time, just not at the same rate as people not traveling at C or greater because of relativistic time dilation effects.

[lordofchange13]

Rethought it out and a cannon ball going faster them light wouldn't hit the earth at all, it would go back in time, hiting god in the face at the big bang.

There are two glaring issues with your idea:

• The existence of God (outside the Salvation War setting) has to be taken on faith.
• Even if FTL velocities were possible, there's no proof that travel at a velocity of C + 1 would result in time travel. Going faster than light isn't like overflowing an integer variable and rolling over from the highest positive integer to the lowest negative integer. You'll still be moving forward in time, just not at the same rate as people not traveling at C or greater because of relativistic time dilation effects.

#1 the god part was a joke
#2 the theory of going FTL in this universe cousing time travel, is a greatly accepted one.

[Ghost Rider]

#2 the theory of going FTL in this universe cousing time travel, is a greatly accepted one.

You're going to have to do then appeal to popularity given that such things have happened and it didn't go back in time.

[Uncluttered]

To answer the stupidity of new weapon for versus.

How is this more stupid than
1. "Turbo" lasers.
2. Manned space fighters that turn like WWII prop planes.
3. Monks who can predict the future.
4. Laser Swords.
5. Startrek and Starwars in general.
6. bonus!: Motorcycles possessed by magical demons of vengeance.


Oh I see. It's a stupid idea because It doesn't go "PEW PEW" and invoke childhood fantasy.

Does this happen before or after the day they find Earth and threaten to turn Vulcan and the Federation into slag?

It could be before or after.
Preparations before could possibly a time traveler from an alternate history.
There don't seem to be any neutron stars or black holes in the Sol system, so I it could also be done after Earth and Vulcan have been reduced to slag.
Nothing like slagging a planet to motivate revenge.
Aren't you supposed to be a "vengeance" expert? You should know this.

I suggested these weapons would best be deployed as defense. Last I checked an ISD still has to actually arrive in a system to slag it. I realize this can change at any time if an EU comic book writer gets too lazy; but I'm willing to take that risk.

Humans are still in charge of the gun batteries, and human reaction times are not quick enough.
Even with CIWZ point defence, you still have the problem of reaction times.
At close range, even FTL fire control sensors won't help much unless they can predict the future.
(we threw out causality when we started playing with the PEW PEW scifi folks. )
To shoot mutiple targets, at short ranges, you have to swivel and arc those turbo laser barrels at FTL. They need their own hyperdrive engines just to move fast enough.
This would be the trek equivalence to an IED.

The other parts of why the weapon is silly are handled elsewhere.

And of course this is silly.
This whole site is silly , and there is nothing wrong with it.
If you really don't think the ENTIRE SW vs ST debate is silly I'm going to ruin your day Spoiler

It's silly!

Now. Granted. This stuff is imaginary, and there are some things we have to accept as part of the game.
I have to accept FTL, warp drive, hyperdrive, and magical shields. So I did and I extrapolated on this.
You have to accept that a projectile moving at close to the speed of light with an energy in excess of 1e20j can occasionally beat magic shields.

All you have said is a rehash. Please give me information I can use.

[lordofchange13]

#2 the theory of going FTL in this universe cousing time travel, is a greatly accepted one.

You're going to have to do then appeal to popularity given that such things have happened and it didn't go back in time.

what the hell did you just say? go research FTL in this universe, not in hyperspace or with warp drives, enertialess drive,eta

[lordofchange13]

Rethought it out and a cannon ball going faster them light wouldn't hit the earth at all, it would go back in time, hiting god in the face at the big bang.

There are two glaring issues with your idea:

• The existence of God (outside the Salvation War setting) has to be taken on faith.
• Even if FTL velocities were possible, there's no proof that travel at a velocity of C + 1 would result in time travel. Going faster than light isn't like overflowing an integer variable and rolling over from the highest positive integer to the lowest negative integer. You'll still be moving forward in time, just not at the same rate as people not traveling at C or greater because of relativistic time dilation effects.

go git a physics book and find out, and look up Einstein's theory of special relativity. youl see all you need to know

[Ghost Rider]

Rethought it out and a cannon ball going faster them light wouldn't hit the earth at all, it would go back in time, hiting god in the face at the big bang.

There are two glaring issues with your idea:

• The existence of God (outside the Salvation War setting) has to be taken on faith.
• Even if FTL velocities were possible, there's no proof that travel at a velocity of C + 1 would result in time travel. Going faster than light isn't like overflowing an integer variable and rolling over from the highest positive integer to the lowest negative integer. You'll still be moving forward in time, just not at the same rate as people not traveling at C or greater because of relativistic time dilation effects.

go git a physics book and find out, and look up Einstein's theory of special relativity. youl see all you need to know

Yes, and FTL doesn't result in time travel, you motherless dumbfuck hick. We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?

[adam_grif]

We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?

Only ones that do not result in information transfer at superluminal speeds. Which I do believe is what someone would be talking about when dealing with slugs going at FTL speeds. Although it's by no means as simple as "FTL = you go back in time", you are no doubt familiar with the tachyon pistol duel and it's ilk, yes?

[lordofchange13]

Yes, and FTL doesn't result in time travel, you motherless dumbfuck hick. We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?[/quote]
no you haven't, but can not transport imformation, making it not use ful in the way i mean by FTL.

[lordofchange13]

We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?

Only ones that do not result in information transfer at superluminal speeds. Which I do believe is what someone would be talking about when dealing with slugs going at FTL speeds. Although it's by no means as simple as "FTL = you go back in time", you are no doubt familiar with the tachyon pistol duel and it's ilk, yes?

i am not, what is it, allways eger to learn more science.

[Soontir C'boath]

For fuck's sake write proper English, lordofchange13.

@Uncluttered
Even if somehow projectiles can be ramped up to/near lightspeed, the warp speeds of ST is still severely limiting the reaction time it'd take for wherever the dual star system is from the Imperial vessels location. You're also going to have to hope the accuracy of those weapons especially traveling at/near c will be better than any actually shown especially when we've seen ST weapon ranges of a couple hundred meters and still missing.

So yes, it is retarded.

[Lief]

I just got an idea yesterday. How destructive would a solid object or a munition moving at or faster than the speed of light be, if it hits Earth, or a spaceship with sheilds. Say...something as small as a cannonball used by ships in the 1700's? Or a 9 inch shell. Or...the rounds used by battleships in World War I and II? Would they do considerable damage on ships from sci-fi fiction?

I mean, I know that in HALO, the primary anti-ship weapon of the UNSC warships is the MAC, which throws out several hundred meter wide slugs at a considerable percent of the speed of light. If you make it faster, what will happen?

Try ridding the question of variables..

Like - A certain type of ship with a certain type of shields, or a rock made of this at this size...
Like - Object moving at exactly the speed of light
Like - A 9 inch shell

Your question is stupid.

[Uncluttered]

For fuck's sake write proper English, lordofchange13.

@Uncluttered
Even if somehow projectiles can be ramped up to/near lightspeed, the warp speeds of ST is still severely limiting the reaction time it'd take for wherever the dual star system is from the Imperial vessels location. You're also going to have to hope the accuracy of those weapons especially traveling at/near c will be better than any actually shown especially when we've seen ST weapon ranges of a couple hundred meters and still missing.

So yes, it is retarded.

WAIT You are saying it's retarded because of the POSSIBILITY of it missing shots?
Given that description, I can say the turbo laser is retarded (more than just the retarded name), because I've seen footage of them missing shots fired at the Millenium Falcon.
Please elaborate on your suggestion.

And how exactly is warp speed a slow reaction time for a short range in system defense weapon?
Once again. Elaborate. I'm thinking distances of only a few AU. What exactly are you thinking?
I never suggested firing them from a binary star. I suggested using the stars as a cheap kinetic energy source. Afterwards, you use your warp technology, to capture and drag the projectiles around. It will still contain it's kinetic energy.
Please don't try to claim that something has to stay still for warp to work. I will bludgeon the first person to say that with the very fabric of spacetime.

When your ISD arrives, the biggest weakness is the gun speed and accuracy. The guns are capable of missing an evading target. (See Falcon Comment above)
Also, the guns can only turn at sublight speeds. If the target is moving faster than light, the turrets must track FTL. Unfortunately, this probably violates the warrantee, so it was never shown on film.

You still haven't shown why a projectile moving with a kinetic energy of 1e20 can't take out an ISD shields.

Calling something retarded isn't much of an argument. I'm interested in hearing a better one. Can you do that?

Also. Who cares if it misses. Turn around and go back. It has a fucking warp drive.

[Uncluttered]

Yes, and FTL doesn't result in time travel, you motherless dumbfuck hick. We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?

Fascinating. Could you please provide some links or references. For some reason when I search for it, I get articles declaring it to be an illusion? However, science marches on.

[Norade]

Yes, and FTL doesn't result in time travel, you motherless dumbfuck hick. We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?

Fascinating. Could you please provide some links or references. For some reason when I search for it, I get articles declaring it to be an illusion? However, science marches on.

You're obviously not aware that we've observed part of a light pulse that moved at greater than c, but some of it lagged behind mean the information was still only readable at c.

[Norade]

For fuck's sake write proper English, lordofchange13.

@Uncluttered
Even if somehow projectiles can be ramped up to/near lightspeed, the warp speeds of ST is still severely limiting the reaction time it'd take for wherever the dual star system is from the Imperial vessels location. You're also going to have to hope the accuracy of those weapons especially traveling at/near c will be better than any actually shown especially when we've seen ST weapon ranges of a couple hundred meters and still missing.

So yes, it is retarded.

WAIT You are saying it's retarded because of the POSSIBILITY of it missing shots?
Given that description, I can say the turbo laser is retarded (more than just the retarded name), because I've seen footage of them missing shots fired at the Millenium Falcon.
Please elaborate on your suggestion.

And how exactly is warp speed a slow reaction time for a short range in system defense weapon?
Once again. Elaborate. I'm thinking distances of only a few AU. What exactly are you thinking?
I never suggested firing them from a binary star. I suggested using the stars as a cheap kinetic energy source. Afterwards, you use your warp technology, to capture and drag the projectiles around. It will still contain it's kinetic energy.
Please don't try to claim that something has to stay still for warp to work. I will bludgeon the first person to say that with the very fabric of spacetime.

When your ISD arrives, the biggest weakness is the gun speed and accuracy. The guns are capable of missing an evading target. (See Falcon Comment above)
Also, the guns can only turn at sublight speeds. If the target is moving faster than light, the turrets must track FTL. Unfortunately, this probably violates the warrantee, so it was never shown on film.

You still haven't shown why a projectile moving with a kinetic energy of 1e20 can't take out an ISD shields.

Calling something retarded isn't much of an argument. I'm interested in hearing a better one. Can you do that?

Also. Who cares if it misses. Turn around and go back. It has a fucking warp drive.

An ISD has FTL sensors and given that your projectile is moving in an orbit all the ISD needs to do is get a bead on a target moving at a predictable path from their maximum 10 light minute range and blast it before it breaks orbit and flies at them.

As for why the projectile still does nothing the peak shields on a troop transport are 7e22 W. so you would need to fire 700 of those in a second to drop the shields on an outdated transport.

[Soontir C'boath]

For fuck's sake write proper English, lordofchange13.

@Uncluttered
Even if somehow projectiles can be ramped up to/near lightspeed, the warp speeds of ST is still severely limiting the reaction time it'd take for wherever the dual star system is from the Imperial vessels location. You're also going to have to hope the accuracy of those weapons especially traveling at/near c will be better than any actually shown especially when we've seen ST weapon ranges of a couple hundred meters and still missing.

So yes, it is retarded.

WAIT You are saying it's retarded because of the POSSIBILITY of it missing shots?
Given that description, I can say the turbo laser is retarded (more than just the retarded name), because I've seen footage of them missing shots fired at the Millennium Falcon.
Please elaborate on your suggestion.

The Millennium Falcon is a small freighter vessel. While in Star Trek (DS9 comes to mind), they regularly miss against other capital ships. If you cannot understand the difference in the size profile of the targets, you're a fucking idiot. Especially when the Millennium Falcon was actually jinking pretty good while ST ships' maneuverability are of an obese bitch.

And how exactly is warp speed a slow reaction time for a short range in system defense weapon?
Once again. Elaborate. I'm thinking distances of only a few AU. What exactly are you thinking? I never suggested firing them from a binary star. I suggested using the stars as a cheap kinetic energy source. Afterwards, you use your warp technology, to capture and drag the projectiles around. It will still contain it's kinetic energy.
Please don't try to claim that something has to stay still for warp to work. I will bludgeon the first person to say that with the very fabric of spacetime.

You have to consider the transit time from the binary stars to wherever you're taking it to defend. Considering the huge disparity in FTL speeds between the two, it will hardly matter when the Imperial fleet decides to BDZ Earth and be on its way.

When your ISD arrives, the biggest weakness is the gun speed and accuracy. The guns are capable of missing an evading target. (See Falcon Comment above)
Also, the guns can only turn at sublight speeds. If the target is moving faster than light, the turrets must track FTL. Unfortunately, this probably violates the warrantee, so it was never shown on film.

The Falcon at its greatest length is 34 meters long. The workhorse of Starfleet, the Excelsior class vessels are 437 meters and has shit maneuverability. Can you understand the difference now, dumbass?

You still haven't shown why a projectile moving with a kinetic energy of 1e20 can't take out an ISD shields.

You haven't shown if that projectile can be accurate and fast enough to even be on target on an ISD and considering it's your device that we've seen no Trek race use that you're pimping, it's up to you to convince me.

Anyway, Norade already covered it.

Calling something retarded isn't much of an argument. I'm interested in hearing a better one. Can you do that?

I already did, fuckface.

Read the rules, noob. The Rules

[Uncluttered]

An ISD has FTL sensors and given that your projectile is moving in an orbit all the ISD needs to do is get a bead on a target moving at a predictable path from their maximum 10 light minute range and blast it before it breaks orbit and flies at them.

As for why the projectile still does nothing the peak shields on a troop transport are 7e22 W. so you would need to fire 700 of those in a second to drop the shields on an outdated transport.

Soontir C'boath take note. That is how you answer a question. Fuckface.

@Norade. Good answer. However this is the same problem the ISD would have with any FTL attack.
I'm getting my shield numbers here:http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield2.html

If I'm too low, then OK. Ramp up the projectile power. The amount of kinetic energy doesn't really reach a limit, unlike lasers.

Back to the tracking issue. Detecting and shooting are using different equipment. Your detection is using an unknown to me technology. Call it hyperwave or whatever. Not important. We assume the detection is near perfect.

You can detect the target all day.
You need to get a range, relative bearing in at least three axis, and speed. All the while, it will try to evade you, spoof your TMA, and drop decoys. This assumes a single shot. Realistically, since these are probably reusable when not impacted, you can spam them all day.

For arguments sake, we'll call it one silver bullet impacter, up against perfect detection and perfectTMA.

If you manage to get a targeting solution, you still only have part of the problem.
The problem can be described as "Mike Tyson Vs. House Fly (where house fly has a neurotoxin)"

The simple fact is, your barrels are moving too slow to get this thing at short range.
It's relative bearing rate is going to slew so fast, you won't be able to shoot it down.
Your shooting technology is using a turreted barrel which tracks slower than light.
Your ISD is shooting a "Turbo Laser" bolt which does not have obvious FTL velocity.
I'm using this page for the speed reference: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... Beam2.html

Your best bet, would be to have your turbo lasers arranged in a strip similar to phased array radar.
But. They're not. They operate like barreled guns. It gives them a finite speed.
Realistically, with that setup, you'de have a problem shooting a target at C. let alone FTL.
I'm not saying it's impossible. Only unlikely. Very very very unlikely.

[Sea Skimmer]

If you wanted to hit an FTL target with something like a turbolaser you wouldn’t try to track it. You’d do what infantry are supposed to do when shooting at fast moving aircraft. Predict a point it will pass through, and have all weapons aim at one point and fill it with a barrage. Given a dense enough cone of fire you will score hits, in fact with perfect tracking and weapons accuracy you might have every single shot hit a big target from one salvo. You only get one engagement opportunity, but that’s more or less a given in a sublight vs. FTL matchup, unless the FTL target comes directly at you.

[Uncluttered]

The Millennium Falcon is a small freighter vessel. While in Star Trek (DS9 comes to mind), they regularly miss against other capital ships. If you cannot understand the difference in the size profile of the targets, you're a fucking idiot. Especially when the Millennium Falcon was actually jinking pretty good while ST ships' maneuverability are of an obese bitch.

......
The Falcon at its greatest length is 34 meters long. The workhorse of Starfleet, the Excelsior class vessels are 437 meters and has shit maneuverability. Can you understand the difference now, dumbass?

Where to begin. The falcon can jink all day. I wasn never talking about the falcon.
I was stating that ISDs are not infalible. They miss. I only thought I should state that because of idiot fanboys like you, who would try to claim they never miss.

You have to consider the transit time from the binary stars to wherever you're taking it to defend. Considering the huge disparity in FTL speeds between the two, it will hardly matter when the Imperial fleet decides to BDZ Earth and be on its way.

ANOTHER straw man. You must be stop doing this to yourself or you'll go blind.
(Disclaimer in case you are really blind: Insult assumes you are not yet blind and stupid, only stupid.)
Once again and I'll type very slowly so you can read with your mouth moving.
The binary/neutron/blackhole gravity well, is the fucking factory.
When you toast a poptart, they don't deliver you the poptart from the toaster factory.

You haven't shown if that projectile can be accurate and fast enough to even be on target on an ISD

It's fast enough as a planetary defence. The ISD has to come out of hyperspace for it to attack. Meanwhile, the device is essentially a torpedo moving at FTL. It's faster than the ISD, and faster than it's guns can slew, even though the ISD might be able to get good TMA on it.

and considering it's your device that we've seen no Trek race use that you're pimping

Considering the device was stated to be hypothetical, I fail to see a problem with a hypothetical argument. Nice try idiot.
Sadly, shitheads like you are the reason why I had to explain how to fucking make one.
Even if you didn't want to build a special "warp treadmill" to contain it in one place you can do it with a shuttle a tractor beam, and the ol "extending the warp bubble" trick.
You lose a little finess, but all those tech are trek canon.

, it's up to you to convince me.

No. It's up to me me to convince a person of reasonable competance. You wouldn't pass a fucking turing test.

Anyway, Norade already covered it.

Not quite to my satisfaction, but he did a hell of a lot better job than you did. He's also demonstrated better reading comprehension than you.

I already did, fuckface.

Read the rules, noob. The Rules

No more straw men ok. I have enough things to burn.
I never complained about the insult. I was annoyed that the insult was accompanied by nothing substantial. Please don't try to quote board rules to this "noob". It just makes you look more pathetic.
I never claimed you broke a rule. I only claimed you are useless because you contribute nothing.
As of this line, you've wasted 15 minutes of my time.
I'll never get those 15 minutes back. So Fuck You.

[Uncluttered]

Yes, and FTL doesn't result in time travel, you motherless dumbfuck hick. We have OBSERVED FTL Phenomena, you know that right?

Fascinating. Could you please provide some links or references. For some reason when I search for it, I get articles declaring it to be an illusion? However, science marches on.

You're obviously not aware that we've observed part of a light pulse that moved at greater than c, but some of it lagged behind mean the information was still only readable at c.

Still not real FTL. It's just group motion. Anyhow, it's not the kind of FTL we like to play with here.

[Uncluttered]

If you wanted to hit an FTL target with something like a turbolaser you wouldn’t try to track it. You’d do what infantry are supposed to do when shooting at fast moving aircraft. Predict a point it will pass through, and have all weapons aim at one point and fill it with a barrage. Given a dense enough cone of fire you will score hits, in fact with perfect tracking and weapons accuracy you might have every single shot hit a big target from one salvo. You only get one engagement opportunity, but that’s more or less a given in a sublight vs. FTL matchup, unless the FTL target comes directly at you.

Good answer. If you don't mind, I'll tell you why it's not 100% relevent.

The problem is, that your rifleman isn't trying to fire while he's restrained. The turrets of a star destroyer are restrained by relativity. They might get off a lucky shot, but they will never be able to follow as fast as an FTL projectile can tack across relative bearing.

Your best bet, is like you said, to try and predict the relative motion of the projectile. If your projectile is evading, in a truly random motion, then good luck. Really. Luck will be the decisive factor.

I designed this as a hypothetical defensive weapon for this reason. At long range, the empire can simply hyperspace away or spam the corridor.
This would be a defensive weapon. The ISD has to attack your habitat.
At short range, the warp style FTL has some small advantanges.
1. It's FTL with realtime manuevering. Mostly, the warp field is just used as a combined storage canister/launchtube/booster.
2. The warp field is arguably less affected by gravity wells. (LESS |= NOT) The interdictor might be a decent defence, but I'm starting to doubt the ISD's infallibility to defend against C projectiles too.
3. The warp field is capable of carrying things like this projectile via the mass lightening property. The same property which makes warp kamikaze futile. It's one or the other I'm afraid.

[Norade]

An ISD has FTL sensors and given that your projectile is moving in an orbit all the ISD needs to do is get a bead on a target moving at a predictable path from their maximum 10 light minute range and blast it before it breaks orbit and flies at them.

As for why the projectile still does nothing the peak shields on a troop transport are 7e22 W. so you would need to fire 700 of those in a second to drop the shields on an outdated transport.

@Norade. Good answer. However this is the same problem the ISD would have with any FTL attack.
I'm getting my shield numbers here:http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield2.html

If I'm too low, then OK. Ramp up the projectile power. The amount of kinetic energy doesn't really reach a limit, unlike lasers.

First off, try getting your numbers from a cannon source next time so you can avoid looking like a tool. Secondly, kinetic energy can reach a limit as eventually you get to the point where your object requires too much energy to keep accelerating even with warp technology at that point you need to add in more mass and there are hard limits to how much mass a ship can move at a reasonable speed.

Back to the tracking issue. Detecting and shooting are using different equipment. Your detection is using an unknown to me technology. Call it hyperwave or whatever. Not important. We assume the detection is near perfect.

You can detect the target all day.
You need to get a range, relative bearing in at least three axis, and speed. All the while, it will try to evade you, spoof your TMA, and drop decoys. This assumes a single shot. Realistically, since these are probably reusable when not impacted, you can spam them all day.

Except that maintaining a warp envelope isn't free, you still need to get your projectiles to the star you're using, and the Empire might kill you before you can even start your plan. Not to mention that having your mass change vectors would require huge forces so your mass is in a pretty set orbit.

For arguments sake, we'll call it one silver bullet impacter, up against perfect detection and perfectTMA.

If you manage to get a targeting solution, you still only have part of the problem.
The problem can be described as "Mike Tyson Vs. House Fly (where house fly has a neurotoxin)"

The simple fact is, your barrels are moving too slow to get this thing at short range.
It's relative bearing rate is going to slew so fast, you won't be able to shoot it down.
Your shooting technology is using a turreted barrel which tracks slower than light.
Your ISD is shooting a "Turbo Laser" bolt which does not have obvious FTL velocity.
I'm using this page for the speed reference: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... Beam2.html

You're a fucking retard. You fire where the object will be, you don't track it.

Your best bet, would be to have your turbo lasers arranged in a strip similar to phased array radar.
But. They're not. They operate like barreled guns. It gives them a finite speed.
Realistically, with that setup, you'de have a problem shooting a target at C. let alone FTL.
I'm not saying it's impossible. Only unlikely. Very very very unlikely.

This isn't even worth responding to.

[Norade]

Still not real FTL. It's just group motion. Anyhow, it's not the kind of FTL we like to play with here.

It's as real as FTL gets in our world. So kindly fuck off.