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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 05:48pm
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The anomaly cannot destroy the whole universe then if you're going to define it like that. The anomoly should only affect the parts of space which were created from the expansion of our big bang. I was assuming that's what we were talking about when we said universe. It shouldn't be able to reach alternate realities and alternate universes.


Why? If there is a portal or other connection I dont see a reason it would be confined. On the other hand I dont see a reason it would appear in another universe without some kind of connection.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 06:04pm
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SapphireFox wrote:
Quote:
The anomaly cannot destroy the whole universe then if you're going to define it like that. The anomoly should only affect the parts of space which were created from the expansion of our big bang. I was assuming that's what we were talking about when we said universe. It shouldn't be able to reach alternate realities and alternate universes.


Why? If there is a portal or other connection I dont see a reason it would be confined. On the other hand I dont see a reason it would appear in another universe without some kind of connection.


If they have to use their transporters or Q in order to get to the star wars universe then the anomaly would have no means of following them.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 06:09pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
SapphireFox wrote:
Quote:
The anomaly cannot destroy the whole universe then if you're going to define it like that. The anomoly should only affect the parts of space which were created from the expansion of our big bang. I was assuming that's what we were talking about when we said universe. It shouldn't be able to reach alternate realities and alternate universes.


Why? If there is a portal or other connection I dont see a reason it would be confined. On the other hand I dont see a reason it would appear in another universe without some kind of connection.


If they have to use their transporters or Q in order to get to the star wars universe then the anomaly would have no means of following them.


Attention, children.
What you see here is a good example of the No-Limits fallacy, as often used by creationists, trektards and other intelectual vermin.
You see, our specimen assumes that transporters can reach other universes, even tough they have a clearly established range limit and can, at best, be used to reach alterante timelines within the same galaxy.
His obviously deranged brain is unable to graps that limitation, however - or alternatively, since his sanity hinges on his laughable argument, he must reject it to preserve the collective of his remaining brain cells.

Homework:
Write twenty sentences about schooling trekkies. And don't you complain, all children in second grade have to do it.



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"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 06:15pm
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It's not that unrealistic. In episodes "Mirror, Mirror" TOS, "Through the Looking Glass" DS9, "Shattered Mirror" DS9, "Resurrection" DS9, and "The Emperor's New Cloak" DS9 we see them go to another universe by use of a transporter.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 06:16pm
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Once upon a time, at 10:30 pm local time:
LordOskuro wrote:
Claims that Q would help them do this in 5....4.....3.....


11:00 pm local:
marsh8472 wrote:
If they have to use their transporters or Q in order to get to the star wars universe then the anomaly would have no means of following them.


Image

Again, agreeing with Fina both here and here.



unsigned

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 06:18pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
SapphireFox wrote:
Quote:
The anomaly cannot destroy the whole universe then if you're going to define it like that. The anomoly should only affect the parts of space which were created from the expansion of our big bang. I was assuming that's what we were talking about when we said universe. It shouldn't be able to reach alternate realities and alternate universes.


Why? If there is a portal or other connection I dont see a reason it would be confined. On the other hand I dont see a reason it would appear in another universe without some kind of connection.


If they have to use their transporters or Q in order to get to the star wars universe then the anomaly would have no means of following them.


Facepalm MK.3 *Sigh* In the history of Trek I've NEVER seen the Federation transport a ship and I'm not even going to touch acts of Q. While I can easily accept the possibility of the alternate universe part Never have i seen the Federation have the capability of sending a whole star ship through at once.



You will see the tears of time.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 08:38pm
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I used DW's KE/RKE calculator and came up with a 63PT KE for a Borg Cube moving at .25c. While a direct ram from this would probably destroy a Star Destroyer (I think...feel free to correct me) It would certainly annihilate the Borg Cube. So, the only way the Star Trek universe can damage the mainstay of the Imperial Fleet (Star Destroyers aren't even all that tough/powerful compared to other Imperial hardware) is by doing a suicidal ship-for-ship attack. Considering the laughably small ship numbers in the Star Trek universe, Imperial losses, while present, will be relatively minimal considering that once they get wise to the ramming strategy they'll perforate any ship before it gets within 10 light-seconds!



There should be an official metric in regard to stupidity, so we can insult the imbeciles, morons, and RSAs out there the civilized way.
Any ideas for units of measure?

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali fought a 80-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.
~George Foreman, February 27th 3000 C.E.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 08:59pm
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So how exactly would the Borg cube SURVIVE long enough for a ramming attack even assuming the KE figures are moderately accurate?
Borg cubes can be killed by AQ ships in double digit numbers when a blasted Clone Wars era Wars troop transport pretty much outguns the entire Alpha Quadrant.
Do we know how Borg STL propulsion works? Federation (and by extension pretty much every other AQ/comparable tech level civilization) pretty much MUST use AMRE to get their accelerations out of fusion drives (well at least for their ALLEGED accelerations, do we have any verifiable numbers on how fast impulse drive REALLY is?)



'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kids with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 09:29pm
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I'm just working numbers off of DW's calculator on SDN and then running those numbers through a joules to gigatons conversion calculator on Accelware Conversions, I make no claim to their absolute accuracy.
But yeah, as I said, the Imps would probably vaporize them from 10 or 20 light seconds away.



There should be an official metric in regard to stupidity, so we can insult the imbeciles, morons, and RSAs out there the civilized way.
Any ideas for units of measure?

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali fought a 80-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.
~George Foreman, February 27th 3000 C.E.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-23 09:36pm
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Batman wrote:
Do we know how Borg STL propulsion works? Federation (and by extension pretty much every other AQ/comparable tech level civilization) pretty much MUST use AMRE to get their accelerations out of fusion drives (well at least for their ALLEGED accelerations, do we have any verifiable numbers on how fast impulse drive REALLY is?)

I'm assuming for this that they use an impulse drive like everyone else. Voyager has previously been said to have max impulse speeds of between .66c and .8c, although this is from Memory Alpha so someone with the episodes / movies handy might want to check them for accuracy. I've never heard of figures being given for accelerating though.

One other thing to bear in mind is that some impulse drives at least may use mass lightening to move around, which will make any such impact less dangerous. And yes, I realise that whatever the Borg cube was trying to ram would not be acting like a sitting duck :P .

takemeout_totheblack wrote:
I used DW's KE/RKE calculator and came up with a 63PT KE for a Borg Cube moving at .25c. While a direct ram from this would probably destroy a Star Destroyer (I think...feel free to correct me) It would certainly annihilate the Borg Cube.

So... 2.64e26J. The "SW v ST in 5 mins" page rates the peak shield heat dissipation of an Acclamator at 7e22W, although this is known to be less than that of an ISD or similar, and there may be other issues here (eg particle vs ray shielding and what-have-you).



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Route North-442.116; Altacar Empire, SDNW 4 Nation; Lensman Tech Analysis

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 12:05pm
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Quote:
Facepalm MK.3 *Sigh* In the history of Trek I've NEVER seen the Federation transport a ship and I'm not even going to touch acts of Q. While I can easily accept the possibility of the alternate universe part Never have i seen the Federation have the capability of sending a whole star ship through at once.


They wouldn't need to transport a ship. Just the people would get transported to somewhere like Terok Nor in the mirror universe. I wasn't even thinking about using the transporter to transport a ship. The only time I remember seeing that done is by the Voth city-ship in voyager episode "Distant Origin".

Quote:
I'm assuming for this that they use an impulse drive like everyone else. Voyager has previously been said to have max impulse speeds of between .66c and .8c, although this is from Memory Alpha so someone with the episodes / movies handy might want to check them for accuracy. I've never heard of figures being given for accelerating though.

One other thing to bear in mind is that some impulse drives at least may use mass lightening to move around, which will make any such impact less dangerous. And yes, I realise that whatever the Borg cube was trying to ram would not be acting like a sitting duck


you know a species 8472 bioship is capable of destroying a borg cube in one or two hits. This didn't save them from being collided with.

Here's a low estimate figure on how fast a borg cube can go:

In episode "once upon a time", the delta flyer had taken heavy damage from an ion storm but tom paris felt that they could outrun an ion storm traveling at 33,000 kph with their thrusters if they had more power. Keeping in mind that the delta flyer was damaged and probably couldn't travel at its optimum speed here.

In voyager episode "collective" the delta flyer was unable to outrun a weakened borg cube which only had a few children on it. A borg cube with thousands of drones on it would undoubtedly be able to go faster than this. But we can at least say that a borg cube should be able to go faster than 33,000 kph which isn't anywhere near the speed of light but still pretty fast by today's standards. If that's not enough to destroy a star destroyer I can look for something else.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 12:34pm
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Given that the Imperial Fleet moved at double-digit percentages of C during the ambush in ANH, your pittyfull 33.000 kph are meanlingless.
Oh, and furthermore, speed is relatively meaningless, given that for any ship that does NOT rely on technobabble, accelleration is much more important. So unless you can give us an acceleration figure, your numbers are useless.

(Of course, it is entirely possible that ST-ships are actually limited by their mass-lightening technology, therefore giving them pittyfull low sublight-max speeds. SW-ships are not similary limited).



SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 12:47pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
Quote:
Facepalm MK.3 *Sigh* In the history of Trek I've NEVER seen the Federation transport a ship and I'm not even going to touch acts of Q. While I can easily accept the possibility of the alternate universe part Never have i seen the Federation have the capability of sending a whole star ship through at once.


They wouldn't need to transport a ship. Just the people would get transported to somewhere like Terok Nor in the mirror universe. I wasn't even thinking about using the transporter to transport a ship. The only time I remember seeing that done is by the Voth city-ship in voyager episode "Distant Origin".
marsh8472 wrote:
Quote:
Facepalm MK.3 *Sigh* In the history of Trek I've NEVER seen the Federation transport a ship and I'm not even going to touch acts of Q. While I can easily accept the possibility of the alternate universe part Never have i seen the Federation have the capability of sending a whole star ship through at once.


They wouldn't need to transport a ship. Just the people would get transported to somewhere like Terok Nor in the mirror universe. I wasn't even thinking about using the transporter to transport a ship. The only time I remember seeing that done is by the Voth city-ship in voyager episode "Distant Origin".


First of all you do need to transport the whole ship or are you going to steal local ship the same ship THREE different times at intervals of 6 and 25 years that is assuming that the alt verse ships are even capable of performing the required task.

Secondly I haven't forgotten the events of one of my favorite Voyager episodes. If you had READ THE POST you would of seen that like the original premise of the thread confined it to the tech and capabilities of the FEDERATION not the Voth. You can see the suprise on Janeways face at her SHIP being transpoted inside another, to her it was an imposibility a moment ago. To reiterate the point the FEDERATION has never demonstrated such a capacity.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 12:51pm
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Quote:
First of all you do need to transport the whole ship or are you going to steal local ship the same ship THREE different times at intervals of 6 and 25 years that is assuming that the alt verse ships are even capable of performing the required task.

Secondly I haven't forgotten the events of one of my favorite Voyager episodes. If you had READ THE POST you would of seen that like the original premise of the thread confined it to the tech and capabilities of the FEDERATION not the Voth. You can see the suprise on Janeways face at her SHIP being transpoted inside another, to her it was an imposibility a moment ago. To reiterate the point the FEDERATION has never demonstrated such a capacity.


But you don't need ships to travel to the mirror universe. The only time a vessel was used to get to the mirror universe was when they took a wrong turn in the wormhole. The other times they used transporters to do it.

Actually the premise tells you how to destroy the star wars galaxy with federation technology. It doesn't say you can't use non-federation technology to save yourself afterward.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 01:26pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
Here's how the federation can destroy all life in the star wars galaxy using federation technology.

This is assuming that the federation have a means to travel to the star wars galaxy.

Here are the easy steps

1) Take a federation starship to the star wars galaxy. Preferably toward the center of their galaxy but anywhere in their galaxy should be fine.

2) Make it clear to any aliens that you are on a mission of peaceful exploration that way they don't consider you a threat and attack your ship.

3) Modify the vessels main deflector to emit an inverse tachyon pulse (a form of technology used to scan for temporal disturbances and to scan beyond subspace barriers) and then emit the tachyon pulse.

4) go back to federation space and wait about 6 years

5) repeat steps 1 to 3 and fire another inverse tachyon pulse at the same coordinates

6) go back to federation space and wait about 25 years

7) repeat steps 1 to 3 and fire another inverse tachyon pulse at the same coordinates

Ok now you're done. Initiating a tachyon pulse at the same coordinates in these 3 time periods should rupture the subspace barrier and create an anomaly or more specifically an anti-time reaction. The anti-time eruption will travel backward in time and grow in size until it covers their entire galaxy which then stops all life from ever forming in their galaxy.

It's possible that the waiting times in steps 4 and 6 don't need to be as long as I made them but just to be on the safe side I used the same length of time between attempts which was done on star trek.

Enjoy defeating star wars if you ever get bored and want to do this. 8)



marsh8472 wrote:
Quote:
First of all you do need to transport the whole ship or are you going to steal local ship the same ship THREE different times at intervals of 6 and 25 years that is assuming that the alt verse ships are even capable of performing the required task.

Secondly I haven't forgotten the events of one of my favorite Voyager episodes. If you had READ THE POST you would of seen that like the original premise of the thread confined it to the tech and capabilities of the FEDERATION not the Voth. You can see the suprise on Janeways face at her SHIP being transpoted inside another, to her it was an imposibility a moment ago. To reiterate the point the FEDERATION has never demonstrated such a capacity.


But you don't need ships to travel to the mirror universe. The only time a vessel was used to get to the mirror universe was when they took a wrong turn in the wormhole. The other times they used transporters to do it.

Actually the premise tells you how to destroy the star wars galaxy with federation technology. It doesn't say you can't use non-federation technology to save yourself afterward.


Your premise actually says precious little about saving your own ass. Which is why you had to use the alternate universe idea when it was made bloody apparent that the idea was suicidal in nature. Unless you can rationally explain the FEDERATION using VOTH technology especially since there in the delta quadrant and the government dislikes humans, then this is just another cheap cop-out and a pathetic excuse. The entire idea of using another cultures equipment to save your ass is weak in of itself, its like the klingons are attacked by the dominion so the klingons will start to use borg tech to save themselves. You see if you replace the names and it seems ludicrous then perhaps something is very wrong with the statement.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 01:41pm
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Oh, this is it....


I'd like to formally challenge marsh8472 to...

#1- Stop spamming up the Star Wars vs Star Trek section of the board

#2 - Drag his sorry ass over to the Colisieum for a proper 'debate'. He can post all this methods for individual Star Trek powers to fight and stop the Empire, and I'll shot them apart.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 04:19pm
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Sorry Solauren, but the reason why Thanas was making marshmellow jump through hoops was to prove himself worthy of a Coliseum debate.

Yes, that's right, Thanas was trying to help mashmellow by taking the dogpile off of him, and marshy spit on his helping hand.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 05:20pm
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LordOskuro wrote:
Sorry Solauren, but the reason why Thanas was making marshmellow jump through hoops was to prove himself worthy of a Coliseum debate.

Yes, that's right, Thanas was trying to help mashmellow by taking the dogpile off of him, and marshy spit on his helping hand.


At this rate, Marshmellow will be kicked out for trolling and evasion tactics in a matter days.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-24 07:31pm
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I've had enough with this fucking time-travel-moron board spam.



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