Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

OT: anything goes!

Moderator: Edi

User avatar
Ford Prefect
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8254
Joined: 2005-05-16 04:08am
Location: The real number domain

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ford Prefect »

wautd wrote:Edit: the show's samurai wanking aside, I was actually surprised when they tested the samurai armor and how effective it was.
Maybe, just maybe, in the zeal to debunk samurai as being the ultimate warrior, people have taken it too far in the other direction. After all not invincible does not necessarily mean armoured in paper with a sword made out of pottery.

Anyway, this show continually surprises me with how willing it is to be utterly stupid. I mean, really, Vlad the Impaler versus Sun Tzu? Vlad the Impaler versus Sun Tzu? Fucking really? Not even Spacebattles could come up with something that dumb, and they've made an art out of dumb versus battles. Maybe there can be a twist ending where Vlad shows up for the one on one duel, only to discover that Sun Tzu ignored it and burnt all his crops.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
User avatar
Stofsk
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12925
Joined: 2003-11-10 12:36am

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Stofsk »

It'd be better if Vlad turns into a vampire and Sun Tzu has to counter him with a wooden stake through the heart, with kung fu.

It would drive the show out from under the sphere of ridiculousness and into the absurd, which could actually be a good thing.
Image
User avatar
Neko_Oni
Padawan Learner
Posts: 389
Joined: 2002-09-11 09:15am
Location: Tokyo, Japan.

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Neko_Oni »

The thing that shits me most about Samurai wankers is that they focus so much on the katana. Actually samurai primarily used a kind of longbow, which much like the katana was made of crappy materials. Many samurai were horse archers, it was only towards the end of the samurai era that the whole ''sword-wanking, honor is everything'' mentality really got going.
User avatar
Ilya Muromets
Jedi Knight
Posts: 711
Joined: 2009-03-18 01:07pm
Location: The Philippines
Contact:

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Neko_Oni wrote:The thing that shits me most about Samurai wankers is that they focus so much on the katana. Actually samurai primarily used a kind of longbow, which much like the katana was made of crappy materials. Many samurai were horse archers, it was only towards the end of the samurai era that the whole ''sword-wanking, honor is everything'' mentality really got going.
Which "end of the samurai era"? Because as far as I can recall the acknowledge last hurrah of the samurai, the Satsuma Rebellion of 1877, had most of them armed with British and Russian muzzle-loading rifles, cannons, and mortars. Sounds more like common sense warfare than sword-and-honor-wankery.
Image

"Like I said, I don't care about human suffering as long as it doesn't affect me."
----LionElJonson, admitting to being a sociopathic little shit

"Please educate yourself before posting more."
----Sarevok, who really should have taken his own advice
User avatar
Neko_Oni
Padawan Learner
Posts: 389
Joined: 2002-09-11 09:15am
Location: Tokyo, Japan.

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Neko_Oni »

Ilya Muromets wrote:Which "end of the samurai era"? Because as far as I can recall the acknowledge last hurrah of the samurai, the Satsuma Rebellion of 1877, had most of them armed with British and Russian muzzle-loading rifles, cannons, and mortars. Sounds more like common sense warfare than sword-and-honor-wankery.
Sorry, you're right, I'm misremembering it badly (it's been awhile since I took Japanese history, at least that's my excuse). At least I got the main thrust right, that for the most part the katana was not as important as it is often made out to be.
User avatar
Stofsk
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12925
Joined: 2003-11-10 12:36am

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Stofsk »

What you are referring to is the Tokugawa Shogunate, which brought an end to the Warring States period. Without any wars to fight, Samurai instead devoted their time and energy into dueling with swords. Katana-wanking is just a romanticisation of that period. Samurai didn't fight battles with solely bows either - they used lances, naginatas, and swords as well. It's really during the Tokugawa era that swords came to the forefront.
Image
User avatar
Ford Prefect
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8254
Joined: 2005-05-16 04:08am
Location: The real number domain

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ford Prefect »

Neko_Oni wrote:Actually samurai primarily used a kind of longbow, which much like the katana was made of crappy materials.
Look, help me out here a little, but are you suggesting that even Japan's wood is inferior to its European equivalent?
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
User avatar
Zor
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5917
Joined: 2004-06-08 03:37am

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Zor »

Ford Prefect wrote:
Neko_Oni wrote:Actually samurai primarily used a kind of longbow, which much like the katana was made of crappy materials.
Look, help me out here a little, but are you suggesting that even Japan's wood is inferior to its European equivalent?
Yumi Bows were composite affairs made from bamboo and leather. From what i gather, however they were more powerful and they had stronger bowstrings than what was available in Europe.

Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms
WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/ind
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/tra
Terran Sphere
The Art of Zor
User avatar
Ford Prefect
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8254
Joined: 2005-05-16 04:08am
Location: The real number domain

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ford Prefect »

No, yumi incorporate bamboo into their construction, in later the 1500s-1600s as the core of the bow, but they weren't purely made out of it*. There are other kinds of wood in Japan. Not that it really matters, given that bamboo is pretty incredible.

*I've never heard of bows made out of nothing but bamboo, which might be a failure of my knowledge, but certainly the most notable designs did not have such construction.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
User avatar
Ilya Muromets
Jedi Knight
Posts: 711
Joined: 2009-03-18 01:07pm
Location: The Philippines
Contact:

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Zor wrote: Yumi Bows were composite affairs made from bamboo and leather. From what i gather, however they were more powerful and they had stronger bowstrings than what was available in Europe.

Zor
Yumi bows had draw weights of ranging from 30-90 pounds, the English longbow had a range of 80-120 pounds of draw weight. That's gonna translate to far more range and impact than the former, so I'd hardly call the yumi stronger.
Image

"Like I said, I don't care about human suffering as long as it doesn't affect me."
----LionElJonson, admitting to being a sociopathic little shit

"Please educate yourself before posting more."
----Sarevok, who really should have taken his own advice
User avatar
Spoonist
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2405
Joined: 2002-09-20 11:15am

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Spoonist »

Zor wrote:Yumi Bows were composite affairs made from bamboo and leather. From what i gather, however they were more powerful and they had stronger bowstrings than what was available in Europe.
Uhm, which era are we talking about here? Because when the yumi becomes composite is around 1550, which is approx 200 years after the era of the english longbow.
They simply do not compare in draw. With the english longbow outclassing the Higo Yumi.
This is of course for a specific reason. The assymetry of the yumi was supposed to let you fire from horseback. A limitation the english longbow cared little for. So accuracy traded for power.
User avatar
Ilya Muromets
Jedi Knight
Posts: 711
Joined: 2009-03-18 01:07pm
Location: The Philippines
Contact:

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Well, yeah. But Zor didn't specify which time period or for what use exactly, which I took to mean that he was talking about all European longbows. So, I used one of the more powerful European longbows I could think of as a counter-example.
Image

"Like I said, I don't care about human suffering as long as it doesn't affect me."
----LionElJonson, admitting to being a sociopathic little shit

"Please educate yourself before posting more."
----Sarevok, who really should have taken his own advice
User avatar
Spoonist
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2405
Joined: 2002-09-20 11:15am

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Spoonist »

-Ilya
Agreed. Nothing implied vs your response. I just thought it strange that Zor would specifically mention them being composite and at the same time try a little bit of budo wanking. :shock:
User avatar
loomer
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4260
Joined: 2005-11-20 07:57am

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by loomer »

The SS v Viet Cong weapons have been announced.

SS:
Mid Range: MP28
Short range: Mauser C96
Explosives: Schrapnelmine
Special: Flammenwerfer 35.

Okay, so, they claimed the C96 is a fully automatic pistol. This is not totally wrong - it did have a select fire variant, which was intended for sale to the East and so would probably be better as a Viet Cong option, since only the Wehrmacht used it.

The MP28 is a questionable choice next to the MP40, but I don't know enough about it's service history to comment.

Viet Cong:
Mid Range: MAT-49N
Short range: TT-33
Explosives: POMZ-2 mines and F-1 grenades
Special: Punji traps

No real comment except that really, the SS should also have a grenade.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
User avatar
Ilya Muromets
Jedi Knight
Posts: 711
Joined: 2009-03-18 01:07pm
Location: The Philippines
Contact:

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Ilya Muromets »

So they're going with pre- or early-WW2 SS and First Indochina War era VC? At least, that's what it looks like from the load out.

Although, the C96? WTF? Even during the 30s that was already falling out of favor. And the Schnellfeuer didn't have anywhere near the numbers for it to be a standard pistol for the Wehrmacht let alone the Waffen-SS.
Image

"Like I said, I don't care about human suffering as long as it doesn't affect me."
----LionElJonson, admitting to being a sociopathic little shit

"Please educate yourself before posting more."
----Sarevok, who really should have taken his own advice
User avatar
wautd
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7570
Joined: 2004-02-11 10:11am
Location: Intensive care

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by wautd »

loomer wrote:The MP28 is a questionable choice next to the MP40, but I don't know enough about it's service history to comment.
I once heared the MP40 was pretty rare compared to the MP28 but people like Thanas probably know better than me.

Saw the episode last night. Man, those 2 Germans who presented the SS arsenal looked like charicatures :lol:

I was surprised the VC lost. After all, their submachine gun was a portable AA-gun (what with effortlessly shooting down that Huey helicopter 2 miles away :lol: )
User avatar
Norade
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2424
Joined: 2005-09-23 11:33pm
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Norade »

wautd wrote:I was surprised the VC lost. After all, their submachine gun was a portable AA-gun (what with effortlessly shooting down that Huey helicopter 2 miles away :lol: )
...While being waved around wildly in a 90o+ arc...
School requires more work than I remember it taking...
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Thanas »

wautd wrote:
loomer wrote:The MP28 is a questionable choice next to the MP40, but I don't know enough about it's service history to comment.
I once heared the MP40 was pretty rare compared to the MP28 but people like Thanas probably know better than me.

It was. The MP40 was only ever issued to elite units, paratroopers, tank crews and assault infantry. The SS, which was equipped with second-rate stuff due to the Wehrmacht hating them and thinking them unprofessional rabble (an assesment which generally was true, though it changed later on), likely only used the MP40 in very limited numbers. Note that this however changed, you can see pics of the battle of warsow with whole squads of SS men having MP40s, but for the vast majority of SS men, the MP28 is a far better representative.

That said, why anybody would pick the SS and make it the subject of a glorified "TOUGH GUYS" competition is beyond me. Far better to have picked elite Wehrmacht formations like the Panzer-Lehr or the Grossdeutschland division.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
wautd
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7570
Joined: 2004-02-11 10:11am
Location: Intensive care

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by wautd »

How does a civilian his hands on a Bouncing Betty? I knew it's easy to get firearms in the states, but landmines? :shock:

Norade wrote:
wautd wrote:I was surprised the VC lost. After all, their submachine gun was a portable AA-gun (what with effortlessly shooting down that Huey helicopter 2 miles away :lol: )
...While being waved around wildly in a 90o+ arc...
Heat seaking, jet-propelled bullets?
User avatar
Norade
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2424
Joined: 2005-09-23 11:33pm
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Norade »

wautd wrote:How does a civilian his hands on a Bouncing Betty? I knew it's easy to get firearms in the states, but landmines? :shock:
Special permit? I know the Mythbusters get either people who can purchase these things to help them, or they apply to the right permits to use them. I would assume other similar programs do the same.

Norade wrote:
wautd wrote:I was surprised the VC lost. After all, their submachine gun was a portable AA-gun (what with effortlessly shooting down that Huey helicopter 2 miles away :lol: )
...While being waved around wildly in a 90o+ arc...
Heat seaking, jet-propelled bullets?[/quote]

No wonder our southern cousins lost. The Vietcong were cheating!
School requires more work than I remember it taking...
User avatar
Shinn Langley Soryu
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1526
Joined: 2006-08-18 11:27pm
Location: COOBIE YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Shinn Langley Soryu »

wautd wrote:Saw the episode last night. Man, those 2 Germans who presented the SS arsenal looked like charicatures :lol:

I was surprised the VC lost. After all, their submachine gun was a portable AA-gun (what with effortlessly shooting down that Huey helicopter 2 miles away :lol: )
I only saw the episode today (only the third or so time I've seen this show overall), and the two SS representatives (especially that ex-German military guy) definitely came off as being arrogant wankers. I also looked up the outcome prior to watching, and even then I'm still surprised.

I agree that the Schnellfeuer was an unfair choice, seeing as the Waffen-SS never even used them to begin with as far as I know; the Walther P38 probably would have been far more appropriate. For all I know, they probably would have abused the Luger by bringing out the full-auto variant with the snail drum mag. Also, punji stick versus flamethrower? Seriously?
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.

Image
ImageImageImage
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.

"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
User avatar
Meest
Jedi Master
Posts: 1429
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:04am
Location: Toronto

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Meest »

Well get ready for a few more ridiculous comparisons. Scorpion bolt thrower vs chakram for long range, then they use the pilum for medium range vs a metal whip. There were so many contradictory statements this episode too, they say about the pilum "once it's thrown it's gone" yet for the chakram that's not mentioned and considering they carried multiple pilum. Scorpion was accurate up to 50 yards and they say it's slow to reload but they mention this is a one on one fight, so it makes sense that each battle started with a bolt to the chest, the Rajput would be out ranged. Also the final comments, "Centurions were formation fighters while Rajput where super awesome 1on1" something to that effect was pretty dumb considering they never said that about Spartans.
"Somehow I feel, that in the long run, Thanos of Titan came out ahead in this particular deal."
User avatar
spaceviking
Jedi Knight
Posts: 853
Joined: 2008-03-20 05:54pm

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by spaceviking »

Watched the centurion vs. Putjab episode… Do they ever acknowledge for these ‘tests’ the people testing the weapons often weigh a good forty pounds more then the actual users?
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by Thanas »

Meest wrote:Well get ready for a few more ridiculous comparisons. Scorpion bolt thrower vs chakram for long range, then they use the pilum for medium range vs a metal whip. There were so many contradictory statements this episode too, they say about the pilum "once it's thrown it's gone" yet for the chakram that's not mentioned and considering they carried multiple pilum.
Pila.
Scorpion was accurate up to 50 yards and they say it's slow to reload but they mention this is a one on one fight, so it makes sense that each battle started with a bolt to the chest, the Rajput would be out ranged. Also the final comments, "Centurions were formation fighters while Rajput where super awesome 1on1" something to that effect was pretty dumb considering they never said that about Spartans.
So who "won"?

Also, it is a bit idiotic to take Centurions. After all, these were the hardcore veterans or the most promising young officers, so if they wanted elite roman fighters, one of the special auxillary forces or the Praetorian guard would be better.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14770
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Re: Who! Is! Deadliest?! (Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood)

Post by aerius »

Thanas wrote:
Scorpion was accurate up to 50 yards and they say it's slow to reload but they mention this is a one on one fight, so it makes sense that each battle started with a bolt to the chest, the Rajput would be out ranged. Also the final comments, "Centurions were formation fighters while Rajput where super awesome 1on1" something to that effect was pretty dumb considering they never said that about Spartans.
So who "won"?
Rajput warrior. As far as I can tell they just pick the one with the flashier weapons and style unless it's a complete blowout for one side.
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
Post Reply