Evolution: A video on female beauty & image

[J]

We often speak of how the media contributes to unrealistic expectations of female body image & beauty with their ad campaigns featuring heavily airbrushed and photoshopped models. Now, you get to see how crazy it is. My god, I knew it was pretty bad but this, this I have no words to describe. Just click the link and watch the video.

http://www.dove.ca/en/default.aspx?dl=/ ... video-id=1

[Havok]

As I said in the other thread regarding the photoshopped image of a model, this is absolutely nothing new. The difference is now people are just more aware that it is being done.

Women's magazines have been lengthening necks, bodies, arms and legs, softening facial features, shaving joints, enhancing curves and breasts and just all around airbrushing for decades.

[cosmicalstorm]

Why do they even go to all the trouble of hiring anorectic models in the first place? Couldn't they simply drag a random crack addict from the street and pull the same stunt?

[Havok]

There is a false sense of prestige to being a model and being the person that shoots them in the right light, or manages to have them bend in that perfect way.

[Resinence]

To get a crack addict to look like that you would basically be doing a matte-painting or photo-collage, a bit more work than editing an already pretty model covered in makeup to cover any blemishes and shot in perfect lighting.

And Hav is right, there is a huge industry built up around the so-called 'elite' of the fashion and modeling field, decades of forward inertia towards this style of photography and publishing, it's not going to change any time soon, too many people make a lot of money and fame off it. "Normal" people are not SUPPOSED to understand how it works or what the secrets they use are, that's the entire point. If they did just take crack addicts of the street and edit them thats saying "well anyone can look like that" and thats definitely not what they want.

edit: models are anorexic/that skinny because it's rare to be naturally that small and extremely difficult to be that small through an eating disorder. Ie "Normal" people can't or won't be able to do it, so they are 'elite'.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Crazy to see how fashion images can work, but I'm pretty sure this is 2 or 3 years old.

[Vympel]

but I'm pretty sure this is 2 or 3 years old.

Yeah, this video is positively ancient, internet wise. I have no idea how it's back doing the rounds on youtube again.

It is very cool to watch though.

[Plekhanov]

Interesting add rather undermined by the fact that Unilever sell other products using techniques just like the one they're selling Dove by condemning.

[Darth Wong]

Nobody wants to hear this, but all of this is an inevitable outgrowth of capitalism. Capitalism beats communism for one reason: it pushes people to work harder, by threatening them with the nightmare of poverty and enticing them with the dream of wealth. But the whole point of capitalism is capital, ie- wealth that generates more wealth. This means that people want their investments to grow, which in turn means that all businesses are under constant pressure to create demand growth from somewhere. Sometimes it's easy (see the 1950s), because "emerging" or devastated markets are currently under-supplied. But other times, you have to generate demand growth on your own.

Enter the marketers. Marketing is based on the same principles as capitalism: it takes advantage of your dreams and fears. In order to get you to buy product, the marketer can either:

1) Entice you with an example of something you already want.
2) Convince you to want or need something you never knew you needed before.

In the case of cosmetics and other highly mature well-supplied markets, option #1 is typically saturated, meaning that the people feel they already have as much as they want. So we have to go with option #2: convince people that they need our product even if they didn't before.

So how do we accomplish this? Easy: we go back to the well of dreams and fears. Every woman dreams of being hot and sexy, and fears being repugnant and ugly. Many women already spend copious monies on cosmetic goods and services in order to move closer to the top end of this scale. But plenty of women feel they're somewhere in the middle and are content with this position: these are "future customers" in the mind of a marketer.

In order to make these future customers into actual customers, the marketer must shift their perception of where they lie on the attractiveness scale. If they think they're halfway between "hot" and "ugly", we have to convince them that they are actually much closer to "ugly", so they will feel compelled to purchase expensive cosmetic products, just to get back to the halfway mark where they feel they belong. We accomplish this by promoting impossible standards of beauty which are so far away from womens' reality that they feel they must be ugly. Presto! New customers.

This is where the unrealistic standard of beauty comes from. Given a capitalist system and a saturated market for cosmetics, it is as inevitable as civil war in Africa or fat-asses in America. The only solution? Nanny-state socialist regulation. I don't have a problem with that myself, but we all know that nanny-state socialist regulation is absolutely anathema to the American political culture. In other words, don't expect any of this to change. Ever. In fact, you should expect it to get even worse.

[Dooey Jo]

Expect it to spread to men as well. I see that they've started showing ads with some semi-old male celebrity, like Pierce Brosnan, trying to sell creams that make your skin look "not tired" or whatever. It's going to be interesting to see what that will have become in ten years or so, with an ageing "metrosexual" population.

[Darth Wong]

Expect it to spread to men as well. I see that they've started showing ads with some semi-old male celebrity, like Pierce Brosnan, trying to sell creams that make your skin look "not tired" or whatever. It's going to be interesting to see what that will have become in ten years or so, with an ageing "metrosexual" population.

Men are a classic example of "potential customers" for the cosmetics market, because so many of us are so very utilitarian about our own cosmetics. For a lot of men, "cosmetic products" = "bar of soap". This means we purchase very few of these products, and when we do, we spend very little money. Ergo, there is a huge amount of room for our consumption to increase, if they can just find the right marketing strategy.

They've tried to snag the market many times with only limited success, but they hit upon a winning formula with that idiotic "Axe body spray" bullshit, and I think the marketers will find ways to extend this strategy to other products.

[Elfdart]

According to this, black women in the US spend nine BILLION dollars every year on weaves, wigs and relaxers -and they make up only 7-8% of the population. There is money to be made if they're convinced that they have to spend so much on their hair, so the hair product makers have an interest in convincing them, now don't they?



I can't imagine how much money is made by convincing women, no matter how thin, that their asses are too big. Or their hair is the "wrong" color. Or they don't wear the right shoes.

[Marcus Aurelius]

They've tried to snag the market many times with only limited success, but they hit upon a winning formula with that idiotic "Axe body spray" bullshit, and I think the marketers will find ways to extend this strategy to other products.

The "Axe" products try to appeal directly to what single young men care about the most: their message is that you get more pussy by using them. Even though most men know that it's probably bullshit, they want to try it anyway, just in case it might work. I doubt, however, that the same direct approach can be taken very much further before it loses all credibility. Looking more beatiful and generally attractive is a much more complex concept that getting more pussy. Both are of course related to the same basic sexual needs, but female beatification attempts usually do not aim for an easier aquisition of casual sexual partners. After all, unless you are really ugly or extremely shy, most women have no trouble getting casual sex.

I have same doubts about the future success of cosmetics for men. Cosmetics have to compete with all different kinds of entrenched and sometimes probably genetics-based male desires from cars and boats to electronics and guns (where allowed), not to mention beer and such. Most people have a limited amount of money and and think that cosmetics for men will remain a similar niche products as cell phones and other small consumer electronics products designed for women: significant in their own right, but still relatively small compared to the overall market.

[TheLostVikings]

Expect it to spread to men as well. I see that they've started showing ads with some semi-old male celebrity, like Pierce Brosnan, trying to sell creams that make your skin look "not tired" or whatever. It's going to be interesting to see what that will have become in ten years or so, with an ageing "metrosexual" population.

Men are a classic example of "potential customers" for the cosmetics market, because so many of us are so very utilitarian about our own cosmetics. For a lot of men, "cosmetic products" = "bar of soap". This means we purchase very few of these products, and when we do, we spend very little money. Ergo, there is a huge amount of room for our consumption to increase, if they can just find the right marketing strategy.

They've tried to snag the market many times with only limited success, but they hit upon a winning formula with that idiotic "Axe body spray" bullshit, and I think the marketers will find ways to extend this strategy to other products.

Yup, it just like whoever marketing guy realized you could get boys to buy dress up dolls by renaming them "action figures". The trick isn't just to sell it as "cosmetics for men", but do like the Axe guys and try to remove the connection completely.

[Vympel]

Yup, it just like whoever marketing guy realized you could get boys to buy dress up dolls by renaming them "action figures". The trick isn't just to sell it as "cosmetics for men", but do like the Axe guys and try to remove the connection completely.

Oh come now. Boys have been playing with toy soldiers since well before 'marketing' even existed. All action figures are is toy soldiers which do more stuff.

[Lusankya]

I can't imagine how much money is made by convincing women, no matter how thin, that their asses are too big.

Well, marketing that one's actually quite easy, given the sheer number of different body shapes. I have a waist:hip ratio of a .65 or thereabouts, which is quite ridiculous, really, and if someone wanted to point at my arse and laugh about it, it would not be difficult for them to convince me that it's larger than usual for a woman of my size. Maybe if I didn't know from personal experience that I lose fat from my cheeks before I lose it from my arse, or if it wasn't a common feature of every woman in my family on that side*, such a tactic might make me feel as though I wasn't looking after myself in the right way and might make me consider spending money to make it "better".

And that's just one aspect of body shape. There's also "your boobs are too small"; "your boobs are too big"; "your boobs are kinda pair shaped when they should be perfectly hemispherical"; "your thighs are too big"; "your hip-thigh ratio is off"; "your boobs are two inches smaller than your hips"; "your hips are two inches smaller than your boobs"; "you have cellulite" "you have stick legs" and so on. All you have to do to reinforce any of these images it to show a picture of someone with a different body shape from the target audience and say "this is ideal". Do it twice with differently shaped bodies, and suddenly every woman has the "wrong" body shape. Do it with enough body types, and eventually you'll latch onto somebody's pre-existing insecurity.

It's a bit harder to do that with men, because there's less variety in men's body shape.

*My dad actually has a curvaceous womanly bum, despite riding his bike up to 40km/day.

[Vympel]

How about "my knees are fat".

Yeah. Really. I've heard that one. Jesus.

[Lusankya]

How about "my knees are fat".

Yeah. Really. I've heard that one. Jesus.

Exactly.

I actually used feel a bit self-conscious about my legs, because I'm slightly bow-legged, and I got this idea from somewhere (the mass-media, perhaps?) that it was "natural" for your legs to touch each other at some point when you stood with your feet together.

Then I realised that a part of it was that my legs are damned skinny, and having legs that don't touch is a whole lot better than being unable to wear skirts because you're so fat that your thighs rub together.It's actually quite funny when I buy shorts as well: assuming I manage to get something that fits both my arse and my hips, I end up with this pair of shorts that fits quite nicely around my arse, and then turns into this enormous circus tent that a couple of twigs are pointing out of.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It's a bit harder to do that with men, because there's less variety in men's body shape.

*My dad actually has a curvaceous womanly bum, despite riding his bike up to 40km/day.

Also, men usually don't care much what other men think about their looks. When a heterosexual man wants to improve his looks he does it primarily either to attract more women or please his wife (or both, with the unfortunate but still quite common in real life cheater types). The sociodynamics of beauty among women seem to be much more complex than just appearing attractive to the opposite sex. After all, there are a lot of men who like big bums (within reason of course), for example, and quite a few men don't necessarily like big breasts any better than small ones as long as the chest is not completely flat.

As for male body shape "standards": there are variations in male body shape, but their sexual value among women seems to be almost entirely cultural: for example the "tight bum" ideal fairly common in Western world does not appear to be universal and even in the West it is not considered very important by all women. Some women like muscular men but others like slim bodies. So there does not seem to be anything universal other than fat is not good. Even the dreaded loss of hair is not necessarily a sex appeal catastrophe, albeit it is still by far the most common source of insecurity among 30+ men; in fact it is probably more common worry than a reasonably sized pot belly. Combined with the fact that men don't usually care about other men's opinions (there are exceptions of course) it means that it is a lot more difficult to make men self-conscious about their looks than it is with women.

[Elfdart]

How about "my knees are fat".

Yeah. Really. I've heard that one. Jesus.

Exactly.

I actually used feel a bit self-conscious about my legs, because I'm slightly bow-legged, and I got this idea from somewhere (the mass-media, perhaps?) that it was "natural" for your legs to touch each other at some point when you stood with your feet together.

Then I realised that a part of it was that my legs are damned skinny, and having legs that don't touch is a whole lot better than being unable to wear skirts because you're so fat that your thighs rub together.It's actually quite funny when I buy shorts as well: assuming I manage to get something that fits both my arse and my hips, I end up with this pair of shorts that fits quite nicely around my arse, and then turns into this enormous circus tent that a couple of twigs are pointing out of.

Wait a minute -weren't you the one a few months ago talking about how much you love stockings? Surely your legs have something going for them if you like to show 'em off, right? My girlfriend goes on and on about how her butt is too big (it's perfect the way it is), but it's never stopped her from wearing lowrider jeans.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Wait a minute -weren't you the one a few months ago talking about how much you love stockings? Surely your legs have something going for them if you like to show 'em off, right? My girlfriend goes on and on about how her butt is too big (it's perfect the way it is), but it's never stopped her from wearing lowrider jeans.

Take it from a crossdresser: Somehow stockings and leggings are magical. It doesn't matter how bad you think your legs are, as long as they're covered in some sort of fabric they immediately become at least 50% more presentable in your eyes. I've gone through that myself and have seen it happen with enough people not satisfied with their lower half to realize it's a fairly common trend.

[Darmalus]

The hair one is interesting. What hair styles were popular before the whole hair cosmetics business took off? It shows my lack of culture when the only "old" hairstyle I can think of are 70s Afros, complete with jumpsuits and disco balls.

[YT300000]

The hair one is interesting. What hair styles were popular before the whole hair cosmetics business took off? It shows my lack of culture when the only "old" hairstyle I can think of are 70s Afros, complete with jumpsuits and disco balls.

That really depends on when you want to define the cosmetics business taking off. In the 50's, aerosol hair spray burst onto the scene, and in the 30's, most men wouldn't be caught dead without their hair slicked back with brylcreem. Companies like Elizabeth Arden and Revlon were setting up shop at the turn of the century, which would probably be your starting point.

For much of the 1800's, makeup wasn't very popular in polite society, but there was plenty of jewelery and elabourate hairstyles done up with ribbons and bows and so on.

[Lusankya]

Wait a minute -weren't you the one a few months ago talking about how much you love stockings? Surely your legs have something going for them if you like to show 'em off, right? My girlfriend goes on and on about how her butt is too big (it's perfect the way it is), but it's never stopped her from wearing lowrider jeans.

That was way, way back when I had less self confidence. Now, I am completely aware that I am damned hot. And I was never uncomfrotable about showing my legs. I was uncomfortable with standing with my feet together, because then peopled could see that my legs didn't touch at any point above the heel (which I thought was "wrong" or something).

And as Oni said: stocking are magical.

[houser2112]

I have a waist:hip ratio of a .65 or thereabouts, which is quite ridiculous, really, and if someone wanted to point at my arse and laugh about it, it would not be difficult for them to convince me that it's larger than usual for a woman of my size.

Ridiculous? The classic "perfect" measurements set of 36-24-36 has the same ratio as you do.